And so the project begins…Comanche 180

L

Llk

Pre-takeoff checklist
Joined
Jan 9, 2019
Messages
301
Display Name
Display name:
glbtrottr
This lovely dilapidated piece of history had been neglected at a local airport for a great long time. We purchased it at auction. It would be great to track down the logbooks…

Piper seemed to be really good at chromating these models - so the airframe, while looking pretty mangy, seems in pristine condition.

Someone tried to steal the 3 bladed prop but didn’t get far enough along, and they left the upper cowling behind which we thought was missing. Turns out the local engine shop rescued it and provided it back. God bless them

All original avionics seem to have been stolen…

Soooo…the disassembly begins…opinions welcome


f4ac6119a510d4724855d1c126de074f.jpg

69f9b9aa841c6c9fdd4595e01950fa0b.jpg

63b9d72b2cc9cf7aae654853a98dc428.jpg

e9b77defb774632ee3ba1d348098fd92.jpg

ab90341753264ae5c8c9c88e87d02d9c.jpg

4923ee5ce3fb7c0196a3295abac50c99.jpg

2538f04641e8c0fc6b397511bc0973e3.jpg

c900ae72fceace5c5c4dfd0872c939fb.jpg

03801d110c6288455046524273974f81.jpg

7fbd7d2f7b54f21f34e8522995c340ed.jpg

8592be6368aafdb60d132a8907d58f67.jpg

a63dff213d34fe844b6dbc40d14badb6.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
But why????

There are projects, and then there are PROJECTS. This seems to fall into the latter category.

I get the Rebuild Rescue projects (sort of), they seem to have a reason for spending twice as much money fixing and old plane as it would cost to buy a great one in flying condition with low time engines and upgraded panel.


Not that you have to explain, but I'm curious what your goal or expectation is with this plane?
 
What is going on in these photos? The first one has no tail, but later on clearly there is a tail and it’s antennas.
 
I may be wrong, but I thought those counterweights on the rudder were no longer obtainable, and those look completely corroded beyond repair. That looks like it will be a very expensive rebuild, if even possible. I'm not sure how much of it even is able to be parted out unfortunately, and I have a soft spot for Comanches.
 
Good luck

Don’t mind those other guys

Please tell us you have restoration experience and Comanche knowledge (ducking)
 
There are two co-owners:

One has owned a Comanche 260 for 30 years and used to work for Boeing.

The other owns a paint and avionics repair station (that’s me).

The airplane is not intended for resale. We are keeping it as a shop plane.

The airframe was complete except for the counterweights being corroded and the dorsal fin fairing - plus avionics. The dorsal fin is common.

I have the GX60 on the right panel; i also think I have the transponder. The narco NAV COMs I don’t have and would love to know who’s got some.

Sorry about the pictures being out of order. The plane was found with no top cowling; the cowling was later located. The seats are complete.

The airplane is being taken apart for relocation. The tail was removed already, next is the wings and engine.

A friend of mine, James Hatami, will do the engine overhaul.
 
midwestpa24 said:
I may be wrong, but I thought those counterweights on the rudder were no longer obtainable, and those look completely corroded beyond repair. That looks like it will be a very expensive rebuild, if even possible. I'm not sure how much of it even is able to be parted out unfortunately, and I have a soft spot for Comanches.
Click to expand...

How are they not obtainable? Not asking in a mean way, I just havent heard that and kinda curious.
 
charheep said:
How are they not obtainable? Not asking in a mean way, I just havent heard that and kinda curious.
Click to expand...

I thought I had heard that through various Comanche groups, or perhaps it is the stabilator counterweights. They do not appear to be manufacturer anymore. I always see post of people looking for them or hoping to salvage some.

If those are so heavily corroded, I'd be leery of other places on the Comanche. Yes the Comanches have corrosion protection from the factory, but even it isn't bulletproof.
 
I am looking forward to the progress stories and pictures. Hope you get lots of pleasant surprises.
 
