Any hunters out there? Interesting article.

Let the crossbows into the muzzleloader season. Everybody wins. Especially the crossbow manufacturers I suspect those things make a tidy profit compared to bows or guns.
 
I agree there has to be a place for them, but I don't really like that they are opening up into archery season. I remember it used to be that if you were handicapped you could use them in archery season, and I agreed with that.

The argument exists that if I don't like it in archery season, then don't use it. True. But there's just something about regular guys using them during archery season while others are out there pulling and holding bowstrings that doesn't seem right.

I'm sure a similar argument took place with the invention of the compound.
 
TheTraveler said:
I agree there has to be a place for them, but I don't really like that they are opening up into archery season. I remember it used to be that if you were handicapped you could use them in archery season, and I agreed with that.

The argument exists that if I don't like it in archery season, then don't use it. True. But there's just something about regular guys using them during archery season while others are out there pulling and holding bowstrings that doesn't seem right.

I'm sure a similar argument took place with the invention of the compound.
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:yeahthat: I hunt all seasons; archery, smoke pole and gun. Cross bows can be used here during any season but I'd rather see them used only during muzzle loader and gun seasons.

I have an excellent relationship with a couple of game wardens and expressed my opinion. Their response was pretty simple: too many deer and crossbows add to the harvest count.
 
Thanks for posting that article. I enjoyed reading it. The who purist thing has fascinated me. On one had I'm a purist for certain things. On the other I do enjoy a lot of the technological advances out there.

Look at aviation for example. A purist might say tube, fabric, stick and rudder and that's all you need. I learned to fly in the early days of GA GPS usage when GA units were gray scale, had a refresh rate of about a minute and were carried in a something the size of a large shoe box. Of course I didn't learn with one I learned to navigate with with a VOR, pilotage and dead reckoning. There wasn't even a GPS in the plan. Now I really enjoy flying with a GPS, It actually enhances my experience.

As for hunting well, that's a tough one. I suspect it depends on where you live and whether you are a subsistence hunter. As for the latter if you depend on hunting to feed your family really who are we to tell someone not to use the latest technology. If your a "sportsman" then I guess that's a different story. Sounds like cross bows would mix better with gun season than Bow season.

The former issue is where do you hunt. In PA you buy tags so in some areas you can get up to 3 tags for doe. Where I am there are so many freaking deer that hunters can get unlimited tags. If an area is over run with deer does it really matter if you make hunting a bit easier? While I'd prefer the bow hunt we really need to cull the herd here.

The other issue is what is the hunting community trying to accomplish? Attract young and new hunters? If making the experience a little more comfortable by putting a cushy seat and safety bar on a tree stand so your kid is comfortable and won't fall out of a tree, does it matter. Purism is a matter of perspective and personal opinion. When does it cross the line. I'm not really sure. I know if your not disabled things like car hunting and baiting are pretty pathetic IMHO.
 
AdamZ said:
Thanks for posting that article. I enjoyed reading it. The who purist thing has fascinated me. On one had I'm a purist for certain things. On the other I do enjoy a lot of the technological advances out there.

Look at aviation for example. A purist might say tube, fabric, stick and rudder and that's all you need. I learned to fly in the early days of GA GPS usage when GA units were gray scale, had a refresh rate of about a minute and were carried in a something the size of a large shoe box. Of course I didn't learn with one I learned to navigate with with a VOR, pilotage and dead reckoning. There wasn't even a GPS in the plan. Now I really enjoy flying with a GPS, It actually enhances my experience.

As for hunting well, that's a tough one. I suspect it depends on where you live and whether you are a subsistence hunter. As for the latter if you depend on hunting to feed your family really who are we to tell someone not to use the latest technology. If your a "sportsman" then I guess that's a different story. Sounds like cross bows would mix better with gun season than Bow season.

The former issue is where do you hunt. In PA you buy tags so in some areas you can get up to 3 tags for doe. Where I am there are so many freaking deer that hunters can get unlimited tags. If an area is over run with deer does it really matter if you make hunting a bit easier? While I'd prefer the bow hunt we really need to cull the herd here.

The other issue is what is the hunting community trying to accomplish? Attract young and new hunters? If making the experience a little more comfortable by putting a cushy seat and safety bar on a tree stand so your kid is comfortable and won't fall out of a tree, does it matter. Purism is a matter of perspective and personal opinion. When does it cross the line. I'm not really sure. I know if your not disabled things like car hunting and baiting are pretty pathetic IMHO.
Click to expand...

I hunted with my father in Mississippi other than a squirrel here and there, we never killed much, I don't think we ever intended to.

I then moved to Montana and got pseudo involved in Elk hunting. 5 seasons, killed nothing. I moved back south and live out in the woods. I don't know what folks do here but it's not hunting and it's nothing I want to be associated with.

