Any sailboaters?

teejayevans said:
PSCs are, if you choose you dates carefully you can avoid extreme weather, ie If in North Atlantic, sail in May. If you want to go fast...buy an airplane, now if they just made airplanes you can live aboard.
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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: <sniff> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

You may improve your odds of avoiding heavy weather in any given 10 day period. If you have the world's best karma, you will have a quartering tailwind for 10 days, MAX, and when it shifts, it will either drop to nothing, or stiffen on your nose. If you have crap karma, you can get hit by a Force 10+ on any week of the year.

There is no forecast that you can count on for more than 3 days.
 
I'll be going from a 170 kt plane to a 6 kt boat, it's amusing to ponder. My wife asked if I would get bored living on a boat, I laughed and said there won't be enough hours in the day to keep it properly maintained.
 
JB1842 said:
The part where you said you can't find a boat for $50. It's true, and funny.
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You cannot find a Hunter 43 worth buying for less than $50k. If I take a typical $50k Hunter 43, by the time I am done bringing it into comparable condition of one I can buy for $90k, I'll be into it for $130k and 2 years. Even the $90k one will still take some money and work. You might not always get what you pay for, but you never get what you don't.
 
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RichNY said:
I've been looking at 38' to 43' boats for extended on board use. The Hunter line appears to meet my needs. Anyone have experience with Hunter or other brands?
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Hunter equals crap, has always been the low end. They are marketed to the 'never leave the dock, but I want lots of room and cushion. You will loose big when you go to sell, no matter how good a deal you think you got on the purchase. Friends do not let friends buy Hunters or Benetaus for that matter. Find an older quality boat that has been well cared for.
 
Henning said:
:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl: <sniff> :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:



You may improve your odds of avoiding heavy weather in any given 10 day period. If you have the world's best karma, you will have a quartering tailwind for 10 days, MAX, and when it shifts, it will either drop to nothing, or stiffen on your nose. If you have crap karma, you can get hit by a Force 10+ on any week of the year.



There is no forecast that you can count on for more than 3 days.
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Think positive
You can break it up, Bermuda, Azores, people do it all the time. I wouldn't do it, don't have the stomach for it, but with modern weather forecasting services, you can avoid some of the storms (usually they are big systems, easy to predict), but yes, even in May you would need to be prepared for anything, your chances of seeing waves higher than 12 ft is 10% if you stay below 50 degrees latitude.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Hunter equals crap, has always been the low end. They are marketed to the 'never leave the dock, but I want lots of room and cushion. You will loose big when you go to sell, no matter how good a deal you think you got on the purchase. Friends do not let friends buy Hunters or Benetaus for that matter. Find an older quality boat that has been well cared for.
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Hang tight, the reality is, 95% of sail boat owners end up using their boat in exactly that fashion. If he is looking for a low-ish cost waterfront cabin to go down to and spend a few days at a time, or do the coastal/intercostal migration and the Bahamas, it's a perfectly acceptable boat. Hardware can always be upgraded.

It's a reasonable cost, good volume, decent sailing, fair weather coastal and inland boat. As long as you can get to shelter when the weather turns, even the cheapest MacGregor is going to be fine.

I would do something different, but my wants are more developed towards going to sea, exploring River and canal systems, and getting places comfortably with my crap.
 
kayoh190 said:
I'd love to get a nice 32' (or thereabouts) sailboat. Just something to tool around the coast with, maybe take to Catalina from time to time. I'm pretty sure I've talked my wife into either a boat or an airplane, but I think I still have some work to do if I plan on getting both. Well, at least not without sleeping on the boat full-time. :D
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Under the theme of "if it floats, flys or f****, rent it", before buying a sailboat to tool around SoCal waters in, you may want to check out the Marina Sailing rentals:

http://www.marinasailing.com/

In my mind, there are a lot more practical advantages to owning a plane than owning a boat, if you're only going to really use the boat a few times per year.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Under the theme of "if it floats, flies or f****, rent it", before buying a sailboat to tool around SoCal waters in, you may want to check out the Marina Sailing rentals:

http://www.marinasailing.com/

In my mind, there are a lot more practical advantages to owning a plane than owning a boat, if you're only going to really use the boat a few times per year.
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I would never buy a boat for SoCal again.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Under the theme of "if it floats, flys or f****, rent it", before buying a sailboat to tool around SoCal waters in, you may want to check out the Marina Sailing rentals:

http://www.marinasailing.com/

In my mind, there are a lot more practical advantages to owning a plane than owning a boat, if you're only going to really use the boat a few times per year.
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Oh wow - great site! Thanks for that.
 
