Another crash at KRNO

Discussion in 'Lessons Learned' started by DesertNomad, Sep 11, 2016.

  1. DesertNomad

    DesertNomad Cleared for Takeoff

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    The second crash in two weeks.

    Possibly a PA-28R-201T (Turbo Arrow), N821ET, based in Albuquerque.

    Taking off on 25 with wind 260 @ 12G29 on an IFR flight plan.

    He reported a problem just after takeoff and ended up inverted in long-term parking (about 1/2 mile north of the "7" number). They are reporting 3 people killed.

    Happened about 18:12 this evening.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2016
  2. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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  3. unsafervguy

    unsafervguy Line Up and Wait

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    Just guessing but sounds like a power loss followed buy a stall spin...

    RIP

    Bob
     
  4. Vance Breese

    Vance Breese Line Up and Wait

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    AIRCRAFT CRASHED OFF THE END OF THE RUNWAY INTO A PARKING LOT, THE 3 PERSONS ON BOARD WERE FATALLY INJURED, RENO, NV
     
  5. James331

    James331 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Whole new meaning to long term parking :(

    RIP
     
  6. midcap

    midcap Cleared for Takeoff

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    http://www.kathrynsreport.com/search?q=N821ET

    From the article:
    Ed was always there. Generous, big heart, 400-pound rugby player, great athlete. Everybody loved Ed," he said.

    so, 400lbs, plus the pilot plus the woman who they caught out on bounty?

    That's a lot of weight there, wonder if Ed and the woman were in the back seat and caused a CG issue.
     
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  7. hindsight2020

    hindsight2020 Pattern Altitude

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    Not a fan of bounty hunters. It's a State loophole. This one is one such example of why. Who is gonna make the fugitive whole while in the custody of this citizen? If the state had crashed the airplane, the family would be whole. But with this bush league stuff, the woman got sentenced to death against her will without due process and the government gets to walk under what I would describe as a Pontius Pilatus doctrine.

    Taking people into custody shouldn't be viewed so flippantly. You don't automatically become cattle because the state wishes to apprehend you but doesn't want to endure the cost. So much for first world legal system. Complete tragedy and another loss for our supposed legal moral high ground.
     
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  8. Ryanb

    Ryanb En-Route PoA Supporter

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    Very sad, it's been a bad couple of weeks for GA.
     
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  9. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    :yawn:
     
  10. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    I highly doubt if the State crashed the airplane the family would be whole. States write themselves out of liability for all sorts of things all the time.

    The family gets to hire an attorney and fight an entire office of them, paid for by their own taxes, to even have an attempt at being whole.

    In this case, they can go after the pilot's estates N top of everything else.

    You'd never be allowed to do that to a government pilot's family. Even if found to be grossly negligent, the taxpayers would be footing the bill for the settlement.

    Right or wrong, they have more options for named defendants if it's not government transporting the prisoner.
     
  11. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    May they rest in peace.
     
  12. FlySince9

    FlySince9 Pattern Altitude

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    Can a 400lbs guy even get into the back seat of an arrow?
     
  13. tawood

    tawood Line Up and Wait

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    Or....you could just not skip out on bond...but that's none of my business (I need a Kermit the Frog meme).
     
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  14. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Maybe he didn't. W&B would be a lot more favorable if he did. Still a LOT of weight in an Arrow between the three of them.
     
  15. Pilawt

    Pilawt En-Route

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    If he was in the front, was there room for full travel of the yoke?
     
  16. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Good question, with the front seat all the way back I would think so. But 400 lbs is a lot of real estate. Don't know. Presumably he was in the airplane for the trip up. The seats do fold forward, so he could probably take the back. Maybe he did.

    But what about on the return trip? Where do you put the detainee? Up front with access to the controls? Even handcuffed someone could wreak havoc. Which means either he was up front and she was in back, or they were both in the rear seats. 500+ lbs in the back could cause rearward CG issues. Then again 600 in the front would have issues too.

    In the end we won't know what happened until the report comes out.
     
  17. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    This accident could have been avoided altogether. All the "alleged suspect" had to do was not commit a crime, or at least not skip out on bail. Simple enough.

    But then again, some people have to blame others for their own problems.
     
