An AOPA WTF pie chart

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by timwinters, Feb 3, 2019.

  1. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Rolling my eyes hard. :rolleyes:

    AOPA has owned N4GA for a long time - That isn't the first jet to bear that number, and Mark Baker is at least the third AOPA president to fly it.

    AOPA owns a fleet of airplanes, and employs pilots. If they can't justify doing so, then it'd be awfully hard for them to tell everyone else that it's justified.

    Among all of the things AOPA does with their money, buying airplanes and fuel is among the ones I'm most OK with.
     
  2. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    This experiment has been fun. When I ask the accounting types they add up the percentages and say "that's not 100%" but when I ask the coders they say "that's not 54%"

    Thanks AOPA!
     
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  3. NealRomeoGolf

    NealRomeoGolf Line Up and Wait

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    You have bad accountants.
     
  4. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    I'm the consultant. If they were better accountants I'd be living in the streets!
     
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  5. Dana

    Dana Line Up and Wait

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    But what portion of the 54% is composed of those who don't have an airframe parachute, but choose to self identify as having one? :rolleyes:
     
  6. Dav8or

    Dav8or Final Approach

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    Really? You think you are better than others so much so that you can laugh at people in that movie and the AOPA folks, yet you typed this sentence?? Some people don't know math very well and others don't know english very well. :rolleyes:
     
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  7. Ghery

    Ghery Final Approach

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    First, this is based on a poll that was on AOPA's eBrief daily email. I get it and remember this poll.

    Second, if you simply use the integer parts of the answer numbers without rounding, this is possible.

    Good grief, this isn't an end of the world scenario. I voted NO on the poll because the club isn't likely to pay to put chutes on our 172s and 182, and I wouldn't be happy with the hit on empty weight if they did. Not a reason they give, but that was the basis for my answer.
     
  8. Unit74

    Unit74 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    It’s why I tore up my dues letter and threw the card in the trash this year. I dont think he and AOPA really needs to spend our money in that manner. My oh my has being a nonprofit become a rather nice venture to them. If they wanted to impress me, fly their personally owned plane and claim it as a business expense like the rest of us.




    Right. You want to drill down to the thousandths decimal on syntax because that’s all you got. Pu-lease.... that’s weak. Perhaps I should audit your posts a bit and see what you wrote.
     
  9. wanttaja

    wanttaja En-Route

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    I learned a long time ago that if the percentages in a chart don't add up to exactly 100%, the editor will likely get some complaints. So I'm either careful with the rounding (to ensure the integers add up to 100%) or ensure there's some sort of disclaimer as to why they don't (usually because a given accident can have more than one contributing factor).

    Ron Wanttaja
     
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  10. timwinters

    timwinters Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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    Except how do you possibly not catch something that obvious? The error smacked me upside the head as soon as I saw it. Deep analysis not required.

    I assume at least two sets of eyes had perused that before it went to press. Or do you not have editors look at copy before it goes to press? Does anyone in the "AOPA Pilot" organization have a math background at all? If not, maybe you should ban pie charts from your magazine (and anything else that requires synapses be firing on the left side of the brain).

    Most pilots are left brained (at least I certainly hope they are) and will catch errors this egregiously obvious.

    You haven't been serving your organization very well with your responses here of late my friend.
     
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  11. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    They made a goof. A graphics 'typo'.
    Hardly worth the shaming, pages of comment, "AOPA is awful" nonsense.
    "Let he who has never goofed, step forward."
     
  12. MichiPilot

    MichiPilot Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Go look and see how much is being paid to Mr. Baker for utilizing his own aircraft on the member dime. I don't mind spending some money and travelling GA...but now getting reimbursed for his own aircraft in addition to the company owned ones is BS
     
  13. Dav8or

    Dav8or Final Approach

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    We live in hateful times and haters have hate.
     
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  14. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Pie charts should probably be banned, period. The number of times they're actually done well approaches zero.

    Strongly disagree. We all love to bitch about AOPA with all kinds of false "data" to back up our positions, and I'm really glad @TomHaines is bringing some semblance of reality to the discussion. At least that way, we can skewer them for legitimate reasons and maybe make them better, instead of sitting here in our little righteously indignant bubble.

    Can you provide a reference, or is this just speculation? I couldn't find anything about him being reimbursed.
     
  15. wanttaja

    wanttaja En-Route

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    I agree it's minor, and there is a lot of over-reaction.

    But...

    I'd be curious as to how the "typo" occurred. The artist had the percentages...54%, 41%, and 1%. I'd just like to know how that massively incorrect pie chart resulted. Obviously, Excel or any other mathematical tool wasn't involved, they would have gotten the proportions right. The only thing I can think of is that the graphic artist used another pie chart as a template but didn't change the proportions. I can see that happening if they generated what they considered a "placeholder" but didn't go back to update it to the appropriate values.

