Another CAPS deployment - SR22 New Mexico

denverpilot

denverpilot

Tied Down
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
55,469
Location
Denver, CO
Display Name
Display name:
DenverPilot
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation

Accident occurred Friday, October 28, 2016 in Bloomfield, NM

Aircraft: CIRRUS DESIGN CORP SR22, registration: N234PJ

Injuries: 1 Uninjured.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed. NTSB investigators may not have traveled in support of this investigation and used data provided by various sources to prepare this aircraft accident report.

On October 28, 2016, about 1015 mountain daylight time, a Cirrus Design SR22 airplane, N234PJ, was substantially damage during a forced landing following a loss of engine power during cruise flight near Bloomfield, New Mexico. The pilot was not injured. The airplane was registered to Coastal King Aviation, LLC, and operated by the pilot under the provisions of 14 Code of Federal Regulations Part 91 as a personal flight. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the flight, which was not operated on a flight plan. The flight originated from the Albuquerque International Airport (ABQ), Albuquerque, New Mexico, about 0915. The intended destination was the Stevens Field Airport (PSO), Pagosa Springs, Colorado.


The pilot reported that a few minutes after leveling at a cruise altitude of 11,500 feet mean sea level, the engine starting "missing" and within two minutes lost power completely. His attempts to restart the engine were unsuccessful. He was unable to locate a suitable forced landing site within the glide range of the airplane and subsequently elected to activate the Cirrus Airframe Parachute System. The airplane came to rest in an area of low brush and small trees. The aft fuselage/empennage separated from the airframe and was located immediately adjacent to the airplane at the accident site.
 
I wonder how many hours for the engine/airframe. Do the engines get bogged down by the extra weight of the chute and fail? :D:D
 
I wonder about those IO-550s in the SR22s. It sure does seem like many of them don't get close to TBO looking at Controller with Cirri having 1,500 hours and 700 STOH.

I thought the single-lever was supposed to eliminate ham-fisted pilots from doing stupid things with their motor...
 
For the record, I'm not blaming the pilot in this case, just wondering about the plane/powerplant...

Glad the guy was able to walk away. Every CAPS save is good day for pilots and for GA.
 
labbadabba said:
I wonder about those IO-550s in the SR22s. It sure does seem like many of them don't get close to TBO looking at Controller with Cirri having 1,500 hours and 700 STOH.

I thought the single-lever was supposed to eliminate ham-fisted pilots from doing stupid things with their motor...
Click to expand...

The Cirrus is far from FADEC. I don't think the IO-550 is much different from other aircraft. On the Cirrus, the throttle and prop control are interconnected by a mechanical linkage. That's it. Mixture is still manual.

The reason you see so many with top overhauls before TBO is simply pilots operating habits. I think the POH actually has cruise numbers at 85% power. If you were to operate it at 75% or less and either well LOP or well ROP in the 65-75% power range I'm sure your engine would make it to TBO.

I don't think they have cooling issues so you really can't blame the airplane.
 
These SR22s sure seem to have a lot of engine issues... Or do they? Sometimes I wonder if the operator just gets spooked and pulls the red handle.

"OMG the engine sounds weird pull the handle!!!!"
 
Cavorter said:
These SR22s sure seem to have a lot of engine issues... Or do they? Sometimes I wonder if the operator just gets spooked and pulls the red handle.
Click to expand...
Fewer engine issues than Cessna 210s, Lancairs, and Glasairs. See my post under "Pulling the red handle."

Frankly, it's probably a case of there being more survivors to talk about it afterwards.... 1/2 :)

Ron Wanttaja
 
I thinking it may be because of the chute and the uniqueness of it, and survivors, which gets good press coverage including some with video the chute deployed and the craft coming down. Others just video of some POAer doing videos... ;)
 
I'm from the Northeast where there is an airport every 3 miles :) losing an engine at over 11,000 feet would provide a lot of options to find an airport. Is this not the case in NM or CO?
 
armycopter said:
I'm from the Northeast where there is an airport every 3 miles :) losing an engine at over 11,000 feet would provide a lot of options to find an airport. Is this not the case in NM or CO?
Click to expand...
Definitely not the case in NM or CO :). A lot of open country and the airports are often a long way apart. The town this SR22 was nearest to, Bloomfield, NM, doesn't have an airport. At 11,000 feet where this incident happened, he would have been 4000 to 5000 ft above the ground.
 
