Am I Jinxed, or is the C172RG Just a Crappy, Unreliable Airplane???

DavidWhite said:
Oh look, it's another "The Cessna single-engine retract I'm flying is a giant pile of ****" thread. Jim, I could have told you to stay away from those things buddy. Lol. Find an old beater arrow to rent, they seem to be a lot less likely to kill you, burn you, or just randomly catch on fire.
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lol. I'm not renting, it; I fly it for an aero photography charter since it has great endurance. Well, actually, I do rent it as well I guess; Going to the family Easter with it across the state. I think the improved cruise speed is worth it for only $5 more than the S-model rental cost.

Update: Just talked to the mechanic. Couldn't replicate. Ain't that how it always works? It's up flying now, and will be doing a checkride shortly, so we'll see if the issue happens again.

Oh, and I found out the first issue with the electrical failure was due to a 3 year old battery that was extremely low on fluid. Is that not something that's checked during 100-hrs?
 
I don't think there is any difference between the gear in a NA Arrow and the Turbo Arrow, and except for the simplicity of the Johnson Bar in the Mooney is one of the simplest gear designs out there. If the power pack fails you simply pull a lever and bleed the hydraulic pressure and the gear falls using gravity.

Not sure how the Arrow got drug into this!!
 
tmyers said:
I don't think there is any difference between the gear in a NA Arrow and the Turbo Arrow, and except for the simplicity of the Johnson Bar in the Mooney is one of the simplest gear designs out there. If the power pack fails you simply pull a lever and bleed the hydraulic pressure and the gear falls using gravity.

Not sure how the Arrow got drug into this!!
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It's comparable to the 172RG and a much better airplane.
 
If they actually would fix the thing...

Then again maybe they are trying. Our old RG was neglected for a while before maintenance standards were improved (about a year before I started with the company) and it took a while to get all the gremlins out of the silly thing.

Oddly the gear was not on the list of gremlins.
 
tmyers said:
I don't think there is any difference between the gear in a NA Arrow and the Turbo Arrow, and except for the simplicity of the Johnson Bar in the Mooney is one of the simplest gear designs out there. If the power pack fails you simply pull a lever and bleed the hydraulic pressure and the gear falls using gravity.

Not sure how the Arrow got drug into this!!
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The biggest problem I have with arrow gear is two words
"Auto extend"
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
Oh, and I found out the first issue with the electrical failure was due to a 3 year old battery that was extremely low on fluid. Is that not something that's checked during 100-hrs?
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I'm going out on a limb here,

Two parts to your statement, I suspect the first one to be false, I doubt that that was the cause of the failure, just the reason the battery couldn't keep up after power started to go

Second, yes they are checked, but if it was extremely low perhaps something else is going on in the electrical system, regulator perhaps? Does the ship have a voltmeter?
 
tmyers said:
Not sure how the Arrow got drug into this!!
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It was probably my fault...I made the comment that the 172RG fleet (generally speaking) ridden hard and put away wet much like the Arrow fleet due to the fact they are the mainstay airframes for complex and commercial flight training. Doesn't mean either is a bad design....just that there are more beaters out there than cream puffs.
 
tmyers said:
I don't think there is any difference between the gear in a NA Arrow and the Turbo Arrow, and except for the simplicity of the Johnson Bar in the Mooney is one of the simplest gear designs out there. If the power pack fails you simply pull a lever and bleed the hydraulic pressure and the gear falls using gravity.

Not sure how the Arrow got drug into this!!
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In the M20J you pull the breaker and then repeatedly pull a cord 20 times like you are starting a lawnmower
 
dell30rb said:
In the M20J you pull the breaker and then repeatedly pull a cord 20 times like you are starting a lawnmower
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Not the most robust system in all honesty, but if you remember to follow directions and actually pull the breaker it does work.
 
Skylane81E said:
I'm going out on a limb here,

Two parts to your statement, I suspect the first one to be false, I doubt that that was the cause of the failure, just the reason the battery couldn't keep up after power started to go

Second, yes they are checked, but if it was extremely low perhaps something else is going on in the electrical system, regulator perhaps? Does the ship have a voltmeter?
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:yeahthat:

Water just doesn't disappear from a battery in a 100 hours unless there is charging issues. Overcharging will boil a battery...
 
Skylane81E said:
I'm going out on a limb here,

Two parts to your statement, I suspect the first one to be false, I doubt that that was the cause of the failure, just the reason the battery couldn't keep up after power started to go

Second, yes they are checked, but if it was extremely low perhaps something else is going on in the electrical system, regulator perhaps? Does the ship have a voltmeter?
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That's just what I was told my MX. Yes, there is a voltmeter, and it was showing normal on run-up. They said once the voltage dropped too far then the battery, being low on fluid, wouldn't be able to power it. Swapped in a new battery, and it worked great. I dunno, that's just what I was told.
 
JimNtexas said:
The 177RG is better in almost all respects than a C172RG. I will say that the C172RG gear system is a bit more robust than the 177RG, but then again, the gear motor is in the engine compartment, which has drawbacks compared to putting it in the tailcone as the 177RG does.

But other than that, the C177RG is superior in all respects to the 172RG and the non-turbo Arrow.

Disregard anything you hear about Cardinals from anyone who hasn't actually owned one.