  18. Kristin

    Kristin Cleared for Takeoff

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    Some anyone who commits a crime, no matter how minor and skips bail should reasonably foresee the possibility of dying in a plane crash and hence deserve it? Seems a trifle harsh to me, though I admit my sympathy goes down as the level of crime committed goes up.
     
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  19. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Agreed.

    For that matter, is it wise to transport an evading suspected criminal in a four seat GA aircraft to begin with?
     
  20. midcap

    midcap Cleared for Takeoff

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    I was looking at the POH of the plane in the crash and on the CG table, and I am not sure how they would arrange all that weight for the plane to fly safely.
     
  21. Kristin

    Kristin Cleared for Takeoff

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    I wouldn't want to transport a prisoner in any plane where they could possibly reach the controls at a critical moment.
     
  22. Stingray Don

    Stingray Don Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Agree. No way I would have a passenger that didn't want to be there. They wouldn't even need to reach the controls to cause a real problem in the air.
     
  23. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Handcuffs?
     
  24. MAKG1

    MAKG1 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Trying to take off or land with someone kicking your seat sounds a bit less than ideal, handcuffed or not.
     
  25. MassPilot

    MassPilot Cleared for Takeoff

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    If they're in the back by themselves, they could probably just unfasten their seat-belt and move their hands under their legs so they're now cuffed in the front. Then they could mess with the controls with their cuffed hands. Or they could just kick at the controls.
     
  26. Pilawt

    Pilawt En-Route

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    ... Like any airline flight with a three-year-old in the row behind!

    :mad:
     
  27. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    Leg shackles? ;)
     
  28. MassPilot

    MassPilot Cleared for Takeoff

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    How about just sticking them in the cargo hold ;)
     
  29. Hank S

    Hank S En-Route

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    You're right, it's much better to drive them several,hundred mikes in the backseat of a car. Have you looked at the highway accident data recently?
     
  30. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    I have done it several times. Its called, restraints. The hands and feet are restrained, to the seat if I have to.

    P.S. Can't drive a prisoner in about 90% of Alaska, flying is still the quickest way.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2016
  31. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    I don't see how you read into my statement anywhere that I said that person deserved to die for committing a crime and/or jumping bail. Nope, after a reread I still don't see it.

    But, read slowly, slower, slower still, and see how I said that this particular accident could have been avoided if the "alleged suspect" had not committed a crime or jumped bail.
     
  32. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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    The unpressurized one? ;)
     
  33. Tarheelpilot

    Tarheelpilot Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

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    Don't be silly. You actually expect someone to read and comprehend your post.
     
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  34. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    None of the names matching that pilot were even commercial pilots. The whole operation sounds pretty shaky. Most likely the bounty hunter, being dead now, is probably judgement proof.
     
  35. timwinters

    timwinters Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    You certainly implied it.
     
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  36. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    No. Never did anywhere in my original post.

    It is only implied in your world, I guess.
     
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  37. Kristin

    Kristin Cleared for Takeoff

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    And mine! There is a philosophical and legal concept called foreseeability. It has to do with the remoteness of the event to the action. You statement implied that she deserved what she got. However, the foreseeable fruits of a crime certainly extend to arrest, incarceration, etc. But unless she committed a capital crime, for which she probably wouldn't have gotten bail, death is not foreseeable as a result. It is certainly not foreseeable for jumping bail that one might be stuck in a small airplane flown by who knows? Now if she interfered with the controls, then she got what she deserved, but we don't know that.

    I also have my doubts that this was a charter flight, so unless the bail bondsman owed or leased the plane, it may have been an illegal charter.
     
  38. Zeldman

    Zeldman Final Approach

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    The wages of sin is death, and we all will die sooner or later for our sins.

    They also could have been killed in a car or even a train. Does that mean no transportation should have been used at all?

    You are putting words into my statement that just are not there.

    Not lowering myself to your world.

    Finished

    (because I have enough respect for the rules of conduct to not take this to the spin zone mentality)
     
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  39. Cooter

    Cooter Cleared for Takeoff

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    Legal schmegal, Gus McRae knows what Zeldman meant. You ride with an outlaw, you die with an outlaw!
     
  40. Kristin

    Kristin Cleared for Takeoff

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    Sin or not, however such is defined, we will all surely die. Or was your point to preach a bit of gospel to us heathens?

    Would you still blame her death on her sin if she had been killed in a car crash?