An Eccentric Ad Man Loses His Helicopter to the Feds

Any one of you reading this can be next. Easy to condemn him for his sins, but make no mistake they can take your stuff just as easy.
 
You have to give the guy an "A" for effort and creativity! Using black electrical tape to cover the N number to make it easier to clean after flying! :rofl::rofl:
Sounds like he plans on flying, medical or no medical, now they take his helicopter and he has to buy another one! :dunno:
 
ClimbnSink said:
Any one of you reading this can be next. Easy to condemn him for his sins, but make no mistake they can take your stuff just as easy.
Click to expand...

I agree, but it "appears" that he was flaunting the law, not just a simple misunderstanding, he altered the N number, buzzed a golf course, flew with a denied medical. Not a simple ramp check!:yikes: From the way they waited for him and had 6 officers there to arrest him, I would bet he has p#$$@d somebody off at the FAA. :yikes:
 
N747JB said:
I agree, but it "appears" that he was flaunting the law, not just a simple misunderstanding, he altered the N number, buzzed a golf course, flew with a denied medical. Not a simple ramp check!:yikes: From the way they waited for him and had 6 officers there to arrest him, I would bet he has p#$$@d somebody off at the FAA. :yikes:
Click to expand...

He didn't **** off someone at the FAA, he raised suspicions with DHS. Different ball game. Also note this is the second time recently where someone was told to land under false pretenses.
 
N747JB said:
I agree, but it "appears" that he was flaunting the law, not just a simple misunderstanding, he altered the N number, buzzed a golf course, flew with a denied medical. Not a simple ramp check!:yikes: From the way they waited for him and had 6 officers there to arrest him, I would bet he has p#$$@d somebody off at the FAA. :yikes:
Click to expand...

No, I don't think this is the case. They watched him for a few days, and the tape was removed before he (illegally) flew with no medical. They never caught him flying with the tape. The link posted goes to the second page of the article. Flip back and read the first page.

As far as I can tell, he is just guilty of flying without a medical.



Even worse, agents saw something that disturbed them when they visited Flagstaff's Pulliam Airport on October 17, 2011, to view Stokely's helicopter: The R44's official tail number, N7513Q, had been altered with a piece of black tape, making the "Q" look like an "O." No aircraft was registered under the altered number.

The next day, investigators watched as an "unidentified elderly man" — apparently Stokely — performed "some of type of work" on the chopper's tail, court records state. A day later, agents saw that the R44's tail number had been changed back to its registered number, and Stokely took off in the chopper with two other men. The airport's operation manager told agents that Stokely had informed Pulliam he'd be flying to Tulsa that day, with stops in Nevada and Utah.

The agents took the information to a grand jury, which on May 30, 2012, indicted Stokely for displaying a false or misleading registration on an aircraft and piloting the helicopter without a valid airman's certification.

But the feds needed a stronger case. Stokely's son, also a trained pilot, was next to Stokely in the chopper and could have been the pilot for the October 19, 2011, flight. According to Stokely, the U.S. Attorney's Office never told him about either the grand jury indictment or a subsequent arrest warrant.
Click to expand...

They kept watching him until they caught him flying solo. Then they confiscated the chopper and charged him with altering the tail number and flying w/o a medical.

They never saw him fly with the altered tail number, and they actually saw that the tape was removed prior to him flying the helo. Not sure how the altered tail number charge makes sense.
 
Last edited:
Calling an R44 a quarter-million dollar aircraft ...maybe if it was close to being timed out.

And that was pretty crappy of the controller to lie like that unless he'd been misinformed of the guys misdeeds.
 
In any event, the guy was in violation of Federal law regarding flying without proper certification, and even admitted doing so (although he seems to think a 10-minute test flight isn't really flying -- which isn't going to make a positive impression on a Federal judge). If he keeps suggesting he'll continue to fly without one, as the news story seems to say, there are various means for the FAA to deal with that, including civil penalties in the thousands of dollars, and potentially even having him jailed indefinitely for contempt of court if he flies again after a Federal judge orders him not to.

