Another "Which plane for me?" Thread

Yeti Niner Five

Yeti Niner Five

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Mar 24, 2014
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159
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Dallas
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Yeti Niner Five
I'm a relatively new pilot. I have about 175 hours and am in the middle if instrument training. While most of my training hours have been in a Cherokee and Arrow, I've had the most fun in a Citabria and Super D earning a tailwheel endorsement and spin training, respectively.

My 80% mission is just me boring holes in the sky or taking short 100-200 mile XCs. I occasionally take up one or two of my kids. (I have 3, ages 5,7 & 10). They all love to fly.

Occasionally, we'd like to take family trips, but I think I can find a Saratoga or A36 to rent for those trips. I think my preferred plane is a tandem tailwheel. I don't do aerobatics now, but the option for some "gentleman's acro" is an intriguing option.

The biggest question that I have regards the IFR ticket. Ideally, I'd like a plane that is IFR capable so that I can file and stay current when flying my XCs. I don't want to try to only use it on the occasional XC with the family in a rental. Am I nuts for thinking my plane is an IFR capable Citabria? I can have a lot of fun and stay IFR current at a reasonable cost. I wouldn't do much other than light IMC, punching through a low layer to get on top. We get that a lot here in Dallas.

So, what do the experts at POA have to say? What am I missing? Am I being realistic? Is there a market for a plane like this, or am I going to be stuck with it after I buy it?

FYI...top of price range is ~$125k.
 
Hi Yeti.

If I had your budget and desire, I would be looking for an IFR Super Decathlon, if there is such a thing :).
 
How about an RV? You can buy a really nice IFR equipped RV-8 for less than your budget.

Keith
 
Put a G-500 or Aspen and a 650 in the Super Decathalon, or rent a 172 for your IFR and have the SuperD for fun.
 
Henning said:
Put a G-500 or Aspen and a 650 in the Super Decathalon,
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Why the he11 would you do that? :dunno:

Take that money and just put it in the gas tank, you'll be way better off.

I can't think of a worse instrument platform.


Talk about flushing money down the toilet.
 
James331 said:
Why the he11 would you do that? :dunno:

Take that money and just put it in the gas tank, you'll be way better off.

I can't think of a worse instrument platform.


Talk about flushing money down the toilet.
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Because you get a solid state AHRS rather than mechanical gyros. I don't disagree that it's a poor instrument platform, but I think he should buy the SuperD since it's what he really wants and he has fun in it. I think renting for his minor IFR needs makes more sense, find a G-1000 SVT 172 to rent for those flights.
 
James331 said:
Why the he11 would you do that? :dunno:

Take that money and just put it in the gas tank, you'll be way better off.

I can't think of a worse instrument platform.


Talk about flushing money down the toilet.
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Henning said:
Because you get a solid state AHRS rather than mechanical gyros. I don't disagree that it's a poor instrument platform, but I think he should buy the SuperD since it's what he really wants and he has fun in it. I think renting for his minor IFR needs makes more sense, find a G-1000 SVT 172 to rent for those flights.
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So Henning....is it worthless expense for solid state.....since you digressed more than once in your statement?

Sounds like you agree with James...with this tap dance...:rofl:
 
TEFLONSEAN said:
So Henning....is it worthless expense for solid state.....since you digressed more than once in your statement?

Sounds like you agree with James...with this tap dance...:rofl:
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I can not determine the value of the solid state for him or not, I can only present him the options and arguments along with personal conclusion for me. I would likely equip it with a G-500 and 650 because I would take it out to the PNW on floats, and SVT is really good for heading up the inside passage below the clouds.

Economically though for his mission it would make little sense.
 
Aviat Huskys are built all tricked out for IFR. Ticks all the boxes except acro.
 
I like the idea of the RV. It might be close enough to your previous tail wheel experience and you can get one with a great IFR panel. In addition, as you expand your horizons it will make a pretty good XC machine. I would at least try to get a flight on one and see how you like it.


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I wouldn't call the acro capability a requirement. It's something that I'd like to try one day. And all else being equal, I'd like the option. But it's not really a rational limitation to set at this point.

