Any of you Experimental types comply with this

Discussion in 'Change to my Frequency...' started by Ravioli, Feb 22, 2021.

  1. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    § 91.319 (d) 3
     
  2. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Pattern Altitude

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    (d) Each person operating an aircraft that has an experimental certificate shall -


    (3) Notify the control tower of the experimental nature of the aircraft when operating the aircraft into or out of airports with operating control towers.

    Initial call up? "Blarney Tower, Experimental 1234AB"
     
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  3. steingar

    steingar Taxi to Parking

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    I thought that's just what you did in an Ex/Ab. The pilots who've flown me certainly did.
     
  4. painless

    painless Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Initial call up always “Where-ever tower, Experimental 1234...”
     
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  5. JoeSelch

    JoeSelch Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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  6. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    "Experimental Nxxxx slow mover" seems to work for me.
    If it's something that isn't so rare that no one has ever heard of it something like "Thorp Nxxxx experimental" would be better.
     
  7. wanttaja

    wanttaja En-Route

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    Last time I talked to a tower (20 years ago), I used "Fly Baby Experimental 45848". They referred to me as "Experimental 848."

    Ron Wanttaja
     
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  8. nauga

    nauga Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    yes.

    Nauga,
    who says, "yes"
     
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  9. nauga

    nauga Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Are you going to answer too?

    Nauga,
    who wonders
     
  10. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I tell them "are vee one charlie xray" Every time. I'm a scofflaw. You'd think at least one persnickity controller would call me out on it.

    As for informing passengers, I've never gotten around to it without them asking why it says EXPERIMENTAL in big block letters across the back of the cabin. Best question ever: "How's the experiment going?" I said "We'll have more data in a couple hours."
     
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  11. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach

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    There's a Boeing 737-800 based at my home field, operating under an experimental certificate. It's registered N737AS; they use the callsign "Experimental seven three seven alpha sierra." Controllers who don't recognize the callsign sometimes assume it's some sort of homebuilt bugsmasher, and hilarity ensues when they try to sequence him in the VFR pattern behind a slow mover (like me, a few days ago, and my registration also starts with 'N737...').

    The controller suggested it might help everybody out if they use a callsign like "Experimental BOEING seven three seven alpha sierra." ;)
     
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  12. Timbeck2

    Timbeck2 Final Approach

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    I see a lot of "HXB" in the radar data tag of experimentals which stands for "home built experimental." Don't ask me why the X and the B are in the positions they are because I wasn't invited to the committee that decides such things. Perhaps HBX or HBE was already taken by another aircraft? Good controllers will enter RV8, RV7 etc if it fits to give other controllers something more than just an experimental in order to judge speeds and performance but that isn't always the case.
     
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  13. DaleB

    DaleB En-Route

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    When calling ATC or tower, I use "Experimental". They occasionally ask for the type, then I'll tell them RV-12.
     
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  14. Jim Carpenter

    Jim Carpenter Pre-takeoff checklist

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    That does cover quite a speed and size spectrum, could be anything from a Pietenpol or FlyBaby to a BD-10, or even the Stratolaunch.
     
  15. tsts4

    tsts4 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Initial call “experimental RV 728TT”. After that I drop the “experimental”.
     
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  16. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I've heard that for tower operations purposes, all Van's RV models are the same. For XC's I'm specific to RV6A /G. But my point of thread is that I don't think controllers need to hear "experimental nature" for most of the popular E-AB models.
     
  17. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Pattern Altitude

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    Why?
     
  18. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I think they know RV performance as well as 172s, 310s, and Fokker 100's just fine. any other "considerations" they need beside performance?

    It's not like they're going to foam the runway and evacuate the approach course for an inbound Zodiak.
     
  19. wanttaja

    wanttaja En-Route

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    In March 1990, Sport Aviation magazine had an article about someone who installed four engines on a Lazair ultralight (it was registered EAB). He'd used "Four Engined Experimental" as his call sign. Until one day....

    I called the tower."Tower, this is 4-engine Experimental N562MX, over the VOR at 1500 feet,speed 50 knots, negative transponder, landing with Delta."

    Never, in 60 years of flying, have I had a response as fast as this one: "Say again speed." So I said, "Five zero knots." Now his reply was even faster.

    "Do you want to declare an emergency?"

    Why in the world would I want to declare an emergency; the four engines were running like clocks? I told him, "Negative emergency."

    His immediate reply was, "Cleared to land, runway 9. Be advised length of runway is 4,000 feet."

    Now why would he tell me the runway is 4,000 feet long? I only need 40 feet and if necessary, I could land on his runway, crosswise. Suddenly it dawned on me. When I told him my speed was 50 knots, he knew there was no 4-engine aircraft in existence that could fly at 50 knots! He must have thought I meant Five Zero Zero knots and a big transport, seven miles out over the VOR at 500 knots was trying to land on his 4,000 foot runway.


    In the "call the tower" aftermath, they told him never to use "four engined experimental" again....