These engine failure threads freak me out. Seems like it happens a lot.
 
CC268 said:
Not "too bad" haha...oh well I guess!
Click to expand...
We'd obviously like the accident number to be 0 but when you think about how many GA took place and we had this one accident, it really shouldn't scare you. Not trying to minimize this accident, just trying to put in perspective.
 
I hope...I still always kind of worry on takeoff in my Cherokee...it's not exactly the fastest climber...and there isn't anywhere to land on either end of my home airport except for buildings...I'd be **** out of luck if my engine quit.
 
CC268 said:
I hope...I still always kind of worry on takeoff in my Cherokee...it's not exactly the fastest climber...and there isn't anywhere to land on either end of my home airport except for buildings...I'd be **** out of luck if my engine quit.
Click to expand...

I would be doing the mental exercise of what real options are available. Engine failures are pretty rare, but the consequences in a GA aircraft are somewhat greater than the ol' Chevy. As they say during the airline pre-takeoff briefing..."In the unlikely event of"...you want to act decisively. And that means thinking through and knowing you options before starting the take off roll.

I used to fly Piper Tomahawks and Cherokees out of a city center airport decades ago. In the case of one runway, once past the airport boundary the only option was railway tracks. Makes the decision clear, thinking it through in advance.
 
Last edited:
CC268 said:
These engine failure threads freak me out. Seems like it happens a lot.
Click to expand...

jordane93 said:
If you think about how many successful GA flights are out there, it's not too bad.
Click to expand...

My current CFI is over 40,000 hours with about 10,000 of that in light aircraft, and has never had an engine failure. Granted, he's an A&P with AI privileges and does his own maintenance, for he most part, and is cautious about mistreating powerplants, but he's only ever had two precautionary engine shutdowns for false fire warnings in all that time. And those were in turbine airliners.

I do joke with him that he's overdue, however.

On the other hand, I know one person who's had two night engine-outs in singles (both ended up on a runway) and another who's had one night engine out in a single (ended up on a city street) and one day engine out in a single (ended up on a dirt road and rolled into the driveway of a ranch)...

And even one who's survived a mid-air and has the N-number section of one side of the tail bolted to their wall at home as a memento, that the salvage yard cut out and sent to them.

Roll the dice. Plan for the worst. Might not get it. Might get it in spades.
 
CC268 said:
I hope...I still always kind of worry on takeoff in my Cherokee...it's not exactly the fastest climber...and there isn't anywhere to land on either end of my home airport except for buildings...I'd be **** out of luck if my engine quit.
Click to expand...
Commercial building roofs (flat roofs) are a decent option in heavily built areas. Better than trying to stretch a glide and stalling in. That normally ends badly for those in the plane.
 
denverpilot said:
My current CFI is over 40,000 hours with about 10,000 of that in light aircraft, and has never had an engine failure. Granted, he's an A&P with AI privileges and does his own maintenance, for he most part, and is cautious about mistreating powerplants, but he's only ever had two precautionary engine shutdowns for false fire warnings in all that time. And those were in turbine airliners.

I do joke with him that he's overdue, however.

On the other hand, I know one person who's had two night engine-outs in singles (both ended up on a runway) and another who's had one night engine out in a single (ended up on a city street) and one day engine out in a single (ended up on a dirt road and rolled into the driveway of a ranch)...

And even one who's survived a mid-air and has the N-number section of one side of the tail bolted to their wall at home as a memento, that the salvage yard cut out and sent to them.

Roll the dice. Plan for the worst. Might not get it. Might get it in spades.
Click to expand...

I love flying but I'm sure not a gambling man. There's no guarantees in life but I'm not gonna go out and kill myself if the chances are likely that it will happen.

I guess my point is...I'm a young kid (23) and sometimes I think if I keep flying then the chances are high I will die in a fiery ball of aluminum.

Quit while your ahead right?!
 
Last edited:
Acrodustertoo said:
don't file a flight plan :no: and this is what happens.
Click to expand...

I realize that a flight plan is important and should be filed but does an engine care if we file one or not?

CC268 said:
I love flying but I'm sure not a gambling man. There's no guarantees in life but I'm not gonna go out and kill myself if the chances are likely that it will happen.
Click to expand...

