An Eccentric Ad Man Loses His Helicopter to the Feds

1600vw said:
Every person in that gas station said at the same time. Do not go through that state. I can not remember what state, seems to me to be alabama. But they said the police will take everything you have including that nice little sportscar you are driving.
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H.A.S.

They were probably warning you about Tanaha, Tx. A little town with a big reputation for stealing the possessions of any minority who drives through.

http://my.chicagotribune.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-45482890/

They've built a lot of really nice municipal buildings around town with their ill gotten gains.
 
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ClimbnSink said:
Mimor nitpick the freedoms you speak of were lost pre 911 in the war on drugs.
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I guess my memory is different, I thought the patriot act and the secret acts started after 9-11, but who knows I sort of remember in college talking to my liberal professor in New Orleans about how freedom in this country is more of a fantasy, than reality, and this was long before the war on drugs, and the war on terrorism. It seems as others gain freedom we lose freedom. Maybe its a new law of physics, the amount of freedom in the world is a constant.
 
Tim that was it, the state of Louisiana. We went completly around this state. I never knew about the town in texas.
When this happened as the cop was walking away I get out of my car and yell at this officer. Here is how I handled this.

I was tired and needed sleep so I jump out of my car and ask the officer....Quote:

Officer is there a good place to get some sleep close by. He gives me a really stupid stare and says right there and points over my shoulder down the road about a mile.
I ask if its safe, after being caught up in that murder we where a little nervess about just stopping at anyplace. This murder happened at a hotel. he said yes its safe and gives me another really stupid look. I get back in the car.
So I stopped in this mans town and spent a little cash. It was late and I was tired anyway, then this cop pushed the issue by pulling us over. I felt it was a messege saying....Stop spend some money or it will cost you a lot more then just money. Like I said I never heard a thing about those tickets. before we laid down I looked out the window, guess whom I saw drive by in the parking lot, the same state cop whom just pulled us over.
I slept really good that night knowing he was out thier doing what he does. Here he just wrote me a few tickets for stuff I was not doing but I felt better knowing he was out thier. Imagine that.
 
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Skylane81E said:
This predates the war on terror, and they can take your car if it is used in the commission of a drug offense
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Seizure income for the Executive Branches of government is why we have 'the war on drugs' still.
 
Jim Logajan said:
I believe forfeiture of the R44 appears on page 4.
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"but that's not a criminal matter. That is a related "civil" matter." Very different. That means some Civil party extracted som damages, which would not be the feds....sow e don't have the whole story. Seizures for drug purposes are criminal, not civil. And if you have any doubt, go to Douglas AZ in a Cessna 205, coming from the south.
Interesting tidbits:
The plea agreement only mentions the one instance of registration change (page 7). Prosecutor didn't pursue flying without a current certificate - odd. Could be a simple case that they took pictures of the helicopter so had visual proof and witnesses of the reg change and that's all they needed to accomplish their goal of getting the helicopter out of his hands.
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bbchien said:
"but that's not a criminal matter. That is a related "civil" matter." Very different. That means some Civil party extracted som damages, which would not be the feds....sow e don't have the whole story. Seizures for drug purposes are criminal, not civil. And if you have any doubt, go to Douglas AZ in a Cessna 205, coming from the south.
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Bruce, if I'm not mistaken, if the government seizes assets (as they seized the R44), the owner must file a civil action to get the assets back. The way the document reads, it appears that the owner agreed not to pursue civil action against the government to recover the asset.

But I think it would be more appropriate if one of our lawyers would clarify.

http://www.progress.org/fold13.htm
 
Ron Levy said:
If you think driving your car to Walmart to shoplift a candy bar is "doing things with your car that match the patterns of drug dealers or terrorists," you aren't operating on the same wavelength as the law enforcement community (or anyone else with a lick of sense), and Al Qaiada isn't the issue.
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Yeah, law enforcement will never get it wrong and never muck up. That's why a member of this board was lied to by ATC, stopped by security agents and searched while pursuing lawful activity.

Yeah, I believe seized property funding saw enforcement. The only thing I can imagine keeping the War on Drugs going. Law Enforcement wins, we loose. No wonder the US is becoming a police state.
 
When they "DHS" started pushing for pilots and others around any airport to start reporting "Strange" activities, I myself wondered when something like this was going to happen.

I am sure we will see more of this as younger people come into aviation and see some of us older folks doing things the way we do them.

Us older folks seem to remember the days of freedom to do what one wants without others peaking over ones shoulder asking....What are you doing.
 
It is you old people that made these rules now you are going to blame young people for them. tsk tsk tsk
1600vw said:
When they "DHS" started pushing for pilots and others around any airport to start reporting "Strange" activities, I myself wondered when something like this was going to happen.

I am sure we will see more of this as younger people come into aviation and see some of us older folks doing things the way we do them.

Us older folks seem to remember the days of freedom to do what one wants without others peaking over ones shoulder asking....What are you doing.
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Jim Logajan said:
I just realized that story is dated November 2012. This is the story they posted today:

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2013/02/bill_stokely_oklahoma_ad-man_a.php
"The Oklahoman obtained his first private pilot rotorcraft certificate in 1987. Three years later, the FAA stripped it from him because of reckless flying. [...]