    Ron Wanttaja
     
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  20. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Pattern Altitude

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    Looks like you are the lone ranger on this topic.
     
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  21. tsts4

    tsts4 Cleared for Takeoff

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    Well for an initial call to the “Tower” not ATC, as you already posted, it’s a regulatory requirement so I don’t understand your position— there’s no out. However, there’s also no need to use the “experimental” prefix with any other ATC facility and I never do— and I fly IFR a lot of the time.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
  22. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 Final Approach

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    I'd recite a full rosary plus my officer oath on every transmission as long as it affords me the mx savings and operational allowances it does. :D #EABFTW
     
  23. Pilawt

    Pilawt Final Approach

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    AIM 4-2-4(a)(3) suggests putting the "Experimental" notation at the end of the callsign, not as a prefix substitute for type:

    Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the prefix “N” is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha.

    EXAMPLE-

    1. Bonanza Six Five Five Golf.
    2. Breezy Six One Three Romeo Experimental (omit “Experimental” after initial contact).
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
  24. tsts4

    tsts4 Cleared for Takeoff

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    personally I would find using that as a suffix awkward. I much prefer using it as a prefix. Thankfully the option is left to the pilot.
     
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  25. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Nah, I hear plenty of RV guys on the radio not say "experimental."
     
  26. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Pattern Altitude

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    [​IMG]

    Nice try. My comment was to the replies to this thread.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2021
  27. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    “B” is a performance designation for a generic EAB. Like you, I used to enter the actual type in the computer if a well known EAB.
    A7C62078-228A-43C5-8874-B668F264BC3F.jpeg
     
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  28. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Yes, that's the recommendation. But, I omit "type" (Merlin GT) because no one on the planet has heard of it, but some have heard of the Merlin turboprop or Merlin powered warbirds and, well, yea, not me. But I have been charged the $100 "Turbine Aircraft" surcharge for my rag and tube LSA after buying something like 10 gallons of 100LL.
     
  29. nauga

    nauga Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    I'd hazard a guess that most controllers are far less anal about phraseology than anyone in the average POA comms thread. It wasn't a controller that brought it up here.

    Nauga,
    click click
     
  30. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    A few years a company in Madras, OR was turning MD80’s into Borate Bombers. They used ‘experimental.’ Caused some grief flying one into Hillsboro KHIO one day, using that, experimental, nothing else. Called up, said we’re here. Tower said do this and report there. It turned into a little bit of an air show when an MD80 came screamin into the pattern and reported ‘there.’
     
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  31. Grum.Man

    Grum.Man En-Route

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    I started off using “experimental” but felt that left too broad a spectrum so started using “Questair”. That works well at my usual haunts since most people know me and the aircraft. On one trip to Myrtle Beach the controller corrected me to use “experimental” so that’s what I use now.
     
  32. jbDC9

    jbDC9 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    This right here. It covers everything.
     
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  33. MtPJimB

    MtPJimB Pre-takeoff checklist

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    To answer the original question, yes, I've found it is most advisable to comply with the FAA regulations applicable to my aircraft. I'm a plus one for the my initial callup: "Tower, experimental RV 62MG...", then drop the experimental for all subsequent calls to that tower. Same for my initial call up to approach/departure when departing from a non-towered field if I want flight following or some other request, but in my request I'll specify type as Vans RV-6A.
     
  34. EdFred

    EdFred Taxi to Parking

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    Nothing you posted indicated you were talking solely about respondents in this thread. Try using a qualifier next time.
     
  35. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Pattern Altitude

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    :rolleyes:
     
  36. Dana

    Dana Pattern Altitude

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    On the rare occasion I go into a class D, I make the call as "experimental Hatz 205GM", and they always come back to me as "experimental 205GM." Once they realize how slow I'm going, I usually get "experimental 5GM, say again type aircraft?"
     
  37. luvflyin

    luvflyin Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Maybe not trying to work it into the Call Sign would be the better way to go. Like [RV, Flybaby, Douglas, etc etc] 12345, I’m an experimental. Tower now has been notified of the experimental nature of the aircraft per 91.319 (d) 3.

    EDIT: There’s an AIM thang like this. See post #23
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2021
  38. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot En-Route

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    Are you listening to their initial call to a tower?
     
  39. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Adding experimental to your call sign with towers isn’t important for normal ops. If the controller knows their types, then they’ll know your performance based on that knowledge. If they don’t know their types, then making them aware of your experimental nature means nothing. They don’t have different runway separation or procedures for EABs. That’s based on specific type.

    Now, making tower aware of your EAB because you require special handling is a different story. That’s a service that should really only be used in the test flight phase and not on a day to day basis. Even then, it’s really not much in the way of special handling.

    Having said that, by all means adhere to the FAR / AIM and continue to use “experimental.”
     
  40. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Or in my case, not.

    I'm sure some youtuber will report me some day, but until then it is just extra static on the freq.

    "ClassD Tower, experimental are vee six six six, inbound to land, any traffic in the area? How's your coffee, call me back okay? Love ya. Over"