We are ALL gamblers whether we believe it or not. We smoke, Booze, Eat Destructive foods, Drink Contaminated water, Drive over the speed limit, On the cellphone while driving.....etc
 
dell30rb said:
The Cirrus is far from FADEC. I don't think the IO-550 is much different from other aircraft. On the Cirrus, the throttle and prop control are interconnected by a mechanical linkage. That's it. Mixture is still manual.

The reason you see so many with top overhauls before TBO is simply pilots operating habits. I think the POH actually has cruise numbers at 85% power. If you were to operate it at 75% or less and either well LOP or well ROP in the 65-75% power range I'm sure your engine would make it to TBO.

I don't think they have cooling issues so you really can't blame the airplane.
Click to expand...

I was flying a SR22 and it went well over 2,000 hrs. I heard from the owner late this summer, he moved at the beginning of the year, and a mechanic was recommending a rebuild due to an issue. The engine has over 2,400 hrs on it. I see more SR22's with high engine time than those rebuild early. I think the EMax option really helps with the engine management, which is what is helping many of those IO-550s make or exceed TBO expectations.
 
wayne said:
I was flying a SR22 and it went well over 2,000 hrs. I heard from the owner late this summer, he moved at the beginning of the year, and a mechanic was recommending a rebuild due to an issue. The engine has over 2,400 hrs on it. I see more SR22's with high engine time than those rebuild early. I think the EMax option really helps with the engine management, which is what is helping many of those IO-550s make or exceed TBO expectations.
Click to expand...

There's a big difference between the turbo and naturally aspirated SR22s as well. Based on a lot of COPA feedback it seems that NA engines seem to routinely beat TBO with a few examples reaching up near 3000 hours while the harder working turbo IO550 variants often need top work around 800-1200 hours and typically don't make 2000 hours before an overhaul is necessary. This really should not surprise anyone given the workload and heat generated by those turbo engines. Doing 200 KTAS with the gear out on 16-17GPH has its cost... But the vast majority of planes that dont 'make TBO' do so by announcing their need for maintenance in a gradual and predictable way that does not result in an inflight failure. Those are still very rare and only appear frequent because EVERY SINGLE ONE* gets reported. Just as reading news about the lottery would suggest that odds of winning are much higher than they really since no-one reports on the billions of losing lottery buyers every year, successful flights do not get reported anywhere.

Anyway, my experience has been very similar as well, I had an NA SR22 that I owned for 1800 hours and never had a hiccup (and as far as I know is still going strong on the original engine 2 years since Ive sold it), and my TN is only at about 450 hours but has been much more of a maintenance hog in those two years and 450 hours than the NA plane was over the 6 years I had it.

* I know that there are some unreported engine failures, but I guarantee you it isn't many in the Cirrus world. Its a really tight community and we tend to hear about every little thing, even if it never makes the mainstream media.
 
RudyP said:
There's a big difference between the turbo and naturally aspirated SR22s as well.

...
Click to expand...

Thanks for catching that. I didn't state it and you're definitely correct. The one I was flying was NA. I'm sure if they were flow at 4-6,000' and run hard they'd have more trouble like the turbo charged version.
 
CC268 said:
I love flying but I'm sure not a gambling man. There's no guarantees in life but I'm not gonna go out and kill myself if the chances are likely that it will happen.

I guess my point is...I'm a young kid (23) and sometimes I think if I keep flying then the chances are high I will die in a fiery ball of aluminum.

Quit while your ahead right?!
Click to expand...

Judging from his post above, you will dramatically increase your chances of nothing happening if you stay away from denverpilot's friends. ;)
 
GRG55 said:
Judging from his post above, you will dramatically increase your chances of nothing happening if you stay away from denverpilot's friends. ;)
Click to expand...

I didn't know anyone involved. Just got the NTSB report.
 
denverpilot said:
I didn't know anyone involved. Just got the NTSB report.
Click to expand...

??? :confused:

denverpilot said:
...On the other hand, I know one person who's had two night engine-outs in singles (both ended up on a runway) and another who's had one night engine out in a single (ended up on a city street) and one day engine out in a single (ended up on a dirt road and rolled into the driveway of a ranch)...

And even one who's survived a mid-air and has the N-number section of one side of the tail bolted to their wall at home as a memento, that the salvage yard cut out and sent to them.

...
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top