Any Hunters in Here?

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by SoonerAviator, Jun 8, 2022.

  1. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Bang sticks used to scare the hell out of me. We didn't use them from boats. We used them diving. As protection from sharks. I say 'we' in a general sense. I never had one, but in my mind, once you've blasted the guts out of a shark from an underwater 12 gauge, you are probably in a bad place.
     
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  2. DavidWhite

    DavidWhite Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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    All the geezers and fudds at NRA matches need a chamber flag to remind them their gun is empty, lest they have an ND. People who shoot IDPA don’t have that problem.
     
  3. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser!

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    try telling that the member of the AMU...

    I'd like to be there when you do.
     
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  4. DavidWhite

    DavidWhite Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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  5. AKBill

    AKBill En-Route

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    I'm surprised that not more folks recommenced the 30-30 lever action. It is one of my favorite rifles passed down from my dad. The 30-30 is good up to 150/200 yards. That would be fine for the hogs and for most deer hunts.
     
  6. Bob Noel

    Bob Noel Touchdown! Greaser!

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  7. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Alcohol mang.

    But alcohol at most got some German businesses firebombed with large spit wads fired from 50 cal BMG barrels using blank rounds and hammers (don't ask me how I know this) and uh... yeah, alcohol was involved.

    We didn't usually turn our weapons in to the arms room immediately after a gunnery exercise. We would keep them overnight, then clean them, then turn them in the next day. But hell, if we came back on a Friday... Do the math.
     
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  8. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    .308
    Composite stock
    Adequate glass
    OR iron:

    Hunting success
     
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  9. Whitney

    Whitney Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Agreed. 6.5C or .308
     
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  10. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    Far to much effort and money required to go hunting these days.
     
  11. Albany Tom

    Albany Tom Pattern Altitude

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    That's fair... But my point was that the ballistics of the cartridge are outdated. You get more energy and less recoil from any full size 30. I get it if you're trying to use a short cartridge so it'll fit in a standard AR. But I'd rather have a .223 than a short .45+ rifle cartridge, unless maybe I was worried about bears.
     
  12. Albany Tom

    Albany Tom Pattern Altitude

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    Re chamber flags, I don't think it's worth getting wound up over. I was around when they started using them for conventional pistol. It initially wasn't about safety, but speed. For a pistol match, everyone leaves their guns locked open chamber, no mag, pointed down range, before going down range to check/change targets. Most places I've been, there's a range officer that walks behind the line to check that they're clear before allowing people down range. The orange pieces of weed-eater string, which is what was first used, make checking the pistols faster...and it reduces the number of times that the range officer has to say "hey dummy, flip your pistol over", because they cleared it but left it chamber down so it can't be verified clear. I've been to all sorts of matches over the years, and as safe as people try to make them, there are still people that figure out how to screw it up.

    Outside of a range, would I use a chamber flag/string? Not me. But I can see it being taken as a habit, and I suppose that's not a bad thing.
     
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  13. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Browning makes a lever action with a 4 round box magazine. Comes in many calibers including .308

    This one happens to carry a 'scout' scope with extended eye relief (so I dont take my eye out). For the OPs scenario, one of those LPVO scopes or a quick mount with a reflex sight for the hogs and a scope for bambi may be a good option.
     

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  14. DavidWhite

    DavidWhite Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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    Check this out!
     
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  15. Whitney

    Whitney Ejection Handle Pulled

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    I'm loving the silence!
     
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  16. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    To me, a modern lever action is akin to putting ABS on the Flintmobile.
     
  17. Jackk

    Jackk Ejection Handle Pulled

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    308/7.62 will work great at 250yrds for most any game, hogs included, with M80A1 ammo (7.62x51) and out of a 18” barrel, I would be delivering 1,600lbs of energy on target. Anyone for bacon?

    F68DA2AE-BB89-4FB8-AD5C-7915DA387ADA.jpeg

    7CE9A43C-312B-45A9-B9AF-4F058D6F9309.jpeg

    5F30F673-1792-4C27-9F96-A8061F9E18AA.jpeg


    I have a 30-30, great carbine and very fun to shoot, also not bad for home defense, but past 150yrds it’s very lacking, due to the tube mags you have to have flat tip rounds, Hornady made some rubber tipped ones to improve aerodynamics, but it doesn’t change the nature of the beast, and like a bolt gun they majorly lack for rapid multiple targets like hogs, also why most pro hog hunt and chopper hunt operations use AR platforms.