The OP is flying a trainer with (I suspect) many thousands of hours and minimal maintenance. That's what flight schools can afford, its the same at every flight school that isn't under contract to an airline.
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I'm checking out in a 177RG right now. Seems like a fairly capable aircraft. I don't like that I can't check they hydraulic fluid, and if it happens to be low, the emergency gear extension doesn't work. I also really don't like the weight and balance. It's a bit slow to start and stop on the roll. But it cruises a little faster (and has a higher service limit) than a 182Q and the visibility is wonderful for a Cessna.

I see this thing as a decent cross-country airplane and a very good sightseeing airplane, not just a trainer.
 
MAKG1 said:
I'm checking out in a 177RG right now. Seems like a fairly capable aircraft. I don't like that I can't check they hydraulic fluid, and if it happens to be low, the emergency gear extension doesn't work. I also really don't like the weight and balance. It's a bit slow to start and stop on the roll. But it cruises a little faster (and has a higher service limit) than a 182Q and the visibility is wonderful for a Cessna.

I see this thing as a decent cross-country airplane and a very good sightseeing airplane, not just a trainer.
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177's are sweet airplanes. The only thing that could be better is a bigger engine and that's where the 210 comes in.
 
I'm glad the Arrow did get hauled into this --- it was the only retractable I ever had problems with.
 
If you like 210s you'd love a Bonanza. Flying a Bonanza is like driving a Cadillac, if I had the need of a slightly larger airplane the Bonanza would be the only choice, IMO.

I do like the sports car feel of my Mooney though. If you like driving dump trucks for fun then the 210 is the airplane for you.
 
HighFlyingA380 said:
That's just what I was told my MX. Yes, there is a voltmeter, and it was showing normal on run-up. They said once the voltage dropped too far then the battery, being low on fluid, wouldn't be able to power it. Swapped in a new battery, and it worked great. I dunno, that's just what I was told.
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Check the voltage in flight, report back, both to us and to maintenance.

They are correct in what they told you, but the next question, why did the voltage drop so low the weakened battery couldn't keep up?
 
DavidWhite said:
If you like 210s you'd love a Bonanza. Flying a Bonanza is like driving a Cadillac, if I had the need of a slightly larger airplane the Bonanza would be the only choice, IMO.

I do like the sports car feel of my Mooney though. If you like driving dump trucks for fun then the 210 is the airplane for you.
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Crawling over wings is stupid plain and simple. Lotta nice airplanes were built that way but its not for me. Makes R&R of the interior for MX more difficult and laying on your back reasonably comfy with you head under the instrument panel impossible.

A 210 does fly like a dump truck :lol:, which is nothing like it's little brother the 177RG. Go figure.
 
denverpilot said:
And many are still running with proper maintenance.
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Got data?

Fearless Tower said:
It was probably my fault...I made the comment that the 172RG fleet (generally speaking) ridden hard and put away wet much like the Arrow fleet due to the fact they are the mainstay airframes for complex and commercial flight training. Doesn't mean either is a bad design....just that there are more beaters out there than cream puffs.
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Whoa! Someone here taking blame for thread creep?!?!?! Not at PoA!!!:D
 
bnt83 said:
No it's NOT.

The powerpack, including the electricly driven hydraulic pump and motor, is mounted in the cabin forward of the center pedestal.
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Dude! Meet me at KAUS, T-hanger C2, and I'll show you where the C177 hydraulic pump is.

Hint: It's in the tail cone right next to the battery:

8602005970_59c6b30544_o.jpg
 
JimNtexas said:
Dude! Meet me at KAUS, T-hanger C2, and I'll show you where the C177 hydraulic pump is.

Hint: It's in the tail cone right next to the battery:

8602005970_59c6b30544_o.jpg
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Jim, I think you need to go back and re-read his whole post, not just what you quoted. He was referring to the 172RG in that snippet you quoted. He correctly pointed out in the same post that the Cardinal's is in the tailcone.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
N801BH said:
Hmmm..

So all the QS 900 numbers planes are junk ???:dunno:...

Maybe you should Email Warren Buffet and let him know..
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Yeah, I'm sure Buffet owns billions in junk airplanes.... :rolleyes:




Excuse me while I go flying.... in my 182RG. Wish me luck! :lol:
 
denverpilot said:
No, if they're doing proper gear maintenance and *replacing worn out parts* it shouldn't be happening to anyone.

The biggest problem with Cessna retracts is people not taking proper care of them and consulting an expert in type about what wears out and needs preemptive replacement instead of waiting for a gear failure.

Most Cessna retract owners don't want to spend the money.
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Which is why you co-share in a stiff leg 182, right? :rolleyes2:....

.... Just messing with ya. I'm on the market for a FG 182. I'm that cheapskate owner you speak of. I'll gladly tote my family around on 12GPH @ 130TAS for the privilege of never having to worry about the hassle of leaving a wonky gear contraption on the runway somewhere off-station, insurance check be damned. Airplanes nickle and dime ya anyways, might as well mitigate the number of things that nickle and dime ya. :D
 
Fearless Tower said:
Jim, I think you need to go back and re-read his whole post, not just what you quoted. He was referring to the 172RG in that snippet you quoted. He correctly pointed out in the same post that the Cardinal's is in the tailcone.
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That's not the way I read post #33, but as long as we all agree where the C177RG gear motor resides it's all good.

There are enough old wives tales about the Cardinal out there without starting another one!
 
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