Allstate Insurance “Sucker” List

denverpilot

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The database driven dystopian future.

Say you’re a good little payer of your insurance and you also appear to have significant assets...

Allstate says, hell... if that’s the case, charge them more than everybody else! Hold my algorithm based beer!

https://themarkup.org/allstates-algorithm/2020/02/25/car-insurance-suckers-list

Maryland and Consumer Reports, caught them.

“When The Markup and Consumer Reports conducted a statistical analysis of the Maryland documents, we found that, despite the purported complexity of Allstate’s price-adjustment algorithm, it was actually simple: It resulted in a suckers list of Maryland customers who were big spenders and would squeeze more money out of them than others.”
 
Thought up by pleasant folks with the same attitude as @Clip4. Rich folks shouldn’t sweat a few extra bucks. They should just pay it because they’re rich and it’s “peanuts” to them.
 
It's patriotic to overpay for goods and services. If you're not in debt, you're not a good citizen.
 
Insurance companies are generally the root of all evil, worse than banks and credit card companies

I would gladly take my chances through life without any insurance if the laws and government didn't require it.. in my whole adult life I've never needed it

and if I ever do need it or get sick I'm sure Blue Cross will find a way to pay as little of it as possible
 
From a statistics point of view, it's doubly funny. I'd expect those with the most assets to be least likely to file a minor claim, even if entitled to do so, and just pay out of pocket instead.

Allstate: Let's punish our most profitable clients.

...come to think of it, when I've received their quotes in the past, this seems about right. Those "good hands" have light fingers. They can stay out of MY wallet. :D
 
The database driven dystopian future.

Say you’re a good little payer of your insurance and you also appear to have significant assets...

Allstate says, hell... if that’s the case, charge them more than everybody else! Hold my algorithm based beer!

https://themarkup.org/allstates-algorithm/2020/02/25/car-insurance-suckers-list

Maryland and Consumer Reports, caught them.

“When The Markup and Consumer Reports conducted a statistical analysis of the Maryland documents, we found that, despite the purported complexity of Allstate’s price-adjustment algorithm, it was actually simple: It resulted in a suckers list of Maryland customers who were big spenders and would squeeze more money out of them than others.”
So it's a free-market-based scheme!
 
Farmers just settled a 52 million suit in Texas for a similar practice...it’s more common than we know
 
Farmers just settled a 52 million suit in Texas for a similar practice...it’s more common than we know

Dang it..!!!

I quit Farmers about 40 years ago for not covering my vehicle an accident I had with an uninsured driver. It was the other drivers fault, and I paid extra for uninsured driver insurance.

Look at all the money I missed out on.....
 
My initial impression based on the headline was that Allstate was compiling data from third party sources to ascertain wealth and then adjust premiums based on your income bracket. A very dirty practice indeed.

After reading the article I better understand that they just decided to make larger adjustments to customers already paying high premiums vs. those with smaller premiums with the reasoning that those with the lower premiums would be more likely to bail to another company.

I would be leery of any regulation that would control how a company decides to make price adjustments. It’s not like none of the clients couldn’t just get another insurer if they were unhappy.
 
I would be leery of any regulation that would control how a company decides to make price adjustments. It’s not like none of the clients couldn’t just get another insurer if they were unhappy.

Would you be less leery if you remembered it’s a government mandated product? :)

Two ways that actually fails...

Many insurers won’t quote at all if they see claims in the previous three years. Or they’ll quote so high you won’t switch. Either way, you’re in for a mandatory three years at not just higher rates, but artificially inflated higher rates by demographic data that says you’ll pay.

(They’ll essentially trap you at their buddy. Their buddy does the same for them. Wink wink.)

Secondarily, all insurers are moving to these “algorithm based” models AND they already share claim and coverage data. It’s becoming unavoidable. Just like the so called “credit score”. Certain things just shouldn’t be allowed in the algorithm.

Not sure if you’ve quoted coverage recently but it’s a shared database. VIN and done. They know everything about the vehicle, you (now including income level and other information easily gleaned from other demographic data, like address, etc), and such. It’s really rare to have a human involved in a serious manual underwriting process. It’s just a computer score.

They’ll even pull the description of your house and photos of it if you’re quoting homeowners.

(It’s often Google Street View photos, too. Two separate companies wouldn’t quote my house due to lack of Google photos in a rural area. One said flat no. The other said they could send a third party photo company in three weeks. Hmm. I get poorer service because Google cars don’t drive my street? Yeah... you can eff right off and cancel the coverage quote request... bye now.)

Merged databases means they’re not really different companies with different research and data competing. They’re just different storefronts and marketing slapped on the same product. The computer is deciding using data from a shared database. The call center person you’re talking to when you call isn’t a licensed insurance professional. They just enter data and the computer spits out the price and policy.

