Another grumble thread

[DavidWhite]

So here I am.....4 months until I turn 18 (actually a little less) waiting because I'm not old enough to be a commercial pilot. I've got the hours for it, I'm just not old enough. I like being able to have atleast a minute amount of control over things in my life, however age isn't one. Some days I feel like I'm 17 going on 50, getting treated like a kid gets old pretty quick. Age is such a stupid and arbitrary number, 120 days will NOT make any difference in my piloting ability.

It's just....really dumb. I can fly all night, but if I drive on the road past midnight before 6am during the week I am committing a misdeamenor.

<sigh>

 

[DavidWhite]

I suppose this wasnt really the correct forum

 

[Anymouse]

So here I am.....4 months until I turn 18 (actually a little less) waiting because I'm not old enough to be a commercial pilot. I've got the hours for it, I'm just not old enough. I like being able to have atleast a minute amount of control over things in my life, however age isn't one. Some days I feel like I'm 17 going on 50, getting treated like a kid gets old pretty quick. Age is such a stupid and arbitrary number, 120 days will NOT make any difference in my piloting ability.

Are we going to hear the same complaint 120 days before you turn 23??

 

[Anymouse]

I suppose this wasnt really the correct forum

I'm gonna register a complaint with Captain!!

 

[denverpilot]

It'll go by faster and faster every year. Don't stress. Someday you'll wish it'll go slower.

 

[ClimbnSink]

Sucks, but in the end it is minor suckage. They'll be worse. I though the driving thing was worse, dad had to drive me to the airport so I could solo a plane.

 

[HPNPilot1200]

How much right seat time do you have in your airplane? If it's not much, go fly the private and commercial maneuvers from the right seat. Good practice for your CFI training/checkride.

 

[HerrGruyere]

It'll go by faster and faster every year. Don't stress. Someday you'll wish it'll go slower.

Yes and I'm not even old by any means. Once you leave college, years feel like a couple of months.

Don't stress, OP. You should not be in such a hurry! Slow down! Take it in. At your age, there are tons of other things I would be trying to enjoy :wink2:

Man if I were 17 again... I probably would be as awkward as when I was originally 17.

 

[tonycondon]

well you get treated like a kid because you are one you wihppersnapper, noW get off my lawn!

 

[AuntPeggy]

So here I am.....4 months until I turn 18 (actually a little less) waiting because I'm not old enough to be a commercial pilot. I've got the hours for it, I'm just not old enough. I like being able to have atleast a minute amount of control over things in my life, however age isn't one. Some days I feel like I'm 17 going on 50, getting treated like a kid gets old pretty quick. Age is such a stupid and arbitrary number, 120 days will NOT make any difference in my piloting ability.

It's just....really dumb. I can fly all night, but if I drive on the road past midnight before 6am during the week I am committing a misdeamenor.

<sigh>

Sorry to say, it will make a difference. Every day older is another day wiser.

Back in the '60s there was a saying that you cannot trust anyone over 30. This saying was, of course, advocated by teens and twenties. They were right, too. Because there is a real change in how you think as you grow older.

Teens and twenties frequently say of their parents, "You just don't understand!" This is also true. Our brains have changed.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141164708

So the changes that happen between 18 and 25 are a continuation of the process that starts around puberty, and 18 year olds are about halfway through that process. Their prefrontal cortex is not yet fully developed. That's the part of the brain that helps you to inhibit impulses and to plan and organize your behavior to reach a goal.

And the other part of the brain that is different in adolescence is that the brain's reward system becomes highly active right around the time of puberty and then gradually goes back to an adult level, which it reaches around age 25 and that makes adolescents and young adults more interested in entering uncertain situations to seek out and try to find whether there might be a possibility of gaining something from those situations.

 

[Skip Miller]

So here I am.....4 months until I turn 18 (actually a little less) waiting because I'm not old enough to be a commercial pilot.

Yer not old enough to rent a car, either. And you won't be for several years.

Suckage caused by the thousands of jerks your age who go out and play bumper cars. Get back at them by putting some air under your wings.

-Skip

 

[HerrGruyere]

I would tell the OP to go wait and have a beer, but...

 

[hopmedic]

Sorry to say, it will make a difference. Every day older is another day wiser.

Back in the '60s there was a saying that you cannot trust anyone over 30. This saying was, of course, advocated by teens and twenties. They were right, too. Because there is a real change in how you think as you grow older.

Teens and twenties frequently say of their parents, "You just don't understand!" This is also true. Our brains have changed.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141164708

So the changes that happen between 18 and 25 are a continuation of the process that starts around puberty, and 18 year olds are about halfway through that process. Their prefrontal cortex is not yet fully developed. That's the part of the brain that helps you to inhibit impulses and to plan and organize your behavior to reach a goal.