RichNY said:
I've been looking at 38' to 43' boats for extended on board use. The Hunter line appears to meet my needs. Anyone have experience with Hunter or other brands?
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I owned a Hunter 23 for years, and loved it. Full winged keel, galley with sink and stove, and a head. I used it for extended "camping" trips on the water.
 
Henning said:
I would never buy a boat for SoCal again.
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Exactly, unless you really enjoy open water sailing and you're buying something with enough ocean-going capability to make to SD and SF Bay, there isn't a point. If you just want to putz around in Long Beach harbor, darting out for a few miles on nice days, rent it.
 
kayoh190 said:
Oh wow - great site! Thanks for that.
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The owners are good folks. They coordinate awesome charter boat excursions around the world each year too. Did a couple of those with them to BVI dozen years ago. Fun races in the summer as well.

Boats are reasonably well kept, good value.

Jeff
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Exactly, unless you really enjoy open water sailing and you're buying something with enough ocean-going capability to make to SD and SF Bay, there isn't a point. If you just want to putz around in Long Beach harbor, darting out for a few miles on nice days, rent it.
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You don't have to rent it, just go down to the marina and take one and bring it back. 99.7% chance no one will notice unless it is Memorial Day, Fourth of July, or Labor Day weekends. When I had a BN service I had 40 boats on contract, 30 of them never saw the owners in 2 years. Even if you get busted, the fine will be less than the rental cost.

The fact of California boating is, even on the warmest days, it's bloody cold.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
LOL...so true.

Not much different than the airport...
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Just leave a case of beer and a bag of weed, and most people would be okay with it.:rofl:

Seriously, it's a great example of the inefficiency of our economic model. Those resources could be in solid use if we upgraded our resource allocation model.

Boats and planes really need to be 'owned' by national club networks to be used efficiently for the people and the machines.
 
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Fearless Tower said:
Ain't that the truth. Being on the back side of the current will do that.
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People inland buy a boat on a hot summer day, then discover how cold it is, and hardly ever use the boat after that, maybe to go down and have cocktails on at the dock. Best place to get a great deal on a boat in that size range is SoCal.
 
My aviation partner has a Swan 46 for sale, sitting Friday Harbor. A seasoned world cruiser!!

PM for his info.
 
kgruber said:
My aviation partner has a Swan 46 for sale, sitting Friday Harbor. A seasoned world cruiser!!

PM for his info.
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For $90k? That would be a hell of a deal or a heck of a salvage job to do.:lol:;) Seriously though, they are deep water boats, not east coast friendly.
 
My biggest problem is with the fractional rig on the Hunters. Swept spreaders and adjustable backstays add a level of complexity that isn't there in the masthead rigged boats. Also you're flying a smaller headsail.
 
I had a catalina 30 in San Diego bay for a few years.. Got it for nothing, guy wanted out from under it, re-did the standing rig and lifelines and got 5 years of sailing out of it before the economy tanked and i got rid of it. was nice to have a condo in downtown san diego for 425/mo
 
I must admit my experience is Gulf Coast and then Caribbean but once almost bought a Hunter 42 to put in charter but none of the BVI companies wanted it they had bad experiences with them...-did not try anywhere else...it was a good deal if it had worked...my real experience is on the racing side and started cutting sails and making repairs at fourteen and put myself through University as paid crew...

I always thought a Valiant 40 or 42 would be a great cruiser...they reach like demons in heavy air with the big masthead rig...and you can still bake bread underway.
 