I've considered Husky's and PA-12s and -18s. I've also looked at the Scouts. All of them are great planes. If I had to pick short-field capability over acro-capability, I'd likely take the acro. But the load-carrying capability of those planes would be really nice.

Regarding the RVs, I really like them. But there's no way my wife is letting me put the kids in anything that says "Experimental". It may be irrational, but it's reality. So, I'm focused on certified planes.

Two key questions, 1) Are there other aircraft I'm not considering? And 2) will there be a market for an IFR-equipped Citabria, SC, Super D or Husky when it comes time to sell?
 
I have no business trying to 'read between the lines' but I am anyway....

You have a young family, getting your IFR and you are looking for a tandem tailwheeler that perhaps is aerobatic?

Consider how limiting a tandam 2 seater can be relative to family trips. Even family hamburger runs.

We are no-kidders that when it came time to buy a family airplane, I was looking at a tandem tw until a wifey intervention where she asked all kind of questions about travel and comfort and where will my shoes go? (seriously, this is when the shoe thing started).

We ended up with a tw Maule. Four places means it's great for 2 and all the luggage one might want to carry. It's certified because I didn't know better at the time. It's a tw because I wanted the challenge and panache. I equipped it for what passed as basic GPS IFR at the time and got my rating in it. Took 4 adults and gave Eagle rides for 3 kids at a time when asked.

A tandem 2 seater is a great 1 person plane and can be a decent 2 person plane with limitations. It does require long periods of someone looking at the back of another.

I'm just having a hard time seeing a young family guy getting into a tandem 2 seater with any plans for family flying or maintaining an IR. Might be perfect for you but that's not self evident.
 
Yeti Niner Five said:
I wouldn't call the acro capability a requirement. It's something that I'd like to try one day. And all else being equal, I'd like the option. But it's not really a rational limitation to set at this point.

I've considered Husky's and PA-12s and -18s. I've also looked at the Scouts. All of them are great planes. If I had to pick short-field capability over acro-capability, I'd likely take the acro. But the load-carrying capability of those planes would be really nice.

Regarding the RVs, I really like them. But there's no way my wife is letting me put the kids in anything that says "Experimental". It may be irrational, but it's reality. So, I'm focused on certified planes.

Two key questions, 1) Are there other aircraft I'm not considering? And 2) will there be a market for an IFR-equipped Citabria, SC, Super D or Husky when it comes time to sell?
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That last is the point, yes, you will be able to sell an IFR Super D, however you will not get a premium for it, at least not much. People buying this platform aren't typically buying it as an IFR traveling platform.

Not considering? Avion Robyn 2160, fun side by side aerobatic tricycle, typically IFR equipped with caging gyros.
 
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MauleDriver, I appreciate your candor. My short XC is usually 1 of 2 trips...going to see family (120 mi) and going to watch a football game (~140 mi). Both are reasonable trips in those planes, but i need to give serious consideration to the 1-passenger limitation and the comfort of the backseat passenger.

Here's the heart of the problem, I know what I want to fly and it's a different airplane than the one that makes sense for the family. That's why I'm thinking of buying the tailwheel and renting the XC machine...likely an Arrow or Saratoga depending on the mission.

But, I'm trying to be deliberate about keeping proficient with the IFR skills. Maybe I need to get a VFR Super D and commit to doing one of those XCs a couple of times a month to stay IFR proficient. That brings up another question, how often will I need to fly IFR to stay proficient? Keep in mind, I'm putting my wife and kids in the plane.

And Henning, thanks. I was hoping you'd weigh in. I've always respected your input on these types of issues.
 
Sounds like you need a toy for yourself and not a family mover. If that is the case go full on toy. When the family needs to go, minivan to the rescue. All of you will probably be happier that way.
 
kmacht said:
How about an RV? You can buy a really nice IFR equipped RV-8 for less than your budget.

Keith
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Ditto. Also consider an RV-4 which is also a tandem tail wheel. The great thing RVs is their much superior performance compared to a certificated aircraft with the same engine. And parts and upgrade avionics are a small fraction of the price.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Yeti Niner Five said:
MauleDriver, I appreciate your candor. My short XC is usually 1 of 2 trips...going to see family (120 mi) and going to watch a football game (~140 mi). Both are reasonable trips in those planes, but i need to give serious consideration to the 1-passenger limitation and the comfort of the backseat passenger.