On my property line there are 2 fully enclosed treestands overlooking a planted field complete with 2 feeders on a timer wired to a camera. They roll their 4 wheelers and dogs out there, kill, back to the club house for some boozing. Failing that, they're out there every night with spotlights starting what sounds like WWIII. Then they dump their hunting dogs out that they no longer want and my wife goes out and feeds them everyday until someone eventually picks them or they're killed.

My wife coming home alone at night to find armed men in our yard is just a bonus. I wouldn't even care if they hunted on our property if they'd just give me a heads up. Having my wife encounter you in our front yard at night :no:

I've noticed this is more the norm than an exception.

As I typed this, 3 shots went off. Make that 4.
 
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Thanks for posting. That was a great article. I need to renew my subscription to The Economist.
 
bartmc said:
I hunted with my father in Mississippi other than a squirrel here and there, we never killed much, I don't think we ever intended to.

I then moved to Montana and got pseudo involved in Elk hunting. 5 seasons, killed nothing. I moved back south and live out in the woods. I don't know what folks do here but it's not hunting and it's nothing I want to be associated with.

On my property line there are 2 fully enclosed treestands overlooking a planted field complete with 2 feeders on a timer wired to a camera. They roll their 4 wheelers and dogs out there, kill, back to the club house for some boozing. Failing that, they're out there every night with spotlights starting what sounds like WWIII. Then they dump their hunting dogs out that they no longer want and my wife goes out and feeds them everyday until someone eventually picks them or they're killed.

My wife coming home alone at night to find armed men in our yard is just a bonus. I wouldn't even care if they hunted on our property if they'd just give me a heads up. Having my wife encounter you in our front yard at night :no:

I've noticed this is more the norm than an exception.

As I typed this, 3 shots went off. Make that 4.
Click to expand...

Hehe, headed for a deer/boar/coyote hunt to the GA lowcountry this weekend; I'll try not to be "that guy"!

Good article by the way. My mom was just glad I was reading The Economist.
 
AdamZ said:
Thanks for posting that article. I enjoyed reading it. The who purist thing has fascinated me. On one had I'm a purist for certain things. On the other I do enjoy a lot of the technological advances out there.

Look at aviation for example. A purist might say tube, fabric, stick and rudder and that's all you need. I learned to fly in the early days of GA GPS usage when GA units were gray scale, had a refresh rate of about a minute and were carried in a something the size of a large shoe box. Of course I didn't learn with one I learned to navigate with with a VOR, pilotage and dead reckoning. There wasn't even a GPS in the plan. Now I really enjoy flying with a GPS, It actually enhances my experience.

As for hunting well, that's a tough one. I suspect it depends on where you live and whether you are a subsistence hunter. As for the latter if you depend on hunting to feed your family really who are we to tell someone not to use the latest technology. If your a "sportsman" then I guess that's a different story. Sounds like cross bows would mix better with gun season than Bow season.

The former issue is where do you hunt. In PA you buy tags so in some areas you can get up to 3 tags for doe. Where I am there are so many freaking deer that hunters can get unlimited tags. If an area is over run with deer does it really matter if you make hunting a bit easier? While I'd prefer the bow hunt we really need to cull the herd here.

The other issue is what is the hunting community trying to accomplish? Attract young and new hunters? If making the experience a little more comfortable by putting a cushy seat and safety bar on a tree stand so your kid is comfortable and won't fall out of a tree, does it matter. Purism is a matter of perspective and personal opinion. When does it cross the line. I'm not really sure. I know if your not disabled things like car hunting and baiting are pretty pathetic IMHO.
Click to expand...

I can absolutely relate with that, and I like how you put it...mixing of being a purist, and using technology.

Hunting, for example...I would use a rifle with a scope, but I'd never get carried away with lasers, lights, rangefinders, and anything more developed really than the scope. I have a compound bow, but it's a Browning, and one of the very last compounds made of wood. It's not the fastest, not the lightest, and it's not sleek and aluminum. But it's beautiful, fun to hunt with, warmer than metal, and to me it has some "soul".

Flying...I don't care for a glass cockpit in a single engine GA airplane, I much prefer the old manual gauges, although I do like a GPS.

What's funny is thinking about these, I can't really put an explanation on where I draw these lines. Why do I like a compound over a longbow, but not the new, mini, aluminum, super duper versions?

Crossbow, in my opinion, has a place, but I don't think that place is during the regular archery season.
 
bartmc said:
I hunted with my father in Mississippi other than a squirrel here and there, we never killed much, I don't think we ever intended to.

I then moved to Montana and got pseudo involved in Elk hunting. 5 seasons, killed nothing. I moved back south and live out in the woods. I don't know what folks do here but it's not hunting and it's nothing I want to be associated with.

