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wbarnhill

wbarnhill

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I've booked a flight to Europe this upcoming weekend (first overseas trip...) and I think I've made a grave error in my planning. I arrive at London-Gatwick North terminal at 6:55am (hopefully) on Delta 12 from Atlanta, and I have a connecting flight that is 1 hour and 45 minutes later from the south terminal on Norwegian.

Considering I won't have checked luggage (and it's still in the air whether I'll have to leave the secured side or not since Gatwick's site says international-international flights don't hit immigrations and customs but others say that doesn't matter because Norwegian is a 'low cost airline' so i'll have to anyway) do I have any hope of making that flight?

Note that these two flights are on separate tickets...
 
Look up the Gatwick web site and see if it provides any useful information. I've only used that airport one trip and that was in 1992. We arrived and left from there so I don't know what it's like changing from one terminal to the other.

Now, if you want to know about walking briskly through ZRH to make a connection when your incoming flight is late, I have very recent experience with that (like, today).
 
Normally, airlines won't book you for a connection you're not likely to make -- that gets expensive for them. Did you make one reservation for the whole trip, or were the two flights booked separately?
 
Ron Levy said:
Normally, airlines won't book you for a connection you're not likely to make -- that gets expensive for them. Did you make one reservation for the whole trip, or were the two flights booked separately?
Click to expand...

Two separately. Was a heck of a lot cheaper, but those savings may disappear real quick if I can't make it. For whatever reason I looked up the minimum connection times at Gatwick (site says 75 minutes) and assumed that an extra 25 minutes would be fine, especially just going from gate to gate on the air side.

Now it's really looking like I'll have to pass through security/immigration to get to the public area where check-in is for Norwegian, and I've got to be checked in 45 minutes before the flight leaves, so that gives me an hour for the plane to land/taxi, disembark, catch the bus to the other terminal (15 - 20 minutes), pass through security/immigration, and check-in before passing back through security in order to get to the gate. My flight and another is scheduled to arrive at the same time, about 15 - 20 minutes after the last one arrived, so I'm hoping that the queues will be minimal maybe...
 
Ron Levy said:
Normally, airlines won't book you for a connection you're not likely to make -- that gets expensive for them. Did you make one reservation for the whole trip, or were the two flights booked separately?
Click to expand...

That's actually untrue, especially for the London area airports.

Ticketing rules do, indeed, have a minimum connection time, but I've had connections (legal under the fare construction and the fare rules) offered of 85 minutes, T3-T5, at Heathrow, which is possible if you are carry-on only, an early flight in, elite oneworld status, and in F/J classes. (I've done T3-T5 in as little as 30 minutes, cabin door-open to lounge check in, but I'm extremely familiar with Heathrow and walk at a very brisk pace, and I carry top-tier oneworld status)

I wouldn't be nervous, William, but I would plan: carry-on only (good!), have your documents ready and prepared for inter-line reticketing (I think they do that at LGW), and go directly to your gate when you arrive at the south terminal. Move with purpose and keep your eyes open. The British drown every possible open space with a sign, so it's hard to get lost (or trip, or electrocuted, or shot)

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
astanley said:
That's actually untrue, especially for the London area airports.

Ticketing rules do, indeed, have a minimum connection time, but I've had connections (legal under the fare construction and the fare rules) offered of 85 minutes, T3-T5, at Heathrow, which is possible if you are carry-on only, an early flight in, elite oneworld status, and in F/J classes. (I've done T3-T5 in as little as 30 minutes, cabin door-open to lounge check in, but I'm extremely familiar with Heathrow and walk at a very brisk pace, and I carry top-tier oneworld status)

I wouldn't be nervous, William, but I would plan: carry-on only (good!), have your documents ready and prepared for inter-line reticketing (I think they do that at LGW), and go directly to your gate when you arrive at the south terminal. Move with purpose and keep your eyes open. The British drown every possible open space with a sign, so it's hard to get lost (or trip, or electrocuted, or shot)

Cheers,

-Andrew
Click to expand...

I keep hoping that I'll make it through unscathed, I just wanted to see what others thought. I don't have to go through the luggage claim, but it does look like I'm going to have to go through security because I have to check in at Norwegian at the kiosk or counter.

And to make matters worse, just looked up my reservation, and I'm sitting in the last row on the 767, just in front of the lav. :mad2:
 
Better yet, just don't go to Europe! :D
 
wbarnhill said:
And to make matters worse, just looked up my reservation, and I'm sitting in the last row on the 767, just in front of the lav. :mad2:
Click to expand...

Oops - I was going to tell you not to worry, until you threw that last tidbit in. I'd work on changing that seat. That, or barge up the aisle at max warp speed as the plane stops at the gate.
 
flyersfan31 said:
Oops - I was going to tell you not to worry, until you threw that last tidbit in. I'd work on changing that seat. That, or barge up the aisle at max warp speed as the plane stops at the gate.
Click to expand...