Here's the heart of the problem, I know what I want to fly and it's a different airplane than the one that makes sense for the family. That's why I'm thinking of buying the tailwheel and renting the XC machine...likely an Arrow or Saratoga depending on the mission.
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ClimbnSink said:
Sounds like you need a toy for yourself and not a family mover. If that is the case go full on toy. When the family needs to go, minivan to the rescue. All of you will probably be happier that way.
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Sounds like you know what you want. Heck, I flew single seat sailplanes for almost 20 years - not exactly the best way to make good with your mate unless she's into it and likes to drive a crew car with a 30 foot trailer. It's a high bar.
Yeti Niner Five said:
But, I'm trying to be deliberate about keeping proficient with the IFR skills. Maybe I need to get a VFR Super D and commit to doing one of those XCs a couple of times a month to stay IFR proficient. That brings up another question, how often will I need to fly IFR to stay proficient? Keep in mind, I'm putting my wife and kids in the plane.
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Forget the "staying IFR current" part. If you are flying locally in fun plane without a mission, it's VERY difficult to do. Get the rating, have a capable plane, but understand that without an ongoing IFR needy mission, it just won't happen. When you need it, with a little work you can get current and if it's ongoing, you'll figure out how to maintain it. But it probably won't really happen with the 2 place tandem fun ship because it's just not worth doing.

YMMV and no absolutes, but just want to share my experience.
 
Appreciate all of the comments. I think I've learned that I need to spend some more time considering my needs & wants. You guys have highlighted the fact that I'm really just guessing at the type of flying I'll be doing. Until now, I've spent 80% of my hours training.

I'm going to finish my IR and then see what type of missions I really fly. After that, I think I'll have a much better idea of what plane suits me best. There's no sense in rushing a decision with such a high price tag. Buying the wrong plane would be an expensive mistake.
 
Beech aerobatic Sundowner. Not a lot of them made, but they will do all your needs, albeit rather slow. Good IFR platform, hauls the family if not too heavy, and will do light acro(loop, roll, spin, Cuban 8). Way less than $125k, so leaves money left over for avionics of your choice.
 
docmirror said:
Beech aerobatic Sundowner. Not a lot of them made, but they will do all your needs, albeit rather slow. Good IFR platform, hauls the family if not too heavy, and will do light acro(loop, roll, spin, Cuban 8). Way less than $125k, so leaves money left over for avionics of your choice.
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True, not a bad plane at all. Unfortunately $125k doesn't touch an E or F 33-C.:(

An aerobatic Sundowner, if it met a 10 year plan, would be worth putting a good panel in. Roomy plane.
 
No acro, but a C180 would do everything else, good cruiser too and good IFR platform, especially one with the 520 conversion, a GNS430 and six pack.

Cessna-180-3.jpg


Maule is a great plane too.

If you can handle two seats, Id get a Glassair RG all day, get one with a nice Dynon skyview with remote transponders and radios, high speed, acro, instrument, done.

2260586.jpg


2011.12.24_-_RV-6_-_Trip_To_Oroville__Grassvalley__Auburn__9__-_Dynon_Skyview_EFIS_582.jpg
 
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180 is a really capable airplane. But I can't shake the fact that I love flying the tandems. But to be fair, I've never been up in a 180. You guys have given me a great list of planes to go explore. I think flying them and learning which is right for me is going to be a ton of fun!
 
Henning said:
You can buy a nice for less than a quarter of that.
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You know that's a 180 not a 170 right?

So you can find a 180 like I posted for 30k?!

I'll take 3.


Post em up!!
 
Yeti Niner Five said:
180 is a really capable airplane. But I can't shake the fact that I love flying the tandems. But to be fair, I've never been up in a 180. You guys have given me a great list of planes to go explore. I think flying them and learning which is right for me is going to be a ton of fun!
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For sure, go take one up for a spin!

So far I've been very happy with my 185 (just a beefed up 180).
 
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