Another ASRS Question

[VWGhiaBob]

Sorry if answer is on the Board, but I have read many ASRS posts and don't see this one.

I have filed several ASRS reports, most recently when I might have climbed a little too fast and possibly clipped the corner of a Class C airspace in LA.

I know the ASRS system protects me from enforcement actions. But is there any chance that by pointing out errors like this through ASRS, I still end up with a violation on my record BECAUSE of the ASRS report? I guess I'm not sure what "enforcement action" means, exactly.

When you file an ASRS, you are, in effect, reporting a possible violation that the FAA / ATC might not have known about otherwise.

So question is...

Is there a chance that filing an ASRS report might introduce a violation onto a pilot's record, even if there's no "enforcement action"? Or is the pilot's name from the ASRS kept from the FAA, with the ASRS available to the pilot in case the FAA takes action based on other non-ASRS sources of information?

Thanks, members!

 

[Brad Z]

Sorry if answer is on the Board, but I have read many ASRS posts and don't see this one.

I have filed several ASRS reports, most recently when I might have climbed a little too fast and possibly clipped the corner of a Class C airspace in LA.

I know the ASRS system protects me from enforcement actions. But is there any chance that by pointing out errors like this through ASRS, I still end up with a violation on my record BECAUSE of the ASRS report? I guess I'm not sure what "enforcement action" means, exactly.

When you file an ASRS, you are, in effect, reporting a possible violation that the FAA / ATC might not have known about otherwise.

So question is...

Is there a chance that filing an ASRS report might introduce a violation onto a pilot's record, even if there's no "enforcement action"? Or is the pilot's name from the ASRS kept from the FAA, with the ASRS available to the pilot in case the FAA takes action based on other non-ASRS sources of information?

Thanks, members!

No there is not. There is no identifying information in the final report. NASA does not share information about the sender to the FAA.

Besides, ASIs have a lot better things to do than to chase down a possible clip of airspace that didn't result in a loss of separation.

 

[VWGhiaBob]

No there is not. There is no identifying information in the final report. NASA does not share information about the sender to the FAA.

Besides, ASIs have a lot better things to do than to chase down a possible clip of airspace that didn't result in a loss of separation.

Thanks for the clear answer. Have been wondering about this for some time. Sound like there's no reason not to report, ever.

 

[Brad Z]

Thanks for the clear answer. Have been wondering about this for some time. Sound like there's no reason not to report, ever.

http://asrs.arc.nasa.gov/overview/immunity.html

 

[flyingron]

There are two parts of the ASRS: immunity and the "get out of jail free" part. As long as there is no accident or it's not an intentional violation of the rules, your submissions are not going to hurt you.

 

[Kritchlow]

There are two parts of the ASRS: immunity and the "get out of jail free" part. As long as there is no accident or it's not an intentional violation of the rules, your submissions are not going to hurt you.

There is no "get of of jail free" part. You can still get a violation on your permanent record. You will however receive waiver of sanction under most circumstances.

 

[VWGhiaBob]

There is no "get of of jail free" part. You can still get a violation on your permanent record. You will however receive waiver of sanction under most circumstances.

Yes...but my question was if the ASRS could raise awareness and LEAD to a violation. The answer to that appears to be no.

In my case, ATC would have had to notice the violation separately and contact me. Since at least on this one it was maybe not a violation anyway, I was talking to ATC, and ATC didn't notice, it's unlikely they will do anything.

Just wanted to make sure I'm not harming myself with the ASRS. Sounds like the answer is absolutely not. It can only help other pilots and myself.

 

[Kritchlow]

Yes...but my question was if the ASRS could raise awareness and LEAD to a violation. The answer to that appears to be no.

In my case, ATC would have had to notice the violation separately and contact me. Since at least on this one it was maybe not a violation anyway, I was talking to ATC, and ATC didn't notice, it's unlikely they will do anything.

Just wanted to make sure I'm not harming myself with the ASRS. Sounds like the answer is absolutely not. It can only help other pilots and myself.

I agree with what you said.... No, filing an ASRS will not bring any FAA pressure on you whatsoever.
My response was more geared to a different poster that I quoted.

 

[Henning]

Thanks for the clear answer. Have been wondering about this for some time. Sound like there's no reason not to report, ever.

That is correct, no reason to avoid it, that's why they make the whole deal they do; they really want the information on what goes wrong even when there are no accidents or enforcements. You are filing it with NASA, no one else.

 

[warthog1984]

There are two parts of the ASRS: immunity and the "get out of jail free" part. As long as there is no accident or it's not an intentional violation of the rules, your submissions are not going to hurt you.