The FAA re-issued his chopper pilot's license in 1991. [...]"

In 2008, he failed a practical knowledge test and surrendered his license. He failed several subsequent tests; a limited students' certificate expired in 2010. Doctors thought he might be suffering from dementia, but Stokely claims he's fine. He says he's one of the most experience private chopper pilots in the country, with more than 13,000 hours of air-time."
​
Plea agreement, allegedly still to be agreed to by a judge: http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/griffin/NEWSon6/PDF/1302/stokely plea agreement.pdf
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Guess I did find the right guy -- William Ray Stokely, and he has no valid pilot certificate, so he was thoroughly illegal when he flew that helo by himself after his ticket was revoked. That sets the table for a civil penalty and potentialy seizure of any plane over which he has control if the FAA can convince a judge he's going to fly it again without a license. I'm reasonably certain that's why forfeiture of the aircraft was part of the deal to which he agreed.
 
Ron Levy said:
Guess I did find the right guy -- William Ray Stokely, and he has no valid pilot certificate, so he was thoroughly illegal when he flew that helo by himself after his ticket was revoked. That sets the table for a civil penalty and potentialy seizure of any plane over which he has control if the FAA can convince a judge he's going to fly it again without a license. I'm reasonably certain that's why forfeiture of the aircraft was part of the deal to which he agreed.
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And I am reasonably certain, he would fly it again if he got it back. :nono: It seems this guy is probably a self-made man that thinks the rules, including Mother Nature's rules of aging, don't apply to him. :dunno:
 
1600vw said:
Don't blame me I did not make these rules. :nono:
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If you are going to hold all young people as snitches it is only fair to hold all people of the age of lawmakers as fascists.
 
bartmc said:
A friend of mine, who's a NYC Jewish guy turned Buddhist and myself were driving through the metropolis of Nettleton MS and I got pulled over, he had a hemp wallet with some sort of Buddhist symbol on it. We almost missed our flight out o Memphis due to the extended conversation we had with the office about our weed smoking and occult activities.
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Weed smoking I can understand, but the occult is not illegal (and perhaps even constitutionally protected).
 
'noticed a lot of the "Surveillance" went on in Flagstaff in June & July... awfully hot in Phoenix during that time.... really nice in Flag.... hmmmmm?
 
N747JB said:
And I am reasonably certain, he would fly it again if he got it back. :nono: It seems this guy is probably a self-made man that thinks the rules, including Mother Nature's rules of aging, don't apply to him. :dunno:
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I'm thinking your analysis and the FAA's are in perfect sync. And I'm thinking the judge bought it, too.
 
He said he wasgoing to buy another helo. Mayne he will be smart enough to not keep it on an airport.
 
1600vw said:
Us older folks seem to remember the days of freedom to do what one wants without others peaking over ones shoulder asking....What are you doing.
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"I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Communist Party."

Bring back any memories of the "days of freedom?"

Sorry, dude, I've driven through the South -- from Georgia to California, not skipping any of the southern states you singled out -- and had a really different experience from you. It's not the friendliest place on Earth, but it's not Smokey and the Bandit either. I think there's something you're not telling, or you're just making up a yarn.
 
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MAKG1 said:
"

Sorry, dude, I've driven through the South -- from Georgia to California, not skipping any of the southern states you singled out -- and had a really different experience from you. It's not the friendliest place on Earth, but it's not Smokey and the Bandit either. I think there's something you're not telling, or you're just making up a yarn.
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I never make anything up nor do I lie.

I am happy you never had any problems in these areas. The program I watched that warned me about this area had around 12 grandma type ladies one there talking about how they lost everything they owned traveling through those parts. Law abidding people.

Again good for you, but tell that to the hundreds of others whom have had problems in that area of the country.
 
MAKG1 said:
"I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Communist Party."

Bring back any memories of the "days of freedom?"

Sorry, dude, I've driven through the South -- from Georgia to California, not skipping any of the southern states you singled out -- and had a really different experience from you. It's not the friendliest place on Earth, but it's not Smokey and the Bandit either. I think there's something you're not telling, or you're just making up a yarn.
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:yes: I live in Atlanta and while there certainly are speed traps in small towns, I have never heard of anything resembling that story, except on a movie or bad TV show. Now, if we are talking about 1950's or even 1960's in rural areas of the south and the OP is black, I can see it happening then. But, not so much in modern day America. :dunno:
 
N747JB said:
:yes: I live in Atlanta and while there certainly are speed traps in small towns, I have never heard of anything resembling that story, except on a movie or bad TV show. Now, if we are talking about 1950's or even 1960's in rural areas of the south and the OP is black, I can see it happening then. But, not so much in modern day America. :dunno:
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I can not believe you people have not heard about staying off route 10 in Louisiana. Look it up or google this then reply back. This happened in the late 1990 to early 2000. I would believe this is still going on. I watched a 60 min report on this back then after this happened to the wife and I.
The police get to keep anything they take from you, it goes straight to them, the officer that took it from you gets what he takes from you. Before you say he does not look this up. Its true.
 