    At the same 250yrds that 30-30 only has 863lbs of energy, which is below the bare minimum of 1,000lbs I like for decent sized game, the 30-30 also suffers 3x the bullet drop of the 308/7.62 at that range


    I carry daily, but for a home defense these days my go to is a PCC, ideally 9mm standard 30rd mag loaded with HST hollow points, red dot and a pressure switch flashlight.

    This is more or less what I have, minus I don’t have the laser setup, that crazy muzzle device, and my red dot, light and folding stock are slightly different.

    I also have carry pistol in my nightstand or in the living room depending on where I take it off, full mag plus one in the chamber, condition 1, the PCC is behind the door to my walk-in closet in the master bedroom, also condition 1.

     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2022
  18. Albany Tom

    Albany Tom Pattern Altitude

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    You know...if they made a pistol caliber carbine in something that had better performance, like maybe 10mm, and if you had a mil-dot or other scope to help compensate for the bullet drop, it might work OK for hogs or deer out to 100 yrs. Or a normal carbine in .44 mag. I don't think any of it makes any sense for tactical or self-defense, but it could for hunting. I still like .308, though. It's really flat enough to work out to 300 yrds without a lot of concern over drop, depending on scope height, and recoil is pretty mild in even a synthetic 700. Not quiet, but we don't have that option here in NY anyway.

    I'm going to disagree on the humane hunting of hogs. To me, they're an invasive species, and are ok to control by any means that isn't harmful to other animals or people. I get that other people don't share the same view, and I can understand why. I kind of think the best platform for hogs might be a mini-gun chambered in 9mm or even 22LR. Explosives seem kinda silly.
     
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  19. Jackk

    Jackk Ejection Handle Pulled

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    PCC isn’t something I would hunt with for the most part, it’s good for the range or clearing rooms.

    For the hogs and nuisance animals, that’s a label the state gave them, as a human I just don’t want a animal to suffer, or a person for that matter, I don’t care about the law in that regard, they could say I could shoot it to death with a BB gun, just the code I was raised with that if you’re going to kill something do it honorably and as painlessly as possible.

    Fun fact, this is the translation from those Jägermeister bottles

    It is the hunter’s honour that he Protects and preserves his game, Hunts sportsmanlike, honours the Creator in his creatures”


    *
    hey we getting into a MIL vs MOA debate, next thing it’ll be 45 v 9, and you’ll say something crazy like you enjoy beans in your chili ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 11, 2022
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  20. IK04

    IK04 En-Route PoA Supporter

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    The new Ruger/Marlin 1895 lever action rifles in 45-70 are by no means dinosaurs.

    Yep. A cartridge from 1873 chambered in a modern lever action rifle is ideal for hunting and defense, IMHO.
     
  21. TCABM

    TCABM En-Route

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    I’m just going to leave this here. Best of all worlds for OP
    [​IMG]
     
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  22. DaleB

    DaleB Final Approach

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    The term “abomination” springs to mind, but I won’t use it because there’s obviously a buyer for every gun, no matter how far it falls from what I’d be interested in.
     
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  23. TCABM

    TCABM En-Route

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    I’ve shot a suppressed 1894 dark that had a mini red dot. It was a hoot.
     
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  24. IK04

    IK04 En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Get with the times, dude...

    Coming from the traditional hunting rifle and AR world (which I no longer own due to aforementioned mishaps), The tactical lever gun is both first and second level cool.

    I really like the pump action AR, too because it defeats the stupid weapons bans (autoloaders) so many less free States have adopted.

    I might prefer a different optic, but that one will do just fine.
     
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  25. Jackk

    Jackk Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Federalist papers clarify the law, and a low mass BCG is a beauty to shoot
     
  26. Albany Tom

    Albany Tom Pattern Altitude

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    I've always thought that PCC was a market promoted by the gun makers just to sell a new category of firearms to LE and sports guys. I haven't seen much purpose for it. An argument could be made that the category traces it's history back to the SAS and MP5, and that because it was easier and required less time to teach teams how to shoot accurately with a shoulder weapon than a Browning High-Power. As much as I was giving a hard time to the .45 calibers in AR, I do prefer 45 to 9 in handguns. Among other things, 9 just sounds funny. (I think it's the high frequency components. Of all the handguns I've heard, I think 22 magnum bugs me the most. Hate that sound.)

    My thought on humane hunting is that we do that in part to respect the cycle of life in the environment. To me, the rules don't apply for animals that aren't supposed to be there, because their existence is generally causing suffering for other animals, but I respect the views of people that treat them as any other game animal. My perspective isn't based on the game regulations, but they do align with them in this case.