Yeah. It can take 20+ minutes to make it from last row to the door. The airline may not give you any love since you ticketed each seg separately, but, I would still call and plead the case.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
flyersfan31 said:
Oops - I was going to tell you not to worry, until you threw that last tidbit in. I'd work on changing that seat. That, or barge up the aisle at max warp speed as the plane stops at the gate.
Click to expand...

Luckily I have a friend that works for Delta... I didn't know if he could help, but I asked at lunch... few minutes later I got a revised itinerary. Moved from the last row to the first row in coach.

SCORE!(board? :D)
 
Ron Levy said:
Bad juju, and unwise to have booked it as separate flights/tickets. Best not to do that again.
Click to expand...

What he said. While you can land some great deals this way, you can quickly be "left out in a storm", as the case may be. If I was top-tier on two airlines, I would be more likely to do it, because I could pull weight with both sides of the transaction.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
Ron Levy said:
Bad juju, and unwise to have booked it as separate flights/tickets. Best not to do that again.
Click to expand...

My first flight out of the country, made hastily, I know not the rules... I took the connection times listed for Gatwick and the fact they said Int'l - Int'l flights didn't have to go through customs/immigration to be a good sign. Now learning that the airport's page doesn't cover all cases (particularly with regard to check-in), so yeah... in any case this is a lesson learned, I'm just hoping it doesn't involve a hit to my wallet to correct. :redface:
 
wbarnhill said:
My first flight out of the country, made hastily, I know not the rules... I took the connection times listed for Gatwick and the fact they said Int'l - Int'l flights didn't have to go through customs/immigration to be a good sign. Now learning that the airport's page doesn't cover all cases (particularly with regard to check-in), so yeah... in any case this is a lesson learned, I'm just hoping it doesn't involve a hit to my wallet to correct. :redface:
Click to expand...

Don't worry, relax. We've ALL been in your shoes one flight or another. Move quickly, pay attention, and be prepared at every interchange. (I wear a suit jacket for this exact reason, in one of my front pockets goes my boarding pass, itinerary, passport, and a small amount of money). You will be blown away by the sheer number of signs in the UK -- I believe that the sign lobby has the UK government by the bollocks. 90% of people will not be paying attention, and the airport is (to some extent) designed this way. Comfortable shoes, move with purpose, read the signs :)

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
wbarnhill said:
Luckily I have a friend that works for Delta... I didn't know if he could help, but I asked at lunch... few minutes later I got a revised itinerary. Moved from the last row to the first row in coach.

SCORE!(board? :D)
Click to expand...

Also remember that your checked bags need to make their way across the airport and from one carrier to another. If you really need your bags when you arrive at your destination, you might want to change flights. But if you can wait some amount of time to get your bags, I guess you'll be OK.


Trapper John
 
astanley said:
Don't worry, relax. We've ALL been in your shoes one flight or another. Move quickly, pay attention, and be prepared at every interchange. (I wear a suit jacket for this exact reason, in one of my front pockets goes my boarding pass, itinerary, passport, and a small amount of money). You will be blown away by the sheer number of signs in the UK -- I believe that the sign lobby has the UK government by the bollocks. 90% of people will not be paying attention, and the airport is (to some extent) designed this way. Comfortable shoes, move with purpose, read the signs :)

Cheers,

-Andrew
Click to expand...

Will do :) Thanks for the advice!
 
simpsons-doh.jpg
 
Ron Levy said:
Normally, airlines won't book you for a connection you're not likely to make -- that gets expensive for them. Did you make one reservation for the whole trip, or were the two flights booked separately?
Click to expand...

Unless you are Air France...
 
wbarnhill said:
Two separately. Was a heck of a lot cheaper, but those savings may disappear real quick if I can't make it. For whatever reason I looked up the minimum connection times at Gatwick (site says 75 minutes) and assumed that an extra 25 minutes would be fine, especially just going from gate to gate on the air side.

Now it's really looking like I'll have to pass through security/immigration to get to the public area where check-in is for Norwegian, and I've got to be checked in 45 minutes before the flight leaves, so that gives me an hour for the plane to land/taxi, disembark, catch the bus to the other terminal (15 - 20 minutes), pass through security/immigration, and check-in before passing back through security in order to get to the gate. My flight and another is scheduled to arrive at the same time, about 15 - 20 minutes after the last one arrived, so I'm hoping that the queues will be minimal maybe...
Click to expand...

As per what I told you last week... :sleep:
 
wbarnhill said:
Luckily I have a friend that works for Delta... I didn't know if he could help, but I asked at lunch... few minutes later I got a revised itinerary. Moved from the last row to the first row in coach.

SCORE!(board? :D)
Click to expand...

YES!!!!!! Well done. Keep those elbows high and sharp, you still need to beat up folks in the terminal!

Have fun.
 
woodstock said:
Unless you are Air France...
Click to expand...

I want to delve into this a bit.

Most every fare construction has a minimum connection time (MCT). But that connection time is, usually, absurdly low -- an O class fare for RIC to MXP, of which LHR is a valid connecting city (as is BRU, LGW, MAD) has a 60 MCT. This is the least restrictive MCT of the possible connecting cities -- however a MCT for T3 to T5 at LHR is 120. Therefore, the airline will readily sell me a 85 minute CT fare construction, and it will "pass muster".