Which NFL quarterback and commercials do you like? Haha. Those commercials and golf tournaments aren’t cheap. Pay up! :)

Kinda like the news that Intuit just purchased CreditKarma. They want the data from a credit scoring company to merge it with their lending company. Much easier than paying a third party for it.

Insurers also use credit scores already, by the way. Should say, GEICO be allowed to buy Experian or TransUnion?

It’s the next natural database merge... why not? Your insurer needs access to your payment history and asset information to know you’re responsible, right? :)

I don’t mind them covering losses and pricing accordingly but I do mind if the neighbor pays less because he has a smaller savings account for identical coverage.

Regulators of a mandatory product can regulate the crap out of that, and ban it, all week long, and twice on Sunday. You don’t have the option not to purchase, especially with the games mentioned above.

Beware. I know about that claim game because one well known insurer turns in towing claims to the shared database. No accident or real loss involved. Don’t buy the cheap towing coverage with auto insurance. It’ll turn into that three year lock in.

Let’s just say they know how to scam customers, because they’ve scammed a million or two. :)

I’m sure if cornered, they’d say it was a mistake. But good luck getting it out of the database... their agents don’t know about it. They’ll turn in a “ticket” with someone. That person will respond saying they didn’t do it, the underwriter did. Good luck reaching the underwriter. Or for that matter a regulator who cares.

Did I mention the agent is already mad that you’re leaving? That’ll speed up return calls! Haha.

Months to remove garbage like that. If at all. Agent can’t fix it. Back room can’t fix it. And we say “merge” but it’s not a true database merge. It’s a lookup and copy. Once it’s gone you have to hound the call center person to re-query at the competition. They don’t know how. Or don’t have access to. Another ticket. Another back room that might be able to or not.

Or won’t because now they really don’t trust you. Who calls and knows how our databases work?! LOL.

“You didn’t meet the standard algorithm model... based on bad data in our shared database. We Don’t know how to remove it. Here’s your new inflated price for government mandated coverage from every underwriter.”

^^ That’s already here. ^^

Aren’t computers great? :)
 
People don’t think insurance companies be like they be
 
Just like a casino, the house always wins in the long run.
 
Dang it..!!!

I quit Farmers about 40 years ago for not covering my vehicle an accident I had with an uninsured driver. It was the other drivers fault, and I paid extra for uninsured driver insurance.

Look at all the money I missed out on.....
What money? The lawyers got all but the pile of $0.50 discount coupons handed out to policy holders, I'm sure. That's how class action suits generally play (and pay) out.
 
I’d like to know how they determine your wealth. Credit score is based on whether you can pay your bills. I guess they could monitor CC spending, but I pay everything via CC if at all possible, so my CC spending will be higher than average.
 
I’d like to know how they determine your wealth. Credit score is based on whether you can pay your bills. I guess they could monitor CC spending, but I pay everything via CC if at all possible, so my CC spending will be higher than average.

Zip code. It's amazing what the Target Group Index knows about you.
Allstate, the cold hands people.
 
Differential pricing is a common strategy. why be so shocked about it in insurance products? There's plenty of competition in auto insurance, even if it is mandated.

What I hate are strategies like AARP (Hartford) that lowball you for a couple years, then stick it to you when they think you're not looking.
 
I shop car insurance just like I shop any other purchase. If I get wealthy to the point that I can't be bothered to shop around anymore - that's on me, not them.
 
Just like a casino, the house always wins in the long run.

Speaking of casinos, they all advertise that everyone is a winner. Since I have never won a single cent, can I sue for false advertising.??

The local casino here has sucked up every loose penny for miles around. Lots of small businesses are gone because the folks that can't afford to lose money go to the casino and lose all their money. Yet people don't complain about that.
 
They're socializing the risk anyway, why not increase th socialization using wealth?

Just wait until gun owners insurance becomes mandatory.

BTW, the airlines do something similar. Some price higher for the elite members of their FF program than a random person. There are folks who have run tests that the price is higher when logged in to an airline's frequent fly site than it is if you're not logged in.

And while we're at it, shall we talk about folks that charge businesses more than they charge individuals? Phone companies, Internet/cable, etc. Around here, at least one county prohibits people from parking commercial vehicles (including cars with commercial tags) in residential areas overnight.
 
I shop car insurance just like I shop any other purchase. If I get wealthy to the point that I can't be bothered to shop around anymore - that's on me, not them.

I think there is one key point that makes the situation different from shopping for other purchases -- it's required by law to buy car insurance.

So it's not like other purchases, where your wealth and whims might be all that determine whether you shop around and buy.