    I've seen cases where the graphical depiction of data was manipulated to favor one side or the other, but I don't think this would be such a case. The other instances had correct data but set max/mins, used logarithmic scales, etc. to make one side seem a lot worse.

    Ron Wanttaja
     
  16. SoCal RV Flyer

    SoCal RV Flyer Pattern Altitude

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    I think they should be allowed, provided the viewers are given actual pie, maybe through DoorDash or something. Banana cream for me, please!
     
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  17. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner En-Route

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    love your use of irony to make your point. ;)
     
  18. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach

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    Meh. It happens, even to the best organizations.
    [​IMG]

    Add up the percentages of this one...comes to 120%:
    [​IMG]
     
  19. DutchRoller

    DutchRoller Ejection Handle Pulled

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    :confused:
    Huh, so which of those organizations do you put in the category of best?
     
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  20. Salty

    Salty En-Route PoA Supporter

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  21. timwinters

    timwinters Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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    Ignorance is bliss
     
  22. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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  23. TomHaines

    TomHaines Pre-takeoff checklist

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    We have a very effective editorial production process. There is no way we could produce 24 issues a year--AOPA PILOT and Flight Training--mostly error free without it. There are multiple reviews, but every once in a while not all the components make it to the page until late in the process and something slips by. After all, we are dealing with mere humans here, not the folks prowling forums like this one.

    This was not a math problem. The same data and the correct pie chart ran in AOPA Aviation eBrief. A graphic artist was using the data to create a pie chart in the magazine's style and color palette and somehow it made it onto the page incomplete. And, probably because it was picked up from another publication, it did not get the scrutiny it usually does from the editors, most of whom are pilots, by the way--left brainers just like you.

    When we have an error we acknowledge it right away and correct it. A correction for this is in the March issue, which will be out soon.

    Regarding "something that obvious," you do know that doctors sometimes amputate the wrong limbs from people, right?

    "You haven't been serving your organization very well with your responses here of late my friend."

    A few days ago you called me and my staff of publishing professionals "idiots" after a rather inconsequential error. You actually used that word. And now we're "friends"? Hmmm.
     
  24. ebetancourt

    ebetancourt Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I just truly don't understand all the griping about AOPA. It's an organization. Join or don't. I choose to, think it's a bargain. Some don't, and that's fair. Baker seems to do a pretty good job. He has a board to oversee him. If you are a member and don't like what you see, take it up with AOPA. Write Baker, write the board. Join the forum and make suggestions there.
    If you are not a member, why the hell do you need to express your opinion? Frankly, I can't imagine anyone caring.
     
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  25. DutchRoller

    DutchRoller Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Just to clear the air, I made a rather crass remark about journalists and graphics folks on this thread but I did not intend it to be an attack on AOPA. I’m a member and am pretty satisfied with them overall. Keep up the good work @TomHaines.
     
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  26. timwinters

    timwinters Ejection Handle Pulled PoA Supporter

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    Jonathan Swift is rolling his eyes.
     
  27. BrianNC

    BrianNC Pattern Altitude

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    Seriously. Tough room.
     
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  28. MichiPilot

    MichiPilot Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Yes, go read the financial report.
     
  29. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    WHAT financial report? Link, please.
     
  30. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    @TomHaines

    I am glad you have thick skin; and thanks for taking the time to reply. Overall, i like what AOPA does; and when I disagree I do call in (instead of posting about it).

    Tim
     
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  31. MichiPilot

    MichiPilot Pre-takeoff checklist

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  32. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    OK, so he owns airplanes. That's part of what qualifies him as the leader of the AIRCRAFT OWNERS and Pilots Association...

    In 2017, the year for which you're apparently complaining about, he owned a Cessna 185 (doesn't burn Jet-A), a Howard (doesn't burn Jet-A) and an early TBM 700 (s/n 91). Since the TBM is the only thing that burns Jet-A, presumably that's what you're complaining about, but that's a much more efficient aircraft than N4GA is, so I'm not sure why you have the complaint. Should we spend more just so he can fly the AOPA-owned hardware more? :dunno:

    You want to complain, why not complain about his over $2mil annual salary? Presumably that's what allowed him to sell the TBM and buy himself a CJ1 (which, BTW, still burns less fuel than the CJ3 that AOPA owns...) and a Caravan and a Baron?

    But, this appears to have been Baker's habit before he started at AOPA as well. Guy sure goes through a lot of airplanes. https://prijet.com/owner/BAKER PLANES LLC?owner=BAKER+PLANES+LLC
     
  33. weilke

    weilke Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The things people can get worked up about.
     
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