BTW, there are only two Stokelys in the FAA file with first name William, one of whom has to be at least 10 years older than this one (CP-ASMEL issued in 1947, so must be at least 84 now) and a William Ray Stokely of Tulsa OK who holds only a Student Pilot certificate issued in 2008. Only other Stokely in Oklahoma is Samuel Ray Stokely, also of Tulsa OK, with a CP-RH (perhaps Bill Stokely's son?). So, there may be more to the story than even the newspaper report has -- like flying with no pilot certificate, not just no medical.
 
Last edited:
Ron Levy said:
In any event, the guy was in violation of Federal law regarding flying without proper certification, and even admitted doing so (although he seems to think a 10-minute test flight isn't really flying -- which isn't going to make a positive impression on a Federal judge). If he keeps suggesting he'll continue to fly without one, as the news story seems to say, there are various means for the FAA to deal with that, including civil penalties in the thousands of dollars, and potentially even having him jailed indefinitely for contempt of court if he flies again after a Federal judge orders him not to.
Click to expand...

Or he can just move to Alaska
 
The confiscate your property for a civil offense? Is that what we're coming to?

Lets say an FAA guy routinely ramp checks me, and oh, I forgot to renew my medical, and it's two weeks out of date. They get to confiscate my personal property for this?
 
steingar said:
The confiscate your property for a civil offense?
Click to expand...
Actually, they can, in certain circumstances, with appropriate legal orders. Two examples are if you fail to pay a civil penalty for an FAA violation (they can take it and sell it to pay the penalty, and then give you what's left of the money), and if you keep flying your plane after being ordered to stop flying without a license.

Lets say an FAA guy routinely ramp checks me, and oh, I forgot to renew my medical, and it's two weeks out of date. They get to confiscate my personal property for this?
Click to expand...
No, they don't, and they can't, and I'm sure you realize that. But if you are doing things with your car that match the patterns of drug dealers or terrorists, and they arrest you, your car is going to the impound lot -- and that's well-established as legal, which I'm sure you know.
 
Wow - what a lot of effort to nail someone who the feds become suspicious might be flying without a current medical and possibly altering a tail number:

October 12, 2011: Initial report of suspicious activity by a helicopter owner.

October 17, 18, & 19, 2011: Agents discover initial reports unfounded. But they do discover the medical for the alleged pilot-owner is not current. Over the course of three days they find some tape on a tail number that appears to alter it. During surveillance they observe tape being removed before an actual flight. Story does not claim any flights to have occurred with altered tail number. Feds do observe a flight with 3 people where they think the non-medically current pilot-owner acted as pilot, but can't prove it since one other was also qualified to pilot. (Not sure if agents were aware that helicopters are generally piloted from the right seat.)

May 30, 2012 (6 months later! Why?) Feds get a grand jury indictment (and presumably an arrest warrant) against pilot-owner for false or misleading tail number and flying without a current medical. They do not immediately act on the warrant or indictment because they actually have no evidence to convict.

Based entirely on this chain of non-criminal events, agents begin surveillance of the airport (when they began surveillance is unclear - October or May?) in hopes of catching the pilot-owner piloting without a current medical.

July 30, 2012 (8 months later! Surveillance cost for this period is...?) The agents allegedly finally observe the pilot-owner flying the helicopter solo without a current medical. Agents direct ATC to lie to pilot so as to get him to return to airport, where he is arrested.

It isn't clear whether the feds ever saw the helicopter being flown with altered tail numbers or that that part of the indictment will be pursued by the prosecutor.

This is an incredible amount of labor and effort on the part of the feds with low chance of it all panning out. No wonder they wanted to seize the helicopter; they are unlikely to want to walk away empty handed for that amount of effort. Not sure why they pursued this.
 
dell30rb said:
No, I don't think this is the case. They watched him for a few days, and the tape was removed before he (illegally) flew with no medical. They never caught him flying with the tape. The link posted goes to the second page of the article. Flip back and read the first page.

As far as I can tell, he is just guilty of flying without a medical.





They kept watching him until they caught him flying solo. Then they confiscated the chopper and charged him with altering the tail number and flying w/o a medical.

