All examinees of DPE Edward L. Lane to be required to re-test

Discussion in 'Flight Following' started by denverpilot, Sep 27, 2012.

  1. denverpilot

    denverpilot Taxi to Parking

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  2. Gubbins

    Gubbins Ejection Handle Pulled

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    So does anyone know why? That would suck!
     
  3. ainokea

    ainokea Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Wonder if this guy is still a DPE. Came across his videos awhile back when I was learning about short/soft field TO/landings. Uploaded around a year ago.

    Here's another article on this guy.

    http://www.ainonline.com/comment/2221
     
  4. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    huh - the letter says the 709 ride will "... consist of a complete practical test as set forth in the appropriate practical test standard (PTS) for the applicable certificate or rating."

    Sounds like the DPE was not eligible to be giving the tests between 2009 - 2011. He must have had some paperwork problems. I wonder what the deal was, too?
     
  5. jjflys

    jjflys Pre-takeoff checklist

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    So who's paying for all of these 709 rides? I'd be ****ed if I got such a letter…
     
  6. EppyGA

    EppyGA Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Not eligible and it took the government two years to figure it out?
     
  7. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I was thinking about trying to pass a practical test again. I spent a lot of time prepping for it then. I'm sure there are things on the PTS that I would consider "no brainers" now, but I'd be pretty paranoid about messing up something that I could do well then, but am out of practice on now.
     
  8. Tom-D

    Tom-D Ejection Handle Pulled

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    Let's say you are ready to take a practical exam for your next rating, could you take that test as the required ride in this notice?
     
  9. AuntPeggy

    AuntPeggy Final Approach

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    Are all the pilot's licenses immediately suspended? I see that they have 30 days to respond, but I cannot find whether they must immediately stop flying.
     
  10. MBDiagMan

    MBDiagMan Pattern Altitude

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    WOW! What a situation!

    I'm certainly no lawyer, but since the FAA DESIGNATED him as a legitimate examiner, don't they have some responsibility in the issue?

    It would seem fair, if they did all the retests with FAA examiners at no cost. Of course, even with no examiner fee, for many people this would represent a large sum of money. I'm not sure, but I expect that most people don't have their own plane, so that means renting a plane for the exam and maybe even renting it to prepare for the exam.

    With the tough old curmudgeon of a DPE I had, I can't imagine ever having to be faced with this situation. If I did, I think I could practice a few things and then do good in the air, but it would probably take some study to get ready for the oral again.

    Bad situation!
     
  11. Tom-D

    Tom-D Ejection Handle Pulled

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    The way to get the FAAs attention would be to over load the system, the DPE would be operating in one FSDO, all the pilots effected should make appointments with that FSDO's examiners. when the appointment list get too long fire off letters of hardships, and undue delays. yada yada :)
     
  12. Steve Foley

    Steve Foley Pattern Altitude

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    Do you think the bureaucrats in the FAA would care?
     
  13. X3 Skier

    X3 Skier Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Wonder why they will not accept a BFR as the equivalent? Seems it should be OK but reading the letter it is pretty specific about a retest and they make the rules.

    Cheers
     
  14. pete480

    pete480 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Oh, it would absolutely suck to get a letter like that!
     
  15. MAKG1

    MAKG1 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Is this, by any chance, another example of pencil-whipped practical exams? It seems this has happened before.
     
  16. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The notice says "If it is subsequently determined that an airman has been tested for an additional pilot certificate or rating with satisfactory results after the last test administered by DPE Lane, the reexamination letter will be rescinded. The letter will also be rescinded in the case of a current military pilot in command (PIC) submitting evidence of satisfactory completion of a military proficiency check subsequent to the test conducted by DPE Lane."
     
  17. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Does the FAA ever charge for 44709 rides? I would doubt it. As for the other costs, if the problem DPE has any assets, maybe one could take him to small claims court.
     
  18. John Baker

    John Baker Final Approach

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    I guess most of you are aware of all I went through to get my PPSL, I wrote enough about it. You are probably aware of all the time and money I spent, being pretty much screwed over from the get go from the first day I stepped into a "learn to fly here" FBO.

    Then on the annual my plane is going through now, a problem with the wing that is going to wipe out what little money I have left over a one inch long crack in one of the corrugated panels in my wing walk.

    Looking over all of this, when my only goal was to get a pilots certificate before I died, my bucket list as it were. I spent over a hundred thousand dollars including the $47,000.00 dollar airplane, that I put over $15,000.00 in repairs in the five years I've owned it, that now people think $27,000.00 is too much for me to ask for it, without ever seeing it or flying it.

    So this about sums up the final screwing GA has delivered to me, the "coup de grâce" as it were.

    Try to guess who my DPE was on 9-18-2010?????? Anyone????