As mentioned in the article, there are some who are no longer able to shop around, after they bought their initial policy -- a cancer patient with other things to deal with was mentioned as an example. So there's a reason for the state insurance regulator to look out for such a customer.
 
Apparently rich people are more susceptible to MAYHEM than the poor in their opinion...

...har...

After forty years of dealing with insurance companies, my rule of thumb was the funnier the TV commercials, the worse the company.

You may be right about that. I enjoy the Allstate commercials, but I would never buy insurance from the "Good hands - whoops!" people.
 
Is one company better than all of the rest? I say they are all bad to differing degrees of bad. Like most money makers, it is a scam.
 
Is one company better than all of the rest? I say they are all bad to differing degrees of bad. Like most money makers, it is a scam.

Even USAA, once the gold standard, is not the company it was but they did handle incident of the hit and run driver that got me in Dec very well. Of course they've had 33 years of my money with I think 3 claims all of which were less than $3K so they're way ahead.
 
Even USAA, once the gold standard, is not the company it was but they did handle incident of the hit and run driver that got me in Dec very well. Of course they've had 33 years of my money with I think 3 claims all of which were less than $3K so they're way ahead.
Sadly, a lot of truth here.
Partnered with Liberty Mutual.

Who made me lawyer up to get a work comp settlement instead of agreeing to pay the state scheduled amount. Cost them, and their policy holders (a mutual company) 5X$ of the scheduled amount.

So stupid DOES hurt... Them more than me.
 
Last year I got my quote for renewing my auto and homeowner's insurance and complained about it being higher, and said I wasn't going to renew and would look elsewhere.

Suddenly a "New underwriting program" popped up and my rates dropped. Gee...
 
I enjoy the Allstate commercials, but I would never buy insurance from the "Good hands - whoops!" people.

Numerous years ago...in Springfield, MO...a homeowner erected a big banner on their backyard privacy fence that read "American Family paid for what Allstate would not." This fence was backed up to one of the main roads coming into town. Apparently, enough people called the local NBC affiliate asking WTF? that the station finally ran a story on it.

the story...

A drunk driver ran off the road, thru the fence and into the folks' backyard.

the driver had Allstate insurance. They wouldn't cover the claim because the fence builder had centered the 4x4 fence posts on the property/ROW line...thus the fence was encroaching 2" (+/-) onto the ROW.

the homeowner had Am Fam homeowners insurance and they covered it.

this was at least 20 years ago but I swore off ever doing business with Allstate.
 
Insurance companies are generally the root of all evil, worse than banks and credit card companies

I would gladly take my chances through life without any insurance if the laws and government didn't require it.. in my whole adult life I've never needed it

and if I ever do need it or get sick I'm sure Blue Cross will find a way to pay as little of it as possible
So you don't have car insurance or insure your plane? What about homeowner's? Not required by law.
 
So you don't have car insurance or insure your plane? What about homeowner's? Not required by law.
unfortunately I do have car insurance because it's required, I have health insurance because it's required, and homeowners yes as well because it's required by the lender..

In principle insurance is a fantastic concept..

In practice.. the reality of how it's actually managed is a little different. It is not entirely unexpected, these are, after all, for-profit businesses

I would be willing to assume the higher risk and put away the equivalent money myself into some sort of escrow or savings account that I spend now on insurance.. at this point, 33, I'd have something like $300,000 sitting in said account, and that's assuming zero interest or gains. my employer is not actually giving me free insurance, they're just paying me that much less salary, when you think about it, to pay for my insurance. That's a decent chunk of change, but certainly not enough to cover every potential a real insurance policy might, but at least I would know where the money is, and would be a risk I'd be willing to accept
 
It is.?? By who.??
California maybe? I'm actually not sure, but I seem to recall when I did my taxes last year I had to prove health insurance else there was a fine
 
unfortunately I do have car insurance because it's required, I have health insurance because it's required, and homeowners yes as well because it's required by the lender..
Car insurance is not required. In fact, you can self insure, just as you said you wanted to. Even in California.
You only need sufficient homeowner's coverage to insure the lender's interest. In fact, the lender would purchase that on its own (at your expense) if you didn't. But you certainly don't need coverage on the contents, liability coverage, etc. You can self insure all of that.
And the penalty for not having health insurance was eliminated as of last year.
I would be willing to assume the higher risk and put away the equivalent money myself into some sort of escrow or savings account that I spend now on insurance.. at this point, 33, I'd have something like $300,000 sitting in said account, and that's assuming zero interest or gains.
You can, actually, do this. Frankly, if you really can afford to, self insuring isn't dumb. But you could be really lucky or really unlucky.
 
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