Bang sticks used to scare the hell out of me. We didn't use them from boats. We used them diving. As protection from sharks. I say 'we' in a general sense. I never had one, but in my mind, once you've blasted the guts out of a shark from an underwater 12 gauge, you are probably in a bad place.
All the geezers and fudds at NRA matches need a chamber flag to remind them their gun is empty, lest they have an ND. People who shoot IDPA don’t have that problem.
geezer/fudd detected Yeah, the army clearly needs ‘em too https://www.army.mil/article/119851..._detail_imperative_to_personal_weapons_safety
I'm surprised that not more folks recommenced the 30-30 lever action. It is one of my favorite rifles passed down from my dad. The 30-30 is good up to 150/200 yards. That would be fine for the hogs and for most deer hunts.
Alcohol mang. But alcohol at most got some German businesses firebombed with large spit wads fired from 50 cal BMG barrels using blank rounds and hammers (don't ask me how I know this) and uh... yeah, alcohol was involved. We didn't usually turn our weapons in to the arms room immediately after a gunnery exercise. We would keep them overnight, then clean them, then turn them in the next day. But hell, if we came back on a Friday... Do the math.
That's fair... But my point was that the ballistics of the cartridge are outdated. You get more energy and less recoil from any full size 30. I get it if you're trying to use a short cartridge so it'll fit in a standard AR. But I'd rather have a .223 than a short .45+ rifle cartridge, unless maybe I was worried about bears.
Re chamber flags, I don't think it's worth getting wound up over. I was around when they started using them for conventional pistol. It initially wasn't about safety, but speed. For a pistol match, everyone leaves their guns locked open chamber, no mag, pointed down range, before going down range to check/change targets. Most places I've been, there's a range officer that walks behind the line to check that they're clear before allowing people down range. The orange pieces of weed-eater string, which is what was first used, make checking the pistols faster...and it reduces the number of times that the range officer has to say "hey dummy, flip your pistol over", because they cleared it but left it chamber down so it can't be verified clear. I've been to all sorts of matches over the years, and as safe as people try to make them, there are still people that figure out how to screw it up. Outside of a range, would I use a chamber flag/string? Not me. But I can see it being taken as a habit, and I suppose that's not a bad thing.
Browning makes a lever action with a 4 round box magazine. Comes in many calibers including .308 This one happens to carry a 'scout' scope with extended eye relief (so I dont take my eye out). For the OPs scenario, one of those LPVO scopes or a quick mount with a reflex sight for the hogs and a scope for bambi may be a good option.
308/7.62 will work great at 250yrds for most any game, hogs included, with M80A1 ammo (7.62x51) and out of a 18” barrel, I would be delivering 1,600lbs of energy on target. Anyone for bacon? I have a 30-30, great carbine and very fun to shoot, also not bad for home defense, but past 150yrds it’s very lacking, due to the tube mags you have to have flat tip rounds, Hornady made some rubber tipped ones to improve aerodynamics, but it doesn’t change the nature of the beast, and like a bolt gun they majorly lack for rapid multiple targets like hogs, also why most pro hog hunt and chopper hunt operations use AR platforms. At the same 250yrds that 30-30 only has 863lbs of energy, which is below the bare minimum of 1,000lbs I like for decent sized game, the 30-30 also suffers 3x the bullet drop of the 308/7.62 at that range I carry daily, but for a home defense these days my go to is a PCC, ideally 9mm standard 30rd mag loaded with HST hollow points, red dot and a pressure switch flashlight. This is more or less what I have, minus I don’t have the laser setup, that crazy muzzle device, and my red dot, light and folding stock are slightly different. I also have carry pistol in my nightstand or in the living room depending on where I take it off, full mag plus one in the chamber, condition 1, the PCC is behind the door to my walk-in closet in the master bedroom, also condition 1.
You know...if they made a pistol caliber carbine in something that had better performance, like maybe 10mm, and if you had a mil-dot or other scope to help compensate for the bullet drop, it might work OK for hogs or deer out to 100 yrs. Or a normal carbine in .44 mag. I don't think any of it makes any sense for tactical or self-defense, but it could for hunting. I still like .308, though. It's really flat enough to work out to 300 yrds without a lot of concern over drop, depending on scope height, and recoil is pretty mild in even a synthetic 700. Not quiet, but we don't have that option here in NY anyway. I'm going to disagree on the humane hunting of hogs. To me, they're an invasive species, and are ok to control by any means that isn't harmful to other animals or people. I get that other people don't share the same view, and I can understand why. I kind of think the best platform for hogs might be a mini-gun chambered in 9mm or even 22LR. Explosives seem kinda silly.
PCC isn’t something I would hunt with for the most part, it’s good for the range or clearing rooms. For the hogs and nuisance animals, that’s a label the state gave them, as a human I just don’t want a animal to suffer, or a person for that matter, I don’t care about the law in that regard, they could say I could shoot it to death with a BB gun, just the code I was raised with that if you’re going to kill something do it honorably and as painlessly as possible. Fun fact, this is the translation from those Jägermeister bottles “It is the hunter’s honour that he Protects and preserves his game, Hunts sportsmanlike, honours the Creator in his creatures” *hey we getting into a MIL vs MOA debate, next thing it’ll be 45 v 9, and you’ll say something crazy like you enjoy beans in your chili
The new Ruger/Marlin 1895 lever action rifles in 45-70 are by no means dinosaurs. Yep. A cartridge from 1873 chambered in a modern lever action rifle is ideal for hunting and defense, IMHO.