Warlock said:
I must admit my experience is Gulf Coast and then Caribbean but once almost bought a Hunter 42 to put in charter but none of the BVI companies wanted it they had bad experiences with them...-did not try anywhere else...it was a good deal if it had worked...my real experience is on the racing side and started cutting sails and making repairs at fourteen and put myself through University as paid crew...

I always thought a Valiant 40 or 42 would be a great cruiser...they reach like demons in heavy air with the big masthead rig...and you can still bake bread underway.
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Nobody wants you to bring your boat into their charter fleet. They want you to buy the boat through them almost exclusively, even if they don't come out and say so.

There is no sailboat of that caliber that does anything like a demon except beat the crap out of you.:lol:
 
Henning said:
You understand both of those are 4.5 knot boats right? The thing about double enders is they have a really unpleasant yawning wallow in any kind of seas unless you're pointing. It makes a lot of people sick.
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you do realize that "Sailing" means a way to go slow and spend a lot of money?

4.5 knot boat is the way to get it done.

And if the pax get sick, more better they won't want to come along next time.
 
Ok, just remember where you are going to operate, you will often be operating in currents and channels that can put you in a bind really fast with a 4.5kt, 10 ton, boat with 15hp, and you will rarely if ever sail unless you are heading to Hawaii or down the coast.
 
As mentioned prior, it all comes down to what your mission is...

Hunter/Catalina/Beneteau:Ford/Chevy/Chrysler

If you want a floating condo with lots of space, and the ability to take little trips along the coast, then any of those should serve your purpose. I like the way Beneteaus look versus Hunter/Catalina, but they're all marketed toward the same demo.

The fractional/masthead debate depends on who you've got for crew. A fractional rig will generally have a larger main and smaller foresails, so a short-handed crew doesn't have to muscle the headsail as much as they would a masthead rigged, 155 genoa (for instance) headsail.

In general, the more seaworthy a boat, the more cramped the inside gets. An exception would be the Westsail 32 like what Tom-D linked. Amazingly large interior, and a VERY seaworthy vessel, but a slug (affectionately referred to as a Wetsnail) unless you're covering a lot of distance.

The East/Gulf coasts require a shallower draft than West Coast sailing, but anything in the 4' range (or swing, shoal, shoal + bulb, etc.) should cover nearly all coastal waters (FL having some pretty tight spots).

Other brands to consider (if you're open for more aged boats still in your range) would be Pearson, C&C, Wauquiez, Cal, etc. Better built than the others, but not necessarily as cavernous inside.

Good luck and let us know what direction you go!
 
Tom-D said:
you do realize that "Sailing" means a way to go slow and spend a lot of money?

4.5 knot boat is the way to get it done.

And if the pax get sick, more better they won't want to come along next time.
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I like the Wetsnail 32, but would only consider one if I was going somewhere. It takes some wind to get going, but it will drive through all sorts of seas. Plus, you can load up everything you own, throw a couple of Suburbans on the deck, and it won't even flinch. :D
 
FlyingIsGood said:
I like the Wetsnail 32, but would only consider one if I was going somewhere. It takes some wind to get going, but it will drive through all sorts of seas. Plus, you can load up everything you own, throw a couple of Suburbans on the deck, and it won't even flinch. :D
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I wouldn't consider going anywhere in one. 4500nm = 120 days minimum ( there will be a lot of time that 4.5 kts will not be maintained), so the Marquesas would be 4 months. I could split it into 2 2.5 month legs by stopping in Hawaii.

There's a reason they are all cheap and in great condition. People think "Oh, this boat is great, safe as it can be." But then they get caught in enough storms to realize that having a boat that can take that much more abuse than you can is of limited value. The big disadvantage that is found is your exposure to weather. At 4.5 kts, you are taking whatever comes your way, you aren't getting out of the way of anything, there is no such thing as "weather routing" at 4.5 kts.

They are great dock side condos for people who want to talk about Bluewater sailing.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Ah, the infamous Wetsnail. They're called that for a reason, but hey, you're retired and not in a hurry.
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There is no prefect sailboat. just people that have spent enough money to think they finally have one.