Ron is technically correct in that they will not sell you an airfare that does not pass the MCT for the airfare, but the airfare MCT rules can be entirely different from the facility MCTs. Which means, if you are ticketed inter-line, you may hold a piece of paper that violates the airline MCT for the facility, even though it was technically "legal". (This isn't as much of a problem in Europe, where "passenger rights" are serious business. In the US, however, it's one of the many ways airlines can generate revenue...)

So, most any airline will do this, and it behooves the international traveler to do a bit of research - ESPECIALLY if this is their first international trip. I had a 120 CT AF FLR-CDG-BOS and my bags never made it -- because my flight was one of dreaded "satellite stand" flights, which had me sprinting to my gate just to make boarding. If I had known that, I would have departed on the earlier AF flight, even though the thought of a 3.5 hour layover was unappealing at the time.

Cheers,

-Andrew
frequent flier
 
flyersfan31 said:
YES!!!!!! Well done. Keep those elbows high and sharp, you still need to beat up folks in the terminal!

Have fun.
Click to expand...

Yeah. That's especially true at 0600 in the morning in a European airport. Every idiot in Bermuda shorts will be ambling throughout the airport, lost, head cocked over, like little video game sprites that are programmed only to impede your journey.

Heathrow, unlike most any other airport in the EU, at 0600 feels like a contraption that Temple Grandin designed. Heaven is an empty corner table at Wagamama in T5 at 0800, when everyone is 75 people deep in line at Pret-a-Manger.

Cheers,

-Andrew
 
Just hope you don't get a window seat like mine on my SEA-ORD leg on Monday. Beautiful clear day over most of the route, but you wouldn't have known. :mad2: And I was suposed to have had 11C, a nice aisle seat, but for some reason got moved to 13A.
 

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For the record, I made my connection. Oddly enough, I had more time to make that connection than I did to make the connection at ATL. By the time I got to the gate at ATL, they started boarding.

I think I set a new record though... about 35 minutes to deplane, transfer between terminals, go through arrivals and immigration/customs (that was interesting, and I ended up with a departure stamp from Gatwick without an arrival stamp... in the end I don't think many people at Gatwick are aware of the issues with the low-cost airliners requiring check-in.), go through check in, stand in the bag drop line, then go to departures, go through security, and finally get to the proper gate.

But now I'm at a friend's place in Oslo and finally able to relax a little.
 
If you run into the girls from the Norwegian Bikini Team, tell them I said "Yo."


:lol:
 
Resurrecting this thread to ask advice... I need to go from Cleveland to Phoenix in mid June. Price narrows the decision down to Delta through Cincinnati and Frontier through Denver. I've never really flown anything but Continental (being from Cleveland and all). Any thoughts as to which airline would be the least dreadful ride?
 
bluesky74656 said:
Resurrecting this thread to ask advice... I need to go from Cleveland to Phoenix in mid June. Price narrows the decision down to Delta through Cincinnati and Frontier through Denver. I've never really flown anything but Continental (being from Cleveland and all). Any thoughts as to which airline would be the least dreadful ride?
Click to expand...

Hmmm Delta or So'west...with that choice I'd consider hitchhiking...

Okay not really. DEN isn't too bad from the inside and with So'west it'll all be on one concourse. Dunno 'bout Cincinnati...
 
bluesky74656 said:
Resurrecting this thread to ask advice... I need to go from Cleveland to Phoenix in mid June. Price narrows the decision down to Delta through Cincinnati and Frontier through Denver. I've never really flown anything but Continental (being from Cleveland and all). Any thoughts as to which airline would be the least dreadful ride?
Click to expand...
six of one, half dozen of the other.....

Both airports are fine and easy to move around in for a transfer. Both airlines are ok, but I know Delta a little better. I have no status on either and have been treated as steerage by both.
 
I suggest heavy drinking. And the trip is sufficiently long to allow you to run dry the aircraft's stores.
 
Delta will probably be CRJ death tubes through CVG (they may be running a real plane to PHX). Frontier is running a mix.

My bet is that Frontier will be marginally more comfortable as they use slightly larger planes.

What about nearby airports like Akron, etc?
 
Frontier is flying out of Akron. I had never really researched them, so I was hoping they might be one of those smaller airlines with really great service.

I actually found a Continental flight leaving the night before for roughly the same price as either of those. It's a direct flight, and gives me an excuse to stay an extra night in a resort hotel enjoying the fantastic Arizona weather.

It might just be the home town loyalty talking, but I've more often then not been happy on Continental. I can think of only one bad experience, where weather delays and mechanical failures meant that I arrived at 1am rather than 8pm. But other than that, I've been treated well by gate agents (with no appreciable status), the planes are nice and they generally arrive on time. I really hope this continues under United, but the newspapers are already predicting that we're going to lose our hub. Time will tell.

Thanks for the advice.
 
Frontier (Republic/Midwest) is all on one concourse in Denver too.
 
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