Even if there is an accident, the FAA seems to take an ASRS as evidence of cooperation and reduce any sanction.

Just don't flagrantly intentionally violate the rules and try to hide behind an ASRS after the investigation starts- they'll nail you to the wall for that.

Yes, people have tried.

 

[flyingron]

There is no "get of of jail free" part. You can still get a violation on your permanent record. You will however receive waiver of sanction under most circumstances.

That's why I put the phrase in quotation marks.

 

[flyingron]

Even if there is an accident, the FAA seems to take an ASRS as evidence of cooperation and reduce any sanction.

Just don't flagrantly intentionally violate the rules and try to hide behind an ASRS after the investigation starts- they'll nail you to the wall for that.

Yes, people have tried.

My comments were not applying to the "get out of jail free" part which everybody seems wrapped around the axle to quibble about.

I am talking about (and what the original poster inquired about) the immunity from using the information provided in the ASRS for enforcement actions and the restrictions are EXACTLY what I said.

 

[taters]

Sorry if answer is on the Board, but I have read many ASRS posts and don't see this one.

I have filed several ASRS reports, most recently when I might have climbed a little too fast and possibly clipped the corner of a Class C airspace in LA.

I know the ASRS system protects me from enforcement actions. But is there any chance that by pointing out errors like this through ASRS, I still end up with a violation on my record BECAUSE of the ASRS report? I guess I'm not sure what "enforcement action" means, exactly.

When you file an ASRS, you are, in effect, reporting a possible violation that the FAA / ATC might not have known about otherwise.

So question is...

Is there a chance that filing an ASRS report might introduce a violation onto a pilot's record, even if there's no "enforcement action"? Or is the pilot's name from the ASRS kept from the FAA, with the ASRS available to the pilot in case the FAA takes action based on other non-ASRS sources of information?

Thanks, members!

From the report itself no, (assuming criminal behavior not in play)

If the event is non-sole source meaning the FAA received a Pilot Deviation report from an ATC facility, then they could find and issue a violation or form of administrative action.

Once you inform them that an ASRS report has been filed, the worst that is likely to happen is a warning letter. There is a Risk Analysis chart that is used by the FAA and if the risk can’t be mitigated below as certain level, the FAA actually has no choice but to issue a certain level of administrative action (but obviously can’t issue enforcement action).

ASRS (and its derivatives such as ASAP) are a safety program not a pilot protection program.

One last thing, if you get an LOI in the mail and THEN go file an ASRS report the FAA may not look at that as a "constructive attitude"

 

[Kritchlow]

From the report itself no,

If the event is non-sole source meaning the FAA received a Pilot Deviation report from an ATC facility then they could find and issue a violation or administrative action. Although once you inform them that an ASRS report has been filed, the worst that is likely to happen is a warning letter. There is a Risk Analysis chart that is used by the FAA and if the risk can’t be mitigated below as certain level, the FAA actually has no choice but to issue a certain level of administrative action (but obviously can’t issue enforcement action).

ASRS (and its derivatives such as ASAP) are a safety program not a pilot protection program.

But as you know, ASAP is a much different program. In many respects, ASAP is indeed a get out of jail free card.

That said, for those that are not aware, ASAP is not a program for general aviation.

 

[taters]

But as you know, ASAP is a much different program. In many respects, ASAP is indeed a get out of jail free card.

That said, for those that are not aware, ASAP is not a program for general aviation.

It’s a safety program, and those that try and use it just for the purpose you mentioned can easily find the reports they submitted NOT accepted which then allows them to be de-identified and taken back to the FSDO for investigation.

ASAP came from the ASRS system and they parallel each other quite a-bit closer than you may realize.

 

[Kritchlow]

It’s a safety program, and those that try and use it just for the purpose you mentioned often find the reports they submitted NOT accepted which then allows them to be de-identified and taken back to the FSDO for investigation.

ASAP came from the ASRS system and they parallel each other quite a-bit closer than you may realize.

I have yet to see an ASAP rejected as long as the time parameters are honored. In the two companies I have worked for that have ASAP, they CANNOT deny it if it's within the parameters of time, intentional, criminal, and so forth.

 

[taters]

I have yet to see an ASAP rejected as long as the time parameters are honored. In the two companies I have worked for that have ASAP, they CANNOT deny it if it's within the parameters of time, intentional, criminal, and so forth.

your correct about the parameters but the most obvious attempts to cover ones rear usually dont meet them .

 

[Kritchlow]

your correct about the parameters but the most obvious attempts to cover ones rear usually dont meet them .

Basically my point is unlike ASRS, you cannot get an FAA violation with ASAP (parameters noted). I think that's a big difference.