Always verify flaps visually

[Tommy3]

I landed in a C152 at a remote airport. Full flaps, uneventful landing.

I taxied around for takeoff and went through the checklist, which included setting the flaps at 0.

After rotating I notice that I'm having a helluva hard time climbing. The plane is climbing, slowly, but really struggling. Let's see: carb heat is off, mixture is rich, flaps set to 0. . . . Except I happen to glance out the window and see that the flaps are still fully down. The flap lever somehow got disconnected from the flaps (the little nub that shows flap position stayed at 30, but I failed to notice it).

Anyway, the lesson is to always check visually that the flaps are doing what you want after making a change to them. In any other plane I think I might have had an accident. In the C152 I was able to limp home in slow flight.

 

[denverpilot]

Yup. Been there, done that, at night ...

Flap handle moves, head turns and looks out the window in anything I can actually see the flaps in... after that little lift-off, decide there's enough runway, land, stand on brakes... "Teachable moment."

 

[azure]

After rotating I notice that I'm having a helluva hard time climbing. The plane is climbing, slowly, but really struggling. Let's see: carb heat is off, mixture is rich, flaps set to 0. . . . Except I happen to glance out the window and see that the flaps are still fully down. The flap lever somehow got disconnected from the flaps (the little nub that shows flap position stayed at 30, but I failed to notice it).

If the flaps fail to retract, or retract only part way, the first thing on your troubleshooting list should be: CHECK CIRCUIT BREAKERS.

 

[steingar]

One of the things I always hated about Cessnas. Those flap motors can break, and do. I much prefer the Johnson bar in my Cherokee. Hard to not know what the flaps are set at.

 

[ScottM]

If the flaps fail to retract, or retract only part way, the first thing on your troubleshooting list should be: CHECK CIRCUIT BREAKERS.

That would not be a good thing to do on my Cherokee :wink2:

 

[EppyGA]

If the flaps fail to retract, or retract only part way, the first thing on your troubleshooting list should be: CHECK CIRCUIT BREAKERS.

Not in my Warrior :wink2:

 

[flyingron]

You didn't have to look at the flaps, you had only to look at the indicator which was still showing the flaps down.

In my plane there is no indicator short of the flaps themselves. I always look.

One other thing to check with the older style (flipper) cessna flap switches. While you have to hold them down they will latch in the retract position. One time on landing I must have been sloppy pulling my finger off the down position and it went up and latched up. Couldn't figure out why I was going faster on short final.

 

[BiffJ]

not all cessnas have electric flaps and most of us with the manual variety chose them specifically (1960 175A). It still makes sense to have a look out the window though just as the original poster noted. You never know when a cable might break or hang up and rolling the airplane is not fun on short final. You do this on runup to check control direction and freedom right? Flaps should be on the list too and they're easy to check.

Frank

 

[flyingron]

The older 170/172/175 manual flaps you don't need to look out the window. You can feel their effect from as you pull the lever. I loved the feedback you got on those.

 

[Dan Thomas]

If the flaps fail to retract, or retract only part way, the first thing on your troubleshooting list should be: CHECK CIRCUIT BREAKERS.

Exactly. But in this case I suspect a bad microswitch in one of two places: Either the Up switch on the lever/follower assembly behind the panel, or the Up Stop switch on the flap motor/actuator. That latter one gets oil and crud in it from overlubricating the actuator screw and doesn't close, preventing retraction.

Dan

 

[kgruber]

There is no real need to ever use flaps in a Cessna 152, except in an emergency.

 

[Jay Honeck]

Another reason to love the Ercoupe.

 

[azure]

That would not be a good thing to do on my Cherokee :wink2:

Right, but the OP said this was a 152...

 

[Sac Arrow]

I had a similar thing happen once. Except, it wasn't the flaps slowing the airplane down, it was the gear. A hydraulic line ruptured causing a partial extension of the gear. Took a few minutes to figure that one out. Fortunately was able to get the gear fully down with the manual extension lever.

 

[azure]

I had a similar thing happen once. Except, it wasn't the flaps slowing the airplane down, it was the gear. A hydraulic line ruptured causing a partial extension of the gear. Took a few minutes to figure that one out. Fortunately was able to get the gear fully down with the manual extension lever.

Yikes! If that ever happens in my Cardinal it will probably be a very expensive landing. From discussions on CFO it seems that although one of the certification requirements is to have a reservoir of hydraulic fluid that the pump can't pump overboard in case of line rupture, most Cardinals no longer have this safety feature. I can't fathom why any mechanic would replace the gear system with a less safe (and presumably aftermarket) version, but that's what I'm understanding (or maybe misunderstanding).

Knowing this I have my gear running light in my scan now -- and if it ever comes on for any length of time in cruise I know to pull the gear pump CB to keep from losing the ability to get my gear down.

</derail>

 

[Ghery]

If the flaps fail to retract, or retract only part way, the first thing on your troubleshooting list should be: CHECK CIRCUIT BREAKERS.

That would not be a good thing to do on my Cherokee :wink2:

Not in my Warrior :wink2:

Nor in the club's Arrow.

Right, but the OP said this was a 152...

True, but that didn't stop the Piper crowd from chiming in. And CHECK CIRCUIT BREAKERS is the second thing to check in the Arrow if you don't get 3 green lights after selecting gear down.