They never saw him fly with the altered tail number, and they actually saw that the tape was removed prior to him flying the helo. Not sure how the altered tail number charge makes sense.
Click to expand...

That is not what the article said. It says they caught him with the tape on.

Stokely denies that he altered his tail number. He says he puts tape over the numbers to make them easier to clean after they've been dirtied by the helicopter's black exhaust smoke. After a flight, he'd strip off the tape to reveal the clean numbers — but on the day the agents observed him, he forgot to take off the little piece that covered part of the "Q."

"It was an accident," he maintains.
Click to expand...
 
The "after a flight" bit got me, does that mean it was his habit to cover the numbers before flight so they would be clean after?
 
John221us said:
That is not what the article said. It says they caught him with the tape on.
Click to expand...

The article isn't clear on that point - at least to me. The fact that they took 6 months to get a grand jury indictment from that accusation and another 2 months to observe his activities suggests the article's author has either neglected to state the event in which that violation allegedly occurred, or the article needs to be edited for clarity.
 
ClimbnSink said:
He didn't **** off someone at the FAA, he raised suspicions with DHS. Different ball game. Also note this is the second time recently where someone was told to land under false pretenses.
Click to expand...
DHS, or whoever was watching him put a LOT of effort and man power into this "investigation" I still think he either ****** somebody off or a friendly neighbor has an ear at DHS to complain to. :mad2:
I don't think they should have confiscated his helicopter, but he also shouldn't have been flying without a denied medical.:dunno:
I bet there is more to the story than we are seeing, I'd like to hear from a local, this guy may be the greatest pilot since Jimmy Doolittle, but I bet he's a character. :D No law against being a character, but when you ruffle too many feathers, you get somebody gunning for you, like Bob Hoover.:mad2::mad2: You don't have to be guilty, just suspected by the FAA. :mad2:
 
Ron Levy said:
No, they don't, and they can't, and I'm sure you realize that. But if you are doing things with your car that match the patterns of drug dealers or terrorists, and they arrest you, your car is going to the impound lot -- and that's well-established as legal, which I'm sure you know.
Click to expand...
So if I hang out with drug dealers because I am nuts and like their company, and they arrest me for shop lifting a candy bar at WalMart they can take away my car? Sometimes, and it seems more and more often, it seems to me Al Quaida and their irk won the war.
 
douglas393 said:
So if I hang out with drug dealers because I am nuts and like their company, and they arrest me for shop lifting a candy bar at WalMart they can take away my car? Sometimes, and it seems more and more often, it seems to me Al Quaida and their irk won the war.
Click to expand...

This predates the war on terror, and they can take your car if it is used in the commission of a drug offense
 
John221us said:
That is not what the article said. It says they caught him with the tape on.
Click to expand...

If he had tape over all of the numbers, in the shape of the numbers - they would appear legible so long as the tape was a different color than the paint around the helicopter.

Why would he remove the little bit of tape before he went flying? and then go fly with no tape on there? It specifically says he removed the little piece of tape before flying.
 
Skylane81E said:
This predates the war on terror, and they can take your car if it is used in the commission of a drug offense
Click to expand...
That is not how I interpreted Ron's comment, but maybe I misread it. Anyhow, okay if I hang with the local ecoterrorists(tree huggers) and buy very long and large nails at home depot.:dunno:

My point is more about how many personal liberties we have lost since 9-11 occurred, and how many more we seem to lose everyday. The US I live in is not the US I grew up in, and this is not is a good way, and I find that sad.
 
douglas393 said:
That is not how I interpreted Ron's comment, but maybe I misread it. Anyhow, okay if I hang with the local ecoterrorists(tree huggers) and buy very long and large nails at home depot.:dunno:

My point is more about how many personal liberties we have lost since 9-11 occurred, and how many more we seem to lose everyday. The US I live in is not the US I grew up in, and this is not is a good way, and I find that sad.
Click to expand...