And the other part of the brain that is different in adolescence is that the brain's reward system becomes highly active right around the time of puberty and then gradually goes back to an adult level, which it reaches around age 25 and that makes adolescents and young adults more interested in entering uncertain situations to seek out and try to find whether there might be a possibility of gaining something from those situations.

There is nothing here I can argue with. I know that I did some pretty dumb things when I was in that 18-25 year range. Not the least of which was blowing off not one, but TWO nominations to the Naval Academy, one of which was from the SECNAV. Yeah - I could have retired 6 years ago as a Naval Officer, but instead, I looked at my little enlisted self and said, "Do I want to obligate myself to more of this???" I truly believe that if I'd faced the same decision when I was 5 years older, the outcome would have been very different.

Sit back, enjoy your youth, and face the occasional frustration caused by age barriers by going out and doing something fun. You won't be a kid forever. Enjoy it while you can.

 

[Ryan7943]

If this is your main gripe I'd say you're doing pretty well. I'm 19, got my private at 17. I'm just now starting the instrument rating because it took me almost 2 years of working and saving to have enough for the instrument. Once I finish this I'll be flat broke again and have to work my ass off to get enough money for the commercial. I would have loved to be in your position at 17!

 

[LJS1993]

Sorry to say, it will make a difference. Every day older is another day wiser.

Back in the '60s there was a saying that you cannot trust anyone over 30. This saying was, of course, advocated by teens and twenties. They were right, too. Because there is a real change in how you think as you grow older.

Teens and twenties frequently say of their parents, "You just don't understand!" This is also true. Our brains have changed.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=141164708

Yup and studies have shown that the teenage brain in certain regions is not quite as developed as someone in their thirties and beyond. Decision making, mature and rational decisions, emotional maturation, etc..all occurs at leaps and bounds beyond the teen years. Of course basically it means the older the wiser. Shoot, I wish the big issue in my life was getting my commercial license.

 

[MBDiagMan]

Patience Grasshopper!

You have your whole exciting life ahead of you. That 120 days will fly by before you know it. You have the world by the you know what!

 

[Ted]

well you get treated like a kid because you are one you wihppersnapper, noW get off my lawn!

You got that right! Damn kids won't get off my lawn.

David, I sympathize. For me the big problem I had was not being allowed to drive when my mother was (and still is) bad enough that I finally prohibited her from ever operating a motor vehicle. It is frustrating.

That said, arbitrary lines are drawn all over, and with reason. A 5-year-old should not be allowed to drive, for instance. Many 16-year-olds aren't any good at it, either, and don't have the maturity to be able to make decisions. The line is drawn in the sand based on certain factors.

The best thing I'd say is make sure you're ready to take your Commercial, CFI, and CFII on your 18th birthday.

To paraphrase some lyrics that were popular when I was your age:

"But trust me - in 10 years you'll look back at photos of yourself and recall in a way you can't grasp now how silly it was to be concerned about those 4 months, and how much fun you had in those early days of your flying."

 

[Ted]

Sorry to say, it will make a difference. Every day older is another day wiser.

I think you're misunderstanding David. He knows he has much to learn and will get better. The frustration is the fact that he feels (with good reason, I'd suspect) that he can pass the checkride today, but isn't allowed to because of a line in the sand.

Such feelings are frustrating - about 12 or 14 years ago I felt the same way on driving. Hard to believe it was that long ago.

 

[MBDiagMan]

You got that right! Damn kids won't get off my lawn.

David, I sympathize. For me the big problem I had was not being allowed to drive when my mother was (and still is) bad enough that I finally prohibited her from ever operating a motor vehicle. It is frustrating.

That said, arbitrary lines are drawn all over, and with reason. A 5-year-old should not be allowed to drive, for instance. Many 16-year-olds aren't any good at it, either, and don't have the maturity to be able to make decisions. The line is drawn in the sand based on certain factors.

The best thing I'd say is make sure you're ready to take your Commercial, CFI, and CFII on your 18th birthday.

To paraphrase some lyrics that were popular when I was your age:

"But trust me - in 10 years you'll look back at photos of yourself and recall in a way you can't grasp now how silly it was to be concerned about those 4 months, and how much fun you had in those early days of your flying."

I think iFly is offering a great suggestion. Study and fly your butt off such that on you 18th. birthday you ace both of the checkrides and then hope for good weather that day. This will make those 120 days fly by as if they were a few hours. Go make us proud!