    Beans? :) I do like beans in chili. Probably because I grew up with it...and that was probably because a bean/beef mix was more affordable than just beef.
     
  27. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Re. PCC, if I could have a full auto MP5 as a home defense weapon, I would in a second. Holding down a trigger and drawing it though a line of bad guys sure beats placing three carefully placed double taps in a row. (I joke, we didn’t actually train that way with SMGs.)

    Re. Beans, HELL no. They jack my system up.
     
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  28. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I have a 9mm AR. It's main purpose was to practice offhand shooting in our clubs indoor pistol range. The indoor rifle range was restricted to bench or prone, and the pistol range was limited to pistol calibers. With the 16in barrel it is also fairly quiet as most of the powder burn is done before the bullet leaves the barrel. Outdoors you could shoot it without hearing protection. It's quiet enough that you hear the action cycling.

    If I get the itch, I'll buy two stamps and build a .45 AR with a 8in barrel and a suppressor. I don't have MP5SD money.
     
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  29. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    MP5 with the three round trigger.

    I'll make them a trade: Up the age for semi auto rifles to 21 and in exchange rescind the administrative restriction on registering new MGs.
     
  30. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    May work well for the stated dual purpose of hogs and deer. If you need more than 4 rounds of .308 to put down a hog, it's probably on you, not the rifle. Its lighter and less unwieldy than an AR-10 and it doesn't get the Fudds wound up it you bring it to deer camp. The mags are pricey, but again, just what kind of hog stampede do you expect if one or two 4 rd spares in your coat pocket are not enough. Hogs run away the second you shoot one, they don't advance on your position in tight formation .
     
  31. Jackk

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    You need more than 4 for how hog hunts work


    Video is a hunting video, if you don’t want to know where bacon comes from don’t click
     
  32. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    That's not a hunting video. The most charitable description is 'pest control'.
     
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  33. Jackk

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    It’s part of what the poster was buying the gun for

    Also


    hunting
    noun
    hunt·ing | \ ˈhən-tiŋ \
    Definition of hunting 1 :
    the act of one that hunts specifically : the pursuit of game




    That’s what I saw
     
  34. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Nah, too many selector positions. Three to four round bursts are easy enough to manage in full auto. Plus, even though you wouldn't normally garden hose a room, it's still nice to have that as an option.
     
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  35. Albany Tom

    Albany Tom Pattern Altitude

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    That's the best reason for PCC I think I've seen. That would be much better practice than the 22LR conversions. Indoor ranges are a great thing here in the NE...not just because of the cold, but because picking up brass in the snow is a PITA. Well, when we used to have snow on the ground all winter, anyway.
     
  36. Jackk

    Jackk Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Shoot a KP9, it’s a close range scalpel.
     
  37. Salty

    Salty Touchdown! Greaser!

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    That ain't right.
     
  38. Jackk

    Jackk Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Old video, not cool, guy could have taken more of them, and cleaner, with just the rifle and not the tannerite, sadly just because you can, people lack the moral compass to not know they shouldn’t
     
  39. SoonerAviator

    SoonerAviator Final Approach

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    Got some time at the range with some work friends (and all sorts of toys that go bang). Shot a half dozen rounds with a Savage Axis in 6.5CM with whatever lower end scope came with it. We were only in a 50yd bay so no real trigger time at longer distances, but I had the group of rounds within 2". I don't even know that it had ever been sighted-in after it was pulled out of the box, but it seemed pretty close. The bolt was a bit stiff but that could be due to it being a fairly new, low-use gun. Not a bad option for around $399 with scope included, but one of the other guys we shot with has the Ruger American Hunter (Magpul stock/magazine) in .308 that we'll bring next time to try out. His opinion was that the Savage was a good gun for the price point but he much preferred the Ruger American (probably biased since he owns the Ruger).

    No AR-10 to try out, but also shot an MP5, two AR-15s, an M-16 (actually mfd by Colt), AK47, and we put down a few dozen slugs with the Mossberg for good measure. I also got to try out the Sig Sauer P365 I've read a lot of good stuff about from a CC standpoint. Shot very well for such a compact gun, with little muzzle rise so follow-up shots were consistent. Magazine spring was incredibly stiff when loading ammo, but that could just be the fact that it was brand new.
     
  40. Jackk

    Jackk Ejection Handle Pulled

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    A 2” group for a long barrel 6.5 bolt hunting rifle with a scope, at just 50yrds, ether you’re shooting off handed, and not very well at that, or if off a bench that gun needs to be sent in for service.
     
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