Better example, on the drug front many narc units are self funded from seizures. Our local Sheriff's aviation unit is fully funded by drug related property sezizures.
 
steingar said:
The confiscate your property for a civil offense? Is that what we're coming to?

Lets say an FAA guy routinely ramp checks me, and oh, I forgot to renew my medical, and it's two weeks out of date. They get to confiscate my personal property for this?
Click to expand...

Skylane81E said:
Better example, on the drug front many narc units are self funded from seizures. Our local Sheriff's aviation unit is fully funded by drug related property sezizures.
Click to expand...

This happened within the last week:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/gameo...-for-marijuana/1923475/?morestories=obnetwork
 
douglas393 said:
So if I hang out with drug dealers because I am nuts and like their company, and they arrest me for shop lifting a candy bar at WalMart they can take away my car? Sometimes, and it seems more and more often, it seems to me Al Quaida and their irk won the war.
Click to expand...
If you think driving your car to Walmart to shoplift a candy bar is "doing things with your car that match the patterns of drug dealers or terrorists," you aren't operating on the same wavelength as the law enforcement community (or anyone else with a lick of sense), and Al Qaiada isn't the issue.
 
Skylane81E said:
Saddest part is that even had it been a pot leaf it would still have been legal.
Click to expand...

A friend of mine, who's a NYC Jewish guy turned Buddhist and myself were driving through the metropolis of Nettleton MS and I got pulled over, he had a hemp wallet with some sort of Buddhist symbol on it. We almost missed our flight out o Memphis due to the extended conversation we had with the office about our weed smoking and occult activities.
 
The cops are stupid and it shouldn't matter what bumper stickers you put on your car, but I always thought those dancing bear stickers just screamed 'drugs on board.'
 
ClimbnSink said:
The cops are stupid and it shouldn't matter what bumper stickers you put on your car, but I always thought those dancing bear stickers just screamed 'drugs on board.'
Click to expand...

Funny, I've always thought the "support your troopers" ones did.

I've seen 2 planes painted in deadhead imagery, one was "out there man".
 
dell30rb said:
If he had tape over all of the numbers, in the shape of the numbers - they would appear legible so long as the tape was a different color than the paint around the helicopter.

Why would he remove the little bit of tape before he went flying? and then go fly with no tape on there? It specifically says he removed the little piece of tape before flying.
Click to expand...

Oh come on. It clearly says it made the Q appear to be an O and that he "forgot to remove" on that flight. I am not saying this guy deserved to lose his helicopter, but he obviously is operating by his own rules.
 
The only issue I have with the entire thing is that the guy said he was flying school kids...apparently without a medical and maybe even without a license.

My opinion on older guys who fly without a medical has always been: Go ahead, knock yourself out, SOLO, Just don't take unwitting passengers with you.
 
Re bumper stickers,

Here they teach what stickers should raise an eyebrow in the academy, but strongly caution that they are not sufficient to make a traffic stop and do not give PC for a search. Profiling works, just gets a bad name because of the racial kind.
 
John221us said:
Oh come on. It clearly says it made the Q appear to be an O and that he "forgot to remove" on that flight. I am not saying this guy deserved to lose his helicopter, but he obviously is operating by his own rules.
Click to expand...

Read carefully. Article does not state or suggest the chopper was flown with the altered tail number.
 
Last edited:
geneseib said:
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2012...ic-ad-man-loses-his-helicopter-to-the-feds/2/


First page at:
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/2012-11-29/news/an-eccentric-ad-man-loses-his-helicopter-to-the-feds/
Click to expand...

I just realized that story is dated November 2012. This is the story they posted today:

http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/valleyfever/2013/02/bill_stokely_oklahoma_ad-man_a.php
"The Oklahoman obtained his first private pilot rotorcraft certificate in 1987. Three years later, the FAA stripped it from him because of reckless flying. [...]
The FAA re-issued his chopper pilot's license in 1991. [...]"
In 2008, he failed a practical knowledge test and surrendered his license. He failed several subsequent tests; a limited students' certificate expired in 2010. Doctors thought he might be suffering from dementia, but Stokely claims he's fine. He says he's one of the most experience private chopper pilots in the country, with more than 13,000 hours of air-time."
​
Plea agreement, allegedly still to be agreed to by a judge: http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/griffin/NEWSon6/PDF/1302/stokely plea agreement.pdf
 
709 ride in 2008? Wonder what the story is behind that. If 13,000 hours is true that is a friggin ton of recreational helo time. Consider him rightfully hung if you want, when they take your airplane I'm sure the news story will have something sufficiently damming so no one will care.
 