On my property line there are 2 fully enclosed treestands overlooking a planted field complete with 2 feeders on a timer wired to a camera. They roll their 4 wheelers and dogs out there, kill, back to the club house for some boozing. Failing that, they're out there every night with spotlights starting what sounds like WWIII. Then they dump their hunting dogs out that they no longer want and my wife goes out and feeds them everyday until someone eventually picks them or they're killed.

My wife coming home alone at night to find armed men in our yard is just a bonus. I wouldn't even care if they hunted on our property if they'd just give me a heads up. Having my wife encounter you in our front yard at night :no:

I've noticed this is more the norm than an exception.

As I typed this, 3 shots went off. Make that 4.
Click to expand...

I used to hunt in Northern Michigan, and I used a deer blind. About 4'x4'x6', built out of wood, and had a wooden bench, a furnace in it small enough to fit some sticks in and boil a tin pint of water to make some coffee and MRE, and a blanket. It kept me warm when the mercury was at 0 and the snow was flying, sitting out from dawn till dusk. However, no baiting, no feeding, I hiked about 1/2 mile to it on foot, packed some sausage, cheese, and an MRE, didn't use any dogs, spotlights, or any of that. Just a wood hut to keep warm in, really.

Again, just like the earlier post, it may not be full purist, but it sure isn't using much, really, in my opinion. No power, no dogs, no baiting, no plots, no cameras.

I don't think I could do what you explained above. It just doesn't sound like fun to me.
 
I'm surprised on all the reads, but equally surprised The Economist reported on this.

I may be a dork, but it's my favorite newspaper. It was a surprise to me that they put that story up.
 
Interesting read. I laughed out loud at this...

"In Madison, Wisconsin’s capital and a hotbed of Subaru-driving, kale-munching liberalism..."
 
TheTraveler said:
I used to hunt in Northern Michigan, and I used a deer blind. About 4'x4'x6', built out of wood, and had a wooden bench, a furnace in it small enough to fit some sticks in and boil a tin pint of water to make some coffee and MRE, and a blanket. It kept me warm when the mercury was at 0 and the snow was flying, sitting out from dawn till dusk. However, no baiting, no feeding, I hiked about 1/2 mile to it on foot, packed some sausage, cheese, and an MRE, didn't use any dogs, spotlights, or any of that. Just a wood hut to keep warm in, really.
Click to expand...

That is the part that cracks me up about hunting. On one hand you have the fanatics who pour deer-**** on themselves, spend money on odor-proof camo and then suspend themselves in a tree for hours at a time. And then there are others who cook sausage and coffee in their home-made deer-blind. I have a feeling you have more fun doing this.
 
weilke said:
That is the part that cracks me up about hunting. On one hand you have the fanatics who pour deer-**** on themselves, spend money on odor-proof camo and then suspend themselves in a tree for hours at a time. And then there are others who cook sausage and coffee in their home-made deer-blind. I have a feeling you have more fun doing this.
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Have you SEEN the ice fishing huts up north? I think hunters were just jealous. ;)
 
denverpilot said:
Have you SEEN the ice fishing huts up north? I think hunters were just jealous. ;)
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See, you can't build on the shore of a MN lake anymore, it's all forbidden, to save the ducks, or maybe the polar bears or some rare skeeter, who knows.
But you CAN park your 'ice-house' at the shore while there is no ice on the lake. Sooo, as the law has never really defined what an ice-house is, any movable structure with a hole in the floor and your name in 6in letters on the side is an 'ice-house'. Problem solved, you have your little cottage right at the dock, and the good people at the DNR in St Paul are happy :) .
 
weilke said:
That is the part that cracks me up about hunting. On one hand you have the fanatics who pour deer-**** on themselves, spend money on odor-proof camo and then suspend themselves in a tree for hours at a time. And then there are others who cook sausage and coffee in their home-made deer-blind. I have a feeling you have more fun doing this.
Click to expand...

These are two different seasons. Bow season is when everyone is so concerned about scents, full camo, up in a deer blind. It's the start of the rut, more fun, but it's also not even nearly as cold. Rifle season it's either outside, back in the tree stand used for bow hunting, or in a deer blind.

The deer blind I used to hunt in was by no means luxurious. For 8-10 hours when it was below zero, it kept you warm. I boiled water for coffee, an MRE, or packed a lunch. No cooking. A 4'x4' box, made of plywood, that kept you out of the wind. I won't call it purist, but compared to what some of the others' are describing?

It was not that long ago when I started seeing guys building them 7'x7', 12" thick framed walls filled with insulation, carpeting, propane heaters, and I know of a few who ran power to them. For ice fishing, I guess I don't see any issue. For hunting? Well...what's the difference then from just staying home and shooting out the window?
 
denverpilot said:
Interesting read. I laughed out loud at this...

"In Madison, Wisconsin’s capital and a hotbed of Subaru-driving, kale-munching liberalism..."
Click to expand...