I figured I would start at the initial and disassembly phase. We bought this beauty for $6k - it’s pretty public - so $3k a piece isn’t horrible. The prop with a reseal is worth more than that.

We rescue and pick up airplanes often enough- I’ve worked on Comanches in the past, but in all honesty…do I know all the issues around the unobtanium parts in them? Hmmm no. I grew up on Cessnas and Mooneys….and paint pipers and beech every week.

The good news is at least since we are disassembling the airplane to move it, we will have a pretty good look into many of the components that we would not usually see.

We will probably end up stripping, brightening, treating the aluminum, primering, sanding and painting components as we go since I have a ridiculous amount of paint. The windows aren’t difficult to replace in a Comanche. Short of the engine overhaul, there’s nothing there we don’t do as a shop every day. This won’t be a show piece…but it will be functional.

One of my painters made a mistake at 19, and he’s 64. He lost his license as a young man…and the FAA agreed to let him have it back. Another painter used to paint for the Marine Corps - he has his helicopter commercial ticket but no fixed wing. Part of me wanted to give them a wood and cloth airplane since we do a lot of work there …but this seemed interesting.

I wish we had some history of the airplane, but we will see how it goes :)
 
I'm looking forward to following your adventures here. Looks like it could be a lot of fun (if it doesn't become a nightmare).
 
for fun with unlimited money or perhaps a good donation to an A&P school to learn. But I don’t see a lot of places that you are getting good news. Good luck. Have fun!
 
It's not always about getting in the air the quickest....or the cheapest. (THAT I think is the driver for most neigh sayers in situations like this. They just have a different paradigmn about the purpose)

I don't see how it's any different than folks buying some old rusted out classic car, stripping it down to the frame and refurbishing it better than new...just for the project of it all. (or boat, etc...).... It's a way to make it yours, customize as much as you want, etc... and about bringing life back to a neglected classic!

I wish I had the time and money to do such a thing...(and the A&P cert for doing it with a certified aircraft)

Once I had a retired A&P as a neighbor and I hatched a plan to buy an old plane as a DIY refurb project.... was thinking of a cessna 170 in those days....now I didn't have my sights set on anything needing quite as much attention as your Piper...but I did envision stripping it down pretty much to the bare "frame" and cleaning it all up. My neighbor was going to be there for supervision and sign-off... sadly (or gladly?) that plan fell apart with a job layoff, then kids came along...and life in general....
 
Brad W said:
It's not always about getting in the air the quickest....or the cheapest. (THAT I think is the driver for most neigh sayers in situations like this. They just have a different paradigmn about the purpose)

I don't see how it's any different than folks buying some old rusted out classic car, stripping it down to the frame and refurbishing it better than new...just for the project of it all. (or boat, etc...).... It's a way to make it yours, customize as much as you want, etc... and about bringing life back to a neglected classic!

I wish I had the time and money to do such a thing...(and the A&P cert for doing it with a certified aircraft)

Once I had a retired A&P as a neighbor and I hatched a plan to buy an old plane as a DIY refurb project.... was thinking of a cessna 170 in those days....now I didn't have my sights set on anything needing quite as much attention as your Piper...but I did envision stripping it down pretty much to the bare "frame" and cleaning it all up. My neighbor was going to be there for supervision and sign-off... sadly (or gladly?) that plan fell apart with a job layoff, then kids came along...and life in general....
Click to expand...

I get it. After all, I have spent more time and money than I care to admit owning and maintaining a 40 year old "plastic" sailboat because of sentimental value. The only issue you run into with a certified aircraft is the extreme cost of some components, and in some cases the utter unavailability of others. Being an A&P and being able to do a lot of the work yourself helps.

Granted, there are shops that can build a P-51 from just a data plate these days. If you have the millions to fund the project that is.
 
Hope you'll be doing a "This Old Plane" video series on this. I'm looking forward to following along.


Llk said:
I wish we had some history of the airplane,...
Click to expand...

