flyingriki
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flyingriki
Need some expert advice.
Never mind.
Never mind.
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Any Engine Guys Here?
- Thread starter flyingriki
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CHTs "High enough to concern me" is not a value, could you put a number to that? Over 425°, 375°, what? What is your EGT? Fuel Flow? Horsepower = Heat, and our engines throw away 3 times the BTU's as they turn into mechanical energy. Do you have a tuned Tri-y exhaust system? How lean are you running? How rich?
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
Agreed.......
We need to see some numbers.....
The picture shows CHTs in the 440s.
He needs to get the correct prop on it before going further IMHO, and fix the egt read outs and #1cht. 2900 rpm to break in seems excessive to me. If this is a new engine he should not be leaning much at all for the first few hours. I would not fly again until you have changed out the prop and fixed the engine instruments and make sure ( calibration) they are reading correctly.
The static ground run should have told you not to run that prop on that engine.
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Now I get the picture, there is an induction, and likely an exhaust issue here.
I couldn't get his pic to go full screen earlier.....
400 degree spread among EGT's
....
400 degree spread among EGT's
....
Ted
The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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iFlyNothing
For parallel valve Lycoming cylinders at break-in with marginal cooling, that's not uncommon. My Aztec did about that. They dropped about 30F once broken in.
Get the right prop, turn up your fuel, and check the baffles. Aim for 380F once broken in.
Don't panic.
Signed,
-Engine Expert
Get the right prop, turn up your fuel, and check the baffles. Aim for 380F once broken in.
Don't panic.
Signed,
-Engine Expert
Agreed 100%.......
He needs to sort out his probes too, as they seem to be "less then accurate"...IMHO
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Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
Yes. The plane was not ready to fly, IMHO. Wrong prop and instruments not working right.
JMHO
Yes. The plane was not ready to fly, IMHO. Wrong prop and instruments not working right.
JMHO
...Not even close for a first flight...... IMHO...
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
Not even close for a first flight...... IMHO...
This is how bad **** happens on first flights.
kyleb
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Drake the Outlaw
Which electronic ignition and what advance setting are you using?
Advanced timing + new engine + high compression is a combination likely to result in high CHT's.
Advanced timing + new engine + high compression is a combination likely to result in high CHT's.
flyingriki
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Thank you for some useful feedback! I know I'll need to re-jet for the higher compression and ported cylinders. Went over the baffles and fixed a couple small leaks.
#1 & 2 are never an issue with these so not having #1 working isn't a big concern and not worth waiting another month while Dynon fixes it. Have to get numbers off the old prop to make the right new one.
Have one P-Mag running the A curve for higher compression. Mag is dialed back 1.4 degrees as recommended for cooling.
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kyleb
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Drake the Outlaw
Did you also dial back the indexing of the P-mag by 1.4 degrees? If not, your timing is driven by the P-mag which is firing before your mag.
flyingriki
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Kyle,
I don't believe they fire at the same time anyway. The Slick is normality set at 25 and the P-Mag advance is 34 to 39...?
I don't believe they fire at the same time anyway. The Slick is normality set at 25 and the P-Mag advance is 34 to 39...?
kyleb
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Drake the Outlaw
The P-mag folks have been really cagy about discussing their actual timing curves. Indications using the A curve are/were that the maximum advance is in the low 30's (34, per someone who should know). But that *should* only be at partial power and reduced MP. Surely, you're seeing high MP during break-in, so you probably aren't seeing the top of the advance curve.
In any case, retarding the timing on the p-mag should help your situation.
Since you're running the A curve, why not re-set the base timing on the p-mag to 20 BTDC, which will give you advance up to 29 degrees at reduced power settings. You can re-set it later and figure out the optimum setting once the engine is broken in.
Ted
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iFlyNothing
On a 320 I don't really have a good handle on what the fuel flows should be since I don't work with them much, but turn it up about 1-2 GPH from whatever it is.
Having the right prop is going to be important because, assuming it's a normal carb, because at full throttle you get extra fuel vs. part throttle. So if full throttle is giving you 2900 RPM and you have to go to part throttle, that might actually be hurting your temps even though you're making less power.
So, I would turn fuel up a bit, get the right prop (or constant speed), and wait on flying further until you get that sorted out.
Although many people panic when CHTs approach redline, the occasional high temp isn't really cause for concern, it's cause for action to correct the issue. Cylinder longevity is about grievances over the total life of the cylinder, not just about one particular flight. The only exception is if you get into massive detonation on that flight.
flyingriki
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Didn't look at it that way - thanks again!
Am looking for a loaner prop until I can get mine built.
The naysayers have pointed out your first flight was made using broken instrumentation and / or bad probes..... I see your #1 CHT is still -9f..
How do you know you are NOT cooking that cylinder....
.....
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jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
The naysayers have pointed out your first flight was made using broken istrumentation and / or bad probes..... I see your #1 CHT is still -9f..
How do you know you are NOT cooking that cylinder....
How does the 80% of the flying fleat out there know their not cooking a cylinder? Few have probes on every cylinder.