Now, GET OFF MY LAWN!

 

[Sac Arrow]

I've always thought it was bizarre that I was old enough to fire weapons, kill MF's, and get killed when I joined the Army, yet I wasn't old enough to drink in most places in the United States.

 

[dell30rb]

I'm gonna register a complaint with Captain!!

Haha

David, just be glad you're 17 and you already have a lot of hours etc and your parents support in your goal of being a pro pilot. By the time you're my age (25) you'll really appreciate it!

 

[Ghery]

18 was so long ago I hardly remember it. Relax, time flies when you're having fun. So, go have some fun.

 

[dell30rb]

I've always thought it was bizarre that I was old enough to fire weapons, kill MF's, and get killed when I joined the Army, yet I wasn't old enough to drink in most places in the United States.

Its ridiculous. Most places in the US? Everywhere, I thought..

You know how they got that one done? Its a state's right to set the drinking age and alcohol laws within the state, but the Feds passed a bill denying any state funding for roads if they did not raise the drinking age. Eventually, they all had to.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Its ridiculous. Most places in the US? Everywhere, I thought..

You know how they got that one done? Its a state's right to set the drinking age and alcohol laws within the state, but the Feds passed a bill denying any state funding for roads if they did not raise the drinking age. Eventually, they all had to.

Haha I think you're right. I didn't grow up much in the States but I remember one of the first weekends after we got back pops sent me on a beer run mission, and I'm thinking I just turned 18 last month, shouldn't be a problem. Surprise surprise, they carded me and said no.

The guy ahead of me in line was some old bearded geezer with a couple of 40's of malt liquor and some chips. I asked the register lady why she carded me and not him. Her reply was "If he's under 21, he needs a drink!"

 

[Anymouse]

I've always thought it was bizarre that I was old enough to fire weapons, kill MF's, and get killed when I joined the Army, yet I wasn't old enough to drink in most places in the United States.

Its ridiculous. Most places in the US? Everywhere, I thought..

You know how they got that one done? Its a state's right to set the drinking age and alcohol laws within the state, but the Feds passed a bill denying any state funding for roads if they did not raise the drinking age. Eventually, they all had to.

Ah yes... The good old days. By pure luck (if that's what you want to call it), I managed to be just under the drinking age before each of my birthdays from 18 to 21. It was 18 in Maryland, then I joined the Navy eventually ending up in Tennessee where the drinking age is 19. Then I ended up in Philadelphia, where the drinking age was 21, but just across the river in New Jersey, it was 20. Less than a month after my birthday, the ship left the Philly yards and docked in Florida, where the drinking age was 21.

Sheesh!!

Anyway, back then most places would serve you if you showed a military ID. They were putting their butts on the line doing that, but they were the people that thought the same as Sac.

 

[MBDiagMan]

I've always thought it was bizarre that I was old enough to fire weapons, kill MF's, and get killed when I joined the Army, yet I wasn't old enough to drink in most places in the United States.

Yep, I went through that thought process too, except when at Fort Bliss in missile training, you could buy beer at the commisary if you were 19 1/2. Where they came up with that age I'll never know. I turned 19 1/2 about two months after I got there and the class lasted over 7 months.

 

[Anymouse]

Yep, I went through that thought process too, except when at Fort Bliss in missile training, you could buy beer at the commisary if you were 19 1/2. Where they came up with that age I'll never know. I turned 19 1/2 about two months after I got there and the class lasted over 7 months.

Yep! I remember the 3.2 beer at the base E-club. It tasted watered down, but at least it was something.

 

[Ghery]

Yep! I remember the 3.2 beer at the base E-club. It tasted watered down, but at least it was something.

I remember someone asking about the difference between 3.2 beer and regular beer a number of years ago (30?) at the Coors brewery. Their reply was that they made sure it was 3.2 on those production runs, but that was about where their beer ran anyway. Never did understand the significance.

 

[Anymouse]

I remember someone asking about the difference between 3.2 beer and regular beer a number of years ago (30?) at the Coors brewery. Their reply was that they made sure it was 3.2 on those production runs, but that was about where their beer ran anyway. Never did understand the significance.

I think Coors was always low on the content, but others (Michelob, Heineken, etc) were higher. I don't recall ever seeing 3.2 versions of those. I think it was mostly Budweiser and Coors. Maybe Miller. Been a long time since I've had a beer on base.

 

[AuntPeggy]

I've always thought it was bizarre that I was old enough to fire weapons, kill MF's, and get killed when I joined the Army, yet I wasn't old enough to drink in most places in the United States.

That's because we want to decide who you get to kill.