Y'know, part of the fun might be inventing its history, creating authentic-looking yellowed and aged logbooks, photoshopping pics of it flying serum into an Alaskan village or finding lost climbers, etc., etc. ;)
 
There's a Beech Sierra chained to the ramp at KGPT that I would love to do the same with as it sits out there and slowly rots away. But alas, no time/space/money for such a project.
 
As a paint and avionics shop, we will have new employees come on board at times. Whether it is teaching them to remove control surfaces, learning how to strip, the value of using a brightener, to alodine or not, different qualities of primers, one type or paint versus another, blocking vs hand sanding vs using a DA, avoiding rivets and the like…we always do that on non customer aircraft. Sure, we can bang on a discarded panel…but the skin in the game on that is limited. One of the paint shop guys will be cutting his teeth on installing their first GPS And audio panel on this thing :) that’s what makes projects like this fun.

After stepping away from an IT career, I learned how to paint at a community college at night for fun and started a non profit teaching kids how to become entrepreneurs and earn their own pink slips. The shop became an extension; the employees have their own stories, and I enjoy giving them a chance to fly (all waivers included).

Could we buy a beat up Comanche and repaint it just as we paint any other airplane? Sure we could. But what’s the fun in that?
 
SoonerAviator said:
I think all you have to do after dropping in the -720 is write "+220" next to the 180 on the data plate and you're good to go.
Click to expand...
And upgrade the tail. The 400 has a much larger and heavier stabilator. I think it came from the Twin or the Aztec.
 
Hmmmm yeahno - fun as a 400 sounds, I’m too frugal to be pounding on 8 cylinders :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Well, one thing you got going for you is alodine from the factory...should make it a touch less painful than some other resurrections.
 
God bless you for teaching the next generation...and giving other ramp rats hope.

And let me know when you get started on that Commander in the background!
 
Last edited:
Llk said:
As a paint and avionics shop, we will have new employees come on board at times. Whether it is teaching them to remove control surfaces, learning how to strip, the value of using a brightener, to alodine or not, different qualities of primers, one type or paint versus another, blocking vs hand sanding vs using a DA, avoiding rivets and the like…we always do that on non customer aircraft. Sure, we can bang on a discarded panel…but the skin in the game on that is limited. One of the paint shop guys will be cutting his teeth on installing their first GPS And audio panel on this thing :) that’s what makes projects like this fun.

After stepping away from an IT career, I learned how to paint at a community college at night for fun and started a non profit teaching kids how to become entrepreneurs and earn their own pink slips. The shop became an extension; the employees have their own stories, and I enjoy giving them a chance to fly (all waivers included).

Could we buy a beat up Comanche and repaint it just as we paint any other airplane? Sure we could. But what’s the fun in that?
Click to expand...

Good luck with the rebuild...

This story is very interesting to me. Care to share the name of your shop or a website ?
 
Kitch said:
Good luck with the rebuild...

This story is very interesting to me. Care to share the name of your shop or a website ?
Click to expand...

Thank you! I’m excited about it. It’s interesting how many hands like to jump in when people realize it’s not a for-profit project.

I haven’t read the terms of service on the site and don’t want to run afoul until I learn them - we are in Southern California at KCPM. I took it over very recently. Some of our painters have either won at Oshkosh or have been teaching custom paint over 45 years, worked for Axalta, etc.

I’ll check to see what it takes to be a sponsor soon. As such Im only posting personal projects, not shop work…

Next up? A Mooney Mite :)
 
Chip Sylverne said:
Well, one thing you got going for you is alodine from the factory...should make it a touch less painful than some other resurrections.
Click to expand...
there was a Comanche history seminar Tuesday<?> @ osh by a piper guy. He said originally only international aircraft were suppose to get the alodine, sounded like an employee screw up, thank goodness. Once it got started, it was pretty hard to change directions.
 
It is not so much the alodine which makes the Comanches more corrosion resistant than most all GA aircraft. It is that every piece got the zinc chromate paint before they were assembled. Bought a 180 that had been disassembled after being bellied in. The fuselage sat outside through two Minnesota winters. We bought for parts. After failing to find any corrosion in the fuselage, we will likely repair and put it back in the air.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top