Jesse.......
My point was, and still is.....
If you have any kind of gauge in a plane and it is giving you bad info... It needs to be fixed ASAP.....
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
I totally agree.
Jesse, there are the circumstances under which first flights go bad and people die. I would bet a gallon of Morgan if you and I looked at the rest of the plane there are other glaring and possibly serious safety issues.
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flyingriki
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You're being totally rude Geico, stupid too. I have no concerns about cylinders #1 & 2. They are never an issue in our planes and there are 900 hours on what you seem to insinuate is a piece of crap flying with only the original one sensor each for EGT and CHT. I'm not going to wait a month to fly my 6 month engine project for one sensor that was never even there before and is not critical to the information that's important right now.
And just to prove your rude bet is total BS you'll be amazed to know several A&Ps, including two EZ builders, have inspected this 'glaring safety issue' over the years and recently and found it to be completely satisfactory. Go stick that in your pipe and blow it.
I thought you had something useful to offer but know better now and won't bother with your nonsense again. Cheerio
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kyleb
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Drake the Outlaw
You're being totally rude Geico, stupid too. I have no concerns about cylinders #1 & 2. They are never an issue in our planes and there are 900 hours on what you seem to insinuate is a piece of crap flying with only the original one sensor each for EGT and CHT. I'm not going to wait a month to fly my 6 month engine project for one sensor that was never even there before and is not critical to the information that's important right now.
And just to prove your rude bet is total BS you'll be amazed to know several A&Ps, including two EZ builders, have inspected this 'glaring safety issue' over the years and recently and found it to be completely satisfactory. Go stick that in your pipe and blow it.
I thought you had something useful to offer but know better now and won't bother with your nonsense again. Cheerio
I flew for about 20 years before I had anything more sophisticated than one CHT. More data is nice. It ain't usually necessary.
flyingriki
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Not when it's unimportant. You wouldn't understand as you don't know my installation and what matters. Also thought you had something useful to offer but was wrong again.
Hence my OP title asking for engine guys, not a peanut gallery.
PS: REALLY disappointed in both of you guys. Thought you had better thinking patterns than this. But on to the Ignored List.
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Hmmmm....
Define "unimportant".......
This guy thought his mod to his supercharger was unimportant....
Ps...That is his and his wifes blood dripping off the wreckage...
Don't let that happen you you buddy...
...Attachments
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
My single probe cht gauge in my experimental hasn't worked since the day I bought it. I also never intend on fixing it.
jesse
Touchdown! Greaser!
Hmmmm....
Define "unimportant".......
This guy thought his mod to his supercharger was unimportant....
Ps...That is his and his wifes blood dripping off the wreckage...
Don't let that happen you you buddy...
Point is a cylinder running hot isn't about to cause a catasphoic explosion. Reduced life span? Sure. But there are a a lot of airplanes running around with cylinders running hot.
Big difference between a super charger mod and a cylinder potentially but unlikely running hot. He came here for advice. If we attack all those who do so then people will quit asking for help and the net safety benefit will decrease.
bnt83
Final Approach
There was a very detailed write up in Cessna Pilots Association that was attempting to shed light on the massive ECi cylinder NPRM (pre AD for those who don't know), to summarize, the threaded portion of the head and barrel doesn't hold the cylinder together but the interference fit between the two. When overheating of that joint occurs, due to over limits CHT, the interference fit looses effectiveness and the load is applied to the threads which won't hold it for long.
It's been hot out these last few days 95F-ish, I'd expect about 430F on my hottest cylinders roughly 10 minutes into a full power takeoff and climb. 10 minutes into cruise phase everything will be below 400F.
From the Lycoming O-320 Operator's Manual,
"At Bayonet (CHT) Locations - For maximum service life of the engine, maintain cylinder head temperatures between 150F and 435F, during continuous operation."
Red line is 500F
Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
You're being totally rude Geico, stupid too. I have no concerns about cylinders #1 & 2. They are never an issue in our planes and there are 900 hours on what you seem to insinuate is a piece of crap flying with only the original one sensor each for EGT and CHT. I'm not going to wait a month to fly my 6 month engine project for one sensor that was never even there before and is not critical to the information that's important right now.
And just to prove your rude bet is total BS you'll be amazed to know several A&Ps, including two EZ builders, have inspected this 'glaring safety issue' over the years and recently and found it to be completely satisfactory. Go stick that in your pipe and blow it.
I thought you had something useful to offer but know better now and won't bother with your nonsense again. Cheerio
Let Ben & me look at your plane.
Maybe I was a tad harsh, but the facts are your EGT's are 300F apart, oil temps are hot, CHT's are way hot, and you've got the wrong prop on it over speeding the engine. Fix it before you fly it.
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flyingriki
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Geico266
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Geico266
Touchdown! Greaser!
Geico266
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Are you sure your are not the "Flyinggirllie"?
Hey, stick your head in the sand about safety WARNING SIGNS and become a statistic. The facts are your plane is not safe to fly, IMHO.
You started a post looking for advice yet poopoo the best advice you got.
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