 

[CJones]

Yer not old enough to rent a car, either. And you won't be for several years.

-Skip

That was the thing that ticked me off the most back then - I could fly a $100,000+ airplane, do a parallel approach to minimums next to an airliner carrying hundreds of people, but after I taxiied in and tied down next to the multi-$MM private jet, I couldn't rent a 5-year old Dodge Neon to drive into town for sites.

 

[MBDiagMan]

I think Coors was always low on the content, but others (Michelob, Heineken, etc) were higher. I don't recall ever seeing 3.2 versions of those. I think it was mostly Budweiser and Coors. Maybe Miller. Been a long time since I've had a beer on base.

Well, since the thread is drifting to the alcohol content of beer, I guess I need to finish the story....

After leaving Fort Bliss I went to Germany, now THERE is beer with alcohol content and REAL flavor. After coming back to the states in 1971, I'll bet I haven't drank two cases of American beer in all that time. It's water.

In the early 2000's I spent lots of time in Europe on business, about half of that time in Germany. I got the opportunity to drink great beer again.

I now turn the thread back over to David

 

[Sac Arrow]

Tiger beer - brewed in Singapore. 5% alcohol. Actually most Southeast Asian beers are in the 5% range including the local Heineken. It offsets the watering effect from the large ice cube that it is typically served with.

 

[Red Air Rambo]

I turned 18 and could buy 3.2 beer for three months, then the law changed...what a rip...I felt we should be grandfathered. Oh well, fake ID's are a wonderful thing. I agree about the military comments, I served 22 years and we always let the "kids" drink beer...if your old enough to die for your country your old enough to have a beer.

 

[jpower]

So here I am.....4 months until I turn 18 (actually a little less) waiting because I'm not old enough to be a commercial pilot. I've got the hours for it, I'm just not old enough. I like being able to have atleast a minute amount of control over things in my life, however age isn't one. Some days I feel like I'm 17 going on 50, getting treated like a kid gets old pretty quick. Age is such a stupid and arbitrary number, 120 days will NOT make any difference in my piloting ability.

It's just....really dumb. I can fly all night, but if I drive on the road past midnight before 6am during the week I am committing a misdeamenor.

<sigh>

Don't get all grumbly about that! You're in a GREAT position! Read on.

If this is your main gripe I'd say you're doing pretty well. I'm 19, got my private at 17. I'm just now starting the instrument rating because it took me almost 2 years of working and saving to have enough for the instrument. Once I finish this I'll be flat broke again and have to work my ass off to get enough money for the commercial. I would have loved to be in your position at 17!

I have to scrape the money together for every hour. I have three jobs this summer (one main job, two other part time ones) and have to drive an hour and fifteen minutes each way to the airport where I can afford rental and instruction rates. Today it actually took me two and a half hours. I don't have an airplane to take up unless the scheduling gods say I do, and sometimes they hate me with a fiery passion.

Haha

David, just be glad you're 17 and you already have a lot of hours etc and your parents support in your goal of being a pro pilot. By the time you're my age (25) you'll really appreciate it!

The parents thing is big. Mine support me enough to let me fly, which is fantastic, but not enough to pay for it. Sure, they've given me a flight for my birthday for a while now, and they help out with gas getting out to the airport, but the flying is all me. Though in some ways it's really satisfying, knowing that I just learned to fly and that I made that possible for myself.

 

[Ted]

Though in some ways it's really satisfying, knowing that I just learned to fly and that I made that possible for myself.

There is a lot to be said for that. When I was in college, I did work during my summers. The best one out of all was the summer when I took to the road with my truck and trailer, hauling cars around. I got nothing from my mother besides phone calls, and was completely on my own. The motorcycle I purchased with my earnings at the end of the summer had a great deal of meaning to me.

 

[silver-eagle]

Sorry David. There's arbitrary rules all over the place. Like clothes, one size does not fit all. There should be a process one can exploit to circumvent those rules. Maybe an extra test. Maybe making some milestone at some point. They should allow you to take the test but not allow you to exercise the privilege until 18.
Age is relative and not related to one's maturity. There just isn't another criteria people can think of that is as broad and defining as age. Just wait until you're 66 years and 11 months and they tell you you can't retire until you're 71.

 

[ja_user]

I used to worry about the same things (company wouldn't match 401k if you were under 25, etc. etc.)

They are arbitrary numbers... Pick your battles, taking on the FAR's probably isn't worth your breath.

I also recommend flying from the right seat, and making sure that you are comm, cfi, and cfii ready as close to the day as possible. Then you can go do the multis somewhere.l.