MAKG1 said:
"I am not now, nor have I ever been, a member of the Communist Party."

Bring back any memories of the "days of freedom?"...
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And the ink was barely dry on the Constitution when the Alien and Sedition Acts were passed. :(
 
1600vw said:
...Look it up or google this then reply back...Before you say he does not look this up...
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I don't doubt your word, but why should others do research to prove your claims for you?
 
Palmpilot said:
I don't doubt your word, but why should others do research to prove your claims for you?
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First you are the one saying I am blowing smoke. I do not have to prove I am right, you must prove I am wrong.

If you are an American Citizen its your responsablity to know your history and research it for if you do not know your history you are bound to repete it.

If we as Citizens of this great country want change we must research and know our history. Now am I a history major, no not by any means. But if someone says something about our great country I do not believe I do not call them wrong until I research the subject.

Now lets all play nice. As my Mom would say.... :yesnod:
 
1600vw said:
First you are the one saying I am blowing smoke.
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I did NOT say that. I said I don't doubt your word. :confused:

As a general principle, I think that it's ineffective to ask others to do research to prove our points. I feel that this is true regardless of whether we're right or wrong.
 
Palmpilot said:
I did NOT say that. I said I don't doubt your word. :confused:

As a general principle, I think that it's ineffective to ask others to do research to prove our points. I feel that this is true regardless of whether we're right or wrong.
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One example, not what I was talking about but how would you like to be the one having your stuff taken all in the name of the.....WAR ON DRUGS...

http://jonathanturley.org/2012/05/2...isitors-in-policy-called-policing-for-profit/

here is another way to close to home for me...I will keep going...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/15/the-stop-bad-cops-drug-do_n_1968229.html
 
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As for speed traps, the deep south does not have a monopoly on them. I used to drive the New York to New Orleans Route at least 10 times a year, and got stopped once in Mississippi. The police officer took my license from me and would not return it. When I asked for it back he said something to the effect that he was not and I could discuss with the judge in the morning or be on my way, college boy. Never got the license back, it was lost, but they did drop the ticket. Oh and btw I was doing 55 mph and this police officer was tail gating me for about 20 miles and the second I went over 55 because I thought he was going to rearend me I was pulled over.

As for the deterioration of personal liberties in this country, there has always been prejudices and unwarrented "prosecution" in this country, however since the "war on drugs" and especially since the "war on terror" the systematic attack by the federal government on the bill of rights has escalated and things we used to take for granted are no longer there. I would propose that the loss of ours freedoms and liberties is worse now than it has been ever in the history of this once great country.
 
douglas393 said:
I would propose that the loss of ours freedoms and liberties is worse now than it has been ever in the history of this once great country.
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Then you need to study history.

In 1942, US citizens of Japanese descent were imprisoned for years without trial nor appeal nor even specific suspicion of anything, for the crime of having Japanese ancestors.

In 1902, even native born Chinese were "legally" required to carry a residence permit or face deportation.

Until 1865, slavery was not only legal, but protected by the Constitution.

In 1798, Congress made it a crime to oppose any act or official of the United States government, or to "defame" it in writing.
 
1600vw said:
One example, not what I was talking about but how would you like to be the one having your stuff taken all in the name of the.....WAR ON DRUGS...

http://jonathanturley.org/2012/05/2...isitors-in-policy-called-policing-for-profit/

here is another way to close to home for me...I will keep going...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/15/the-stop-bad-cops-drug-do_n_1968229.html
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Thanks for providing the references. I also saw the other thread you started.

My understanding is that the Supreme Court found a way to sidestep the Fifth Amendment to approve all this, but I think they have a very peculiar idea of what constitutes "due process." :mad:
 
douglas393 said:
Oh and btw I was doing 55 mph and this police officer was tail gating me for about 20 miles and the second I went over 55 because I thought he was going to rearend me I was pulled over.
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My reaction to anyone I even suspect might possibly be a cop getting in too close behind me is to drop 5 MPH and set the cruise. They can sit there all day long for all I care.
 
DaleB said:
My reaction to anyone I even suspect might possibly be a cop getting in too close behind me is to drop 5 MPH and set the cruise. They can sit there all day long for all I care.
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I was driving with my cruise on really close to the posted speed limit maybe off by 2 MPH. I had been driving for hours its the only way I drive just for this reason and this is what my wife kept saying to this..Bully.. really that is what he is and I bet he teaches his children and grandchildren the same ways. It will never stop my friends, bullying that is.

That is what my wife kept telling this officer and he did not like it one bit. He was rude and not at all someone whom you want to meet late at night on a dark street and he had a gun to boot.
 
Plea deal has him pleading guilty to changing his N number, forfeiting the chopper and not owning or flying any aircraft for the next two years, and they won't charge him with flying without a valid pilot certificate nor pursue the three years in prison or $250K fine they could have nailed him with.

Of course, giving up the chopper pretty much equates to a $250K fine anyway! :eek:
 
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