Here in Puget Sound and the San Juan Is, there is no problem using the double enders, They sail well. and will do the blue water between here and Seward AK. There are no sailboats that will do the inland water ways up the coast during the tides running in the opposite direction. WE must wait until the tide turns in all the passes, so why not buy a Blue water boat?
 
Henning said:
I wouldn't consider going anywhere in one. 4500nm = 120 days minimum ( there will be a lot of time that 4.5 kts will not be maintained), so the Marquesas would be 4 months. I could split it into 2 2.5 month legs by stopping in Hawaii.
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There is no way in hell I'd do Deep blue water in any thing less than 1000' with air service on the roof.
Inter island gunkholing in a 4.5k boat is no problem.
 
Henning said:
I wouldn't consider going anywhere in one. 4500nm = 120 days minimum ( there will be a lot of time that 4.5 kts will not be maintained), so the Marquesas would be 4 months. I could split it into 2 2.5 month legs by stopping in Hawaii.

There's a reason they are all cheap and in great condition. People think "Oh, this boat is great, safe as it can be." But then they get caught in enough storms to realize that having a boat that can take that much more abuse than you can is of limited value. The big disadvantage that is found is your exposure to weather. At 4.5 kts, you are taking whatever comes your way, you aren't getting out of the way of anything, there is no such thing as "weather routing" at 4.5 kts.

They are great dock side condos for people who want to talk about Bluewater sailing.
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Saraband (Westsail 32) won the Pacific Cup in '88.

The heavy displacement lets it power through some pretty big weather. I'd choose it over a lot of other 32-footers boats if I was crossing some blue.

I only see one or two racing around here, but they race bone stock - no mylar or carbon sails - and manage 5.5+ in the light winds we have around here.

Also, there's not going to be much getting around weather in the majority of sailing vessels on the water right now. Unless you're in the 70+ foot range (outside of purpose-built ocean racers), you're not going to see averages over about 15kts on a perfect day.

Anyhow, no use arguing sailing speeds on here. There's SailingAnarchy for that.
 
Tom-D said:
There is no prefect sailboat. just people that have spent enough money to think they finally have one.

Here in Puget Sound and the San Juan Is, there is no problem using the double enders, They sail well. and will do the blue water between here and Seward AK. There are no sailboats that will do the inland water ways up the coast during the tides running in the opposite direction. WE must wait until the tide turns in all the passes, so why not buy a Blue water boat?
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:rofl::rofl::rofl: The answer will become self evident the first time you get caught offshore in 45 kts of wind. The problem with a slow boat is you have to stand offshore to give you leeway in a storm so you don't end up on the rocks. This means you're going to ride out the storms. While double Enders are good to protect themselves, they don't do well at protecting the occupants except in keeping them on top of the water. The ride in a storm in a double ender is the most violent ride there is.

It like 1800-1900nm from the Straights pilot station to the sea bouy in Seward, and you will be going into the wind close hauled most of the time, so your mileage may increase by 30% and speed down to 3kts Vmg, that's 27 days. On average in the summer season you will have a major frontal system passing overhead every 3-4 days bringing 10' seas or greater right down your throat.

This is why you don't see many slow sail boats on that route, actually I can't ever recall seeing one northbound on the outside. Everyone stays inside and motors with the currents until Elfin Cove, then step across from there in a couple of jumps and cut in up at Cordova. The beauty is on the inside anyway.
 
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Tom-D said:
we do have weather forecasting now, even on the iPad.

it does rain here that is why we like a pilot house.
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Weather forecasting does no good if you can't get in in front of the storm, usually you take the first warning to stand further offshore.

Seriously, for what you want to do, you are barking up the wrong tree for you and your wife. The Gulf of Alaska is no joke, no offense, but it's nowhere for old people to be on a small boat. You WILL be tossed in the air in order for the bulkhead to smack you to the deck. Bones break. If you want a boat to go up to Alaska, think more of a commercial troller (not Trawler) hull, long, low, and skinny. Sailboats make good conversions, but these hulls are the wrong shape.

I'm trying to work a deal right now on an O'Day 37 for a 425hp conversion to a M/Y
 
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