    -John
     
  19. Mike_Flys

    Mike_Flys Pre-Flight

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    Wow this took off fast.
    He was a DPE until they pulled his DPE in November 2011.
    Nobodys ticket has been suspended yet or affected in any way yet. Even Eddie is still flying and a dam good CFI. (just no longer a DPE)

    The local scuttlebutt is he was investigated for having too many passes, and that the investigation determined that he was taking short cuts on his practical test.
    The number on the ramp is that over 500 pilots received letters.
    2 friends of mine did.
    one for his II and one for a twin.

    I have flown and been to several FAAST classes that Eddie has given. he is one of the most knowledgeable pilots and CFIs I have ever met.

    This is a serious matter and very upsetting for those of us involved. Please be courteous with your speculations and commits.

    Thanks,
    Mike
     
  20. BillTIZ

    BillTIZ En-Route

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    The FAA Examiners cannot charge for their services. They are paid by taxpayer dollars. But you'll have expenses to rent a plane and other preparations for the ride.
     
  21. LandSickness

    LandSickness Cleared for Takeoff

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    I feel bad for you, John, but believe me, the light at the end of the tunnel is not necessarily a train.

    As tough as it's been on you in this process, its important not to accept a sentence not yet given. I would think that people who have to worry are the ones who bought their checkrides. They will be either proven incompetent to fly, or, if they were/are committed, they should pass with no issue. There's probably grounds for some legal action by all affected for at the very least money spent with the gentleman in question. That's the FAA's fault, not yours.
     
  22. Mike_Flys

    Mike_Flys Pre-Flight

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    John,
    I'm sorry to hear about your GA experience.
    Do you mind if I ask how your check ride went? Do you think Eddie did a good job? Do you think he passed you and you didn't deserve it?

    PM me if you would rather

    Just curious
    Mike
     
  23. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Sad news John. It'd be tough to take the 709 ride when you know you've followed procedure to complete all steps for the PPC. Not your fault at all that a DPE's performance has been called into question and all certs questioned.

    I hope you find a way to take the ride.
     
  24. PPC1052

    PPC1052 En-Route

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    First off, I feel bad for him, too. But I wouldn't count on any legal action against the federal government. I haven't looked closely, but I suspect any such claim would be subject to governmental immunity.

    You might have a claim against the DPE, I don't know. But if so, you probably will be standing in line with your hand out with a lot of others. As they say, you can't squeeze blood from a stone.
     
  25. John Baker

    John Baker Final Approach

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    I was pretty much done with flying anyway. I know I will not go through the time and expense of another check ride. I'll be 70 December 9. It is just frustrating that after all that, nothing. 425+ hours and I'm not qualified to fly anything but kite on a string.

    -John
     
  26. LandSickness

    LandSickness Cleared for Takeoff

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    I'm not saying anyone's going to get a cash settlement or punitive damages as a result of this action. All I'm saying is, it shouldn't cost the "victims" anything to right a wrong. They can offer vouchers(or some other form of government mystery money) to the checkride takers to fix this and it shouldn't cost the pilots anything but time and a little anxiety.
     
  27. John Baker

    John Baker Final Approach

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    I thought Eddy did a pretty thorough job. Ground portion and air portion. He covered all of it, as far as I could tell. He definitely did not award me anything I had not earned. It was a whole afternoon, from about eleven in the morning until after five that evening.

    The only thing he did that surprised me, was after he signed me off, he told me I had given him the best check ride he had in years. He said I really knew my stuff and had prepared well for it.

    -John
     
  28. Mike_Flys

    Mike_Flys Pre-Flight

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    John,
    over 400 hours? did you get any other ratings? Dont you think you should at least contact the FSDO and see what they say?

    I have not been able to contact anyone at the FSDO yet.
    So far I have just left a message.
    I'm not 2 worried about my flying but definitely need to study up for the Oral.

    I wish I could take a check ride for a different rating instead of retaking one I have already done.

    Mike
     
  29. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    You're making the assumption that, in a situation where the FAA knows that there are potentially hundreds of pilots involved, it would have a team of inspectors (and maybe even Designees) from all across the country on call.

    These are practical tests being called into question. Not flight reviews. CFIs give flight reviews not practical tests.
     
  30. Mike_Flys

    Mike_Flys Pre-Flight

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    I feel the same way about my check ride.
    He gave me a good check thorough practical test and I earned my ticket.

    When I first got my letter I was very upset, and while I basically still am I'm not going to just give up flying. So if I have to check ride again to make the FAA happy I will.
    I just wish they (FSDO) would answer their phone.

    Maybe there will be some info tonight at the FAAST meeting at VGT

    Mike
     
  31. JoeSelch

    JoeSelch Pattern Altitude

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    Oh, geez John... I've followed your saga on this board the whole way and (amazingly, despite all of the other BS you've been through) this absolutely takes the cake. :banghead:
     
  32. Gubbins

    Gubbins Ejection Handle Pulled

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    This is very sad. Sad obviously for the people who worked hard for their tickets, and now need to go through the process again (with associated costs both financial and emotional). I also feel sorry for Edward Lane. I don't