One of the reasons I like it so much. They come up with some of the wittiest, humorous versions to write things. Still serious but with a bit of humor.
 
denverpilot said:
Interesting read. I laughed out loud at this...

"In Madison, Wisconsin’s capital and a hotbed of Subaru-driving, kale-munching liberalism..."
Click to expand...

Sure they weren't talking about Olympia, Washington? The description sounds about the same. :D
 
bartmc said:
I don't know what folks do here but it's not hunting and it's nothing I want to be associated with.

On my property line there are 2 fully enclosed treestands overlooking a planted field complete with 2 feeders on a timer wired to a camera. They roll their 4 wheelers and dogs out there, kill, back to the club house for some boozing. Failing that, they're out there every night with spotlights starting what sounds like WWIII. Then they dump their hunting dogs out that they no longer want and my wife goes out and feeds them everyday until someone eventually picks them or they're killed.
.........
I've noticed this is more the norm than an exception.
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Sounds like Texas. Many see it as an excuse for drinking beer... though in some areas the animals are fenced in, so it's not all that challenging.

There was even one ranch that set up a feeder and an internet-controlled semi-automatic gun that could be panned/tilted and fired from pretty much anywhere in the world (and marketed online). Forgotten what they charged, but when the state game warden started to raise a fuss the owners claimed it was to let handicapped hunters participate in the sport. I think it got shut down, but don't know for sure.

denverpilot said:
There's one in every State. It's Boulder here. ;)
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The People's Republic of.... :rofl::rofl::rofl:
 
TheTraveler said:
These are two different seasons. Bow season is when everyone is so concerned about scents, full camo, up in a deer blind. It's the start of the rut, more fun, but it's also not even nearly as cold. Rifle season it's either outside, back in the tree stand used for bow hunting, or in a deer blind.
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Right, but it is the same deer. In one season they will supposedly smell you a mile away unless you bathe in deer-****, the other end of the season they wont notice you if you fry up brats in your deer-blind :confused: .

I just drove into my neighborhood. Our deer are so dumb and habituated, I could spear them with a fishing spear standing out in the open in my front yard.

I really have a hard time understanding the population issues with deer. On one hand, there are way too many deer in most places and the state wildlife folks are complaining about declining numbers of license purchases (less $$ of them), on the other hand you need a math degree to understand their system of seasons, limits and firearms restrictions. It is the age of the internet. Just set a quota, give people bar-coded tags, require tagging within 24hrs at a tagging station and close the season once enough of the critters have been eradicated. Leave it up to he hunter whether he wants to use blackpowder, a rifle, shotgun, bow or dynamite.
 
weilke said:
Right, but it is the same deer. In one season they will supposedly smell you a mile away unless you bathe in deer-****, the other end of the season they wont notice you if you fry up brats in your deer-blind :confused: .

I just drove into my neighborhood. Our deer are so dumb and habituated, I could spear them with a fishing spear standing out in the open in my front yard.

I really have a hard time understanding the population issues with deer. On one hand, there are way too many deer in most places and the state wildlife folks are complaining about declining numbers of license purchases (less $$ of them), on the other hand you need a math degree to understand their system of seasons, limits and firearms restrictions. It is the age of the internet. Just set a quota, give people bar-coded tags, require tagging within 24hrs at a tagging station and close the season once enough of the critters have been eradicated. Leave it up to he hunter whether he wants to use blackpowder, a rifle, shotgun, bow or dynamite.
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I think that mixing seasons would have more of a negative effect on the sport of hunting, but it also effects the deer itself because they happen in different cycles of the rut.

Look at bowhunters...you won't find those who bowhunt sitting in a cozy blind, cooking up stuff, because it would be pretty difficult to bow hunt that way. And I think it's safe to say that those who bowhunt put a lot more time and effort into the sporting part of it. Bowhunting isn't taking it out of the box, firing a few rounds to sight it in, and going out shooting a deer.

Bowhunting happens early in the rut, and the deer are more sensitive to scent, movement, etc. During rifle season it's later in the rut, and that sensitivity drops. So there are different cycles of the rut that take place there.

Late gun season and muzzle loader season are really more for deer control in some northern areas because it's so easy to shoot one then, but I cannot speak for the south. Those seasons are late, after the rut, and it's pretty easy to bag a deer not only with the weapons, but the deer have calmed down quite a bit by then.
 
When I lived in Colorado 30+ years ago the muzzle loading season was a week long with the weekends at either end. In September. Bow season was the whole month. And muzzle loading was by a drawing. 3000 permits state wide for deer and 4000 for elk. Some drew for both. I found moving through the woods with an international orange vest and hat was no problem - deer are color blind (no flying at night or use of light guns for them :D ). I had a group of does come within 10 yards of me before I made my presence known. Yes, I can move down a trail fairly quietly. I could only take a buck, so I just shooed them off.
 
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