 

[Sac Arrow]

Yikes! If that ever happens in my Cardinal it will probably be a very expensive landing. From discussions on CFO it seems that although one of the certification requirements is to have a reservoir of hydraulic fluid that the pump can't pump overboard in case of line rupture, most Cardinals no longer have this safety feature. I can't fathom why any mechanic would replace the gear system with a less safe (and presumably aftermarket) version, but that's what I'm understanding (or maybe misunderstanding).

Knowing this I have my gear running light in my scan now -- and if it ever comes on for any length of time in cruise I know to pull the gear pump CB to keep from losing the ability to get my gear down.

</derail>

Fortunately (for me) Piper landing gear will drop and lock on its own if all hydraulic pressure is removed. I've had to use that feature two other times - once for a hydraulic pump failure, and another time for a failure of the landing gear switch.

 

[Skylane81E]

Yikes! If that ever happens in my Cardinal it will probably be a very expensive landing. From discussions on CFO it seems that although one of the certification requirements is to have a reservoir of hydraulic fluid that the pump can't pump overboard in case of line rupture, most Cardinals no longer have this safety feature. I can't fathom why any mechanic would replace the gear system with a less safe (and presumably aftermarket) version, but that's what I'm understanding (or maybe misunderstanding).

Knowing this I have my gear running light in my scan now -- and if it ever comes on for any length of time in cruise I know to pull the gear pump CB to keep from losing the ability to get my gear down.

</derail>

Hmm, had that happen once on a 172RG of ours and while it filled the cabin with smoke (plastic overflow tube runs next to overheated motor...) the stand pipe did it's job and kept some fluid in there.

You can also often "shake" the gear down. I've done it on an arrow that sprung a leak and stopped me from pumping the gear down. Mains locked with the emergency extention but the nose didn't as it wasn't all the way up and it didn't get any momentum and couldn't fully lock. A sharp G load got me down safe.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

I just flew a 152 and the flap motor broke (circuit breakers checked, not the cause).

I had to do a no-flap landing and it was with Mari (everskyward) on our flight back from the coast.

Not only was the no-flap landing "not a big deal" - but I actually never felt my wheels kiss the ground. First time that has ever happened to me.

However, the plane was out of service for about a week or more. I feel bad that I "broke" the rental plane . . . or rather it was out with me when the motor gave up.

 

[zaitcev]

One of the things I always hated about Cessnas. Those flap motors can break, and do. I much prefer the Johnson bar in my Cherokee. Hard to not know what the flaps are set at.

That's what I thought, too, until Cherokee's flaps unlatched and retracted with a loud slam on me. Good thing I was still within the green arc.

 

[Everskyward]

Not only was the no-flap landing "not a big deal" - but I actually never felt my wheels kiss the ground. First time that has ever happened to me.

That was a very smooth landing.

However, the plane was out of service for about a week or more. I feel bad that I "broke" the rental plane . . . or rather it was out with me when the motor gave up.

So it actually was the motor. I was hoping it was just a connection or something. I'll bet they were too.

 

[denverpilot]

Would be interesting to know if it was the original motor. How many years service did it give?

If 30+, I'd say they got their money's worth out of it!

I think I'd want to have a look-see at the flap system for binding too, as well as the flap-tracks and their wear. Motors wearing out is often a sign that something is making the motor work too hard.

Cessnas flown hard as trainers (flap extension at Vfe and... Gasp!... Above...) commonly see flap-track wear going beyond limits.

McFarlane sells a cheap but accurate track wear gauge. If it fits in the slot, the track needs to be replaced. Cracks at the attach points, especially the rear, seem to happen more regularly these days as the Cessna fleet ages, too.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

That was a very smooth landing.

So it actually was the motor. I was hoping it was just a connection or something. I'll bet they were too.

Oh actually no - I mean I don't know - I didn't talk to the mechanic. All I know is that the girl at the front desk told me it was down for quite a while - and that is their primary trainer, booked every day, so I assumed it was something more serious than just a connection. Next time I talk to them I will find out.

And thanks for the comment about the landing! I flew with another POAer (sort of spur of the moment) on Saturday and I cannot say those wheels kissed when I landed - oh, well. I had only 12 hours total time in a 172 and it was at night in an unfamiliar airport. With you, we had a perfect day, calm winds, and I was in a plane I had almost 100 hours total time in and over 200 landings (the beloved 152).

 

[BellyUpFish]

I guess this only works on planes equipped to allow the pilot to see the flaps..

 

[Pilawt]

I guess this only works on planes equipped to allow the pilot to see the flaps..

In IMC that would be a good way to induce vertigo ...

 

[BellyUpFish]

I'd have to go back to about row 12 to see the flaps.

 

[denverpilot]

I'd have to go back to about row 12 to see the flaps.

Heh, 12 rows in your RV?

 

[flyingron]

Another reason to love the Ercoupe.

But you do have to check to make sure the passenger doesn't have his arm sticking out the window.

 

[BellyUpFish]

Heh, 12 rows in your RV?

It's a stretch. RV-6S

 

[dell30rb]

One of the things I always hated about Cessnas. Those flap motors can break, and do. I much prefer the Johnson bar in my Cherokee. Hard to not know what the flaps are set at.

I like the Johnson bar much better.

I've had em stick in a 152 before but it was at altitude during my primary training with my instructor.

I make normal landings in the cessnas with 20 degrees of flaps. They land nicely at this setting and if the flaps stick during a go-around I won't be in too much trouble.

I flew with a 152 owner this weekend who said they stuck at 30 degrees once and he had to limp it home.