The term “abomination” springs to mind, but I won’t use it because there’s obviously a buyer for every gun, no matter how far it falls from what I’d be interested in.
Get with the times, dude... Coming from the traditional hunting rifle and AR world (which I no longer own due to aforementioned mishaps), The tactical lever gun is both first and second level cool. I really like the pump action AR, too because it defeats the stupid weapons bans (autoloaders) so many less free States have adopted. I might prefer a different optic, but that one will do just fine.
I've always thought that PCC was a market promoted by the gun makers just to sell a new category of firearms to LE and sports guys. I haven't seen much purpose for it. An argument could be made that the category traces it's history back to the SAS and MP5, and that because it was easier and required less time to teach teams how to shoot accurately with a shoulder weapon than a Browning High-Power. As much as I was giving a hard time to the .45 calibers in AR, I do prefer 45 to 9 in handguns. Among other things, 9 just sounds funny. (I think it's the high frequency components. Of all the handguns I've heard, I think 22 magnum bugs me the most. Hate that sound.) My thought on humane hunting is that we do that in part to respect the cycle of life in the environment. To me, the rules don't apply for animals that aren't supposed to be there, because their existence is generally causing suffering for other animals, but I respect the views of people that treat them as any other game animal. My perspective isn't based on the game regulations, but they do align with them in this case. Beans? I do like beans in chili. Probably because I grew up with it...and that was probably because a bean/beef mix was more affordable than just beef.
Re. PCC, if I could have a full auto MP5 as a home defense weapon, I would in a second. Holding down a trigger and drawing it though a line of bad guys sure beats placing three carefully placed double taps in a row. (I joke, we didn’t actually train that way with SMGs.) Re. Beans, HELL no. They jack my system up.
I have a 9mm AR. It's main purpose was to practice offhand shooting in our clubs indoor pistol range. The indoor rifle range was restricted to bench or prone, and the pistol range was limited to pistol calibers. With the 16in barrel it is also fairly quiet as most of the powder burn is done before the bullet leaves the barrel. Outdoors you could shoot it without hearing protection. It's quiet enough that you hear the action cycling. If I get the itch, I'll buy two stamps and build a .45 AR with a 8in barrel and a suppressor. I don't have MP5SD money.
MP5 with the three round trigger. I'll make them a trade: Up the age for semi auto rifles to 21 and in exchange rescind the administrative restriction on registering new MGs.
May work well for the stated dual purpose of hogs and deer. If you need more than 4 rounds of .308 to put down a hog, it's probably on you, not the rifle. Its lighter and less unwieldy than an AR-10 and it doesn't get the Fudds wound up it you bring it to deer camp. The mags are pricey, but again, just what kind of hog stampede do you expect if one or two 4 rd spares in your coat pocket are not enough. Hogs run away the second you shoot one, they don't advance on your position in tight formation .
You need more than 4 for how hog hunts work Video is a hunting video, if you don’t want to know where bacon comes from don’t click
It’s part of what the poster was buying the gun for Also hunting noun hunt·ing | \ ˈhən-tiŋ \ Definition of hunting 1 : the act of one that hunts specifically : the pursuit of game That’s what I saw
Nah, too many selector positions. Three to four round bursts are easy enough to manage in full auto. Plus, even though you wouldn't normally garden hose a room, it's still nice to have that as an option.
That's the best reason for PCC I think I've seen. That would be much better practice than the 22LR conversions. Indoor ranges are a great thing here in the NE...not just because of the cold, but because picking up brass in the snow is a PITA. Well, when we used to have snow on the ground all winter, anyway.
Old video, not cool, guy could have taken more of them, and cleaner, with just the rifle and not the tannerite, sadly just because you can, people lack the moral compass to not know they shouldn’t
Got some time at the range with some work friends (and all sorts of toys that go bang). Shot a half dozen rounds with a Savage Axis in 6.5CM with whatever lower end scope came with it. We were only in a 50yd bay so no real trigger time at longer distances, but I had the group of rounds within 2". I don't even know that it had ever been sighted-in after it was pulled out of the box, but it seemed pretty close. The bolt was a bit stiff but that could be due to it being a fairly new, low-use gun. Not a bad option for around $399 with scope included, but one of the other guys we shot with has the Ruger American Hunter (Magpul stock/magazine) in .308 that we'll bring next time to try out. His opinion was that the Savage was a good gun for the price point but he much preferred the Ruger American (probably biased since he owns the Ruger). No AR-10 to try out, but also shot an MP5, two AR-15s, an M-16 (actually mfd by Colt), AK47, and we put down a few dozen slugs with the Mossberg for good measure. I also got to try out the Sig Sauer P365 I've read a lot of good stuff about from a CC standpoint. Shot very well for such a compact gun, with little muzzle rise so follow-up shots were consistent. Magazine spring was incredibly stiff when loading ammo, but that could just be the fact that it was brand new.
A 2” group for a long barrel 6.5 bolt hunting rifle with a scope, at just 50yrds, ether you’re shooting off handed, and not very well at that, or if off a bench that gun needs to be sent in for service.