"Finally, Stokely also denies he has dementia, chalking up his failures to convince FAA doctors that he was flight-worthy to nervousness and poor math skills. On the contrary, he says, he's in great shape and "very few men can stay with me mentally or physically."

I have a number of airmen who have made this same comment. And then you watch them nearly hit others at the pumps, act in a totally non-situationally aware manner, cut folks off on final, etc etc. We have two who have recently been "grounded but seen to continue".

And then when their medical expires due to uncertificable A-fib, they continue to fly.

Um. There's another side to this story. And in the plea agreement there is no seizure.
 
Last edited:
Bruce do you think dhs was doing the faa bidding or just random that they found a rogue pilot?
 
bbchien said:
And in the plea agreement there is no seizure.
Click to expand...

I believe forfeiture of the R44 appears on page 4.

Interesting tidbits:
The plea agreement only mentions the one instance of registration change (page 7). Prosecutor didn't pursue flying without a current certificate - odd. Could be a simple case that they took pictures of the helicopter so had visual proof and witnesses of the reg change and that's all they needed to accomplish their goal of getting the helicopter out of his hands.
 
Ron Levy said:
If you think driving your car to Walmart to shoplift a candy bar is "doing things with your car that match the patterns of drug dealers or terrorists," you aren't operating on the same wavelength as the law enforcement community (or anyone else with a lick of sense), and Al Qaiada isn't the issue.
Click to expand...
No the point was more I hang out with the drug dealers and then get arrested for something else such as shoplifting at Walmart. As far as I know they can take away your belongings if they decide that the belongings, your car for example, were obtained with the profits of an illegal enterprise. So here I am Jo Stupid caught at Walmart with my hand in the candy jar, and now because of my association with drug dealers they take the car as well. I do not think it could happen, but then again in Florida, get caught with a fish undersize, or one fish over your daily limit and they have and will take away the boat you are on, even if it is not your boat. I have seen it happen to a friend. As far as the slow but progressive loss of personal liberties in this country, to me it started on 9-11 and has worsened significantly since then. Certainly Al Qaida is not the issue with property seizures, but I think it certainly a part of the cause of the loss of personal liberties.

As far as the common sensibilities of the law enforcement community that seems to be mutually exclusive sometimes to me.
 
Last edited:
Mimor nitpick the freedoms you speak of were lost pre 911 in the war on drugs.
 
My wife and I where traveling in our new sports car on route 10 out of Florida one day back in the early 2000.
We stopped at a gas station for gas and was asked where we where going. I said back to California. Every person in that gas station said at the same time. Do not go through that state. I can not remember what state, seems to me to be alabama. But they said the police will take everything you have including that nice little sportscar you are driving.
We went around the state. It may not have been alabama but one of those states. That was one of the worse trips across this country I have ever been on.
We were caught in the middle of a murder in Indiana. Was told the police will take all our stuff in another state. Then had a cop in texas write us tickets for things we did not do. Accused us of all sorts of stuff and thought my new little sports car was stolen, he asked where did I get a car like this and just where did I work. When I mentioned I worked for Pebble Beach golf course he got ****ed, thinking I was being a smart ass. The wife and I both worked thier. She started getting ****ed and started arguing with this man. I told her this was not the time, 12 midnight in the middle of texas somewhere. I said we will fight this in court.
After getting back to Pebble I started working on these tickets. The tickets where never turned in. To this day I have never heard a thing about these tickets and I never paid them.
the police can do as they want, unless you are like this man in the story with pocket full of money you will go to jail or they"the police" will leave you alone for you have nothing they want. Sometimes I believe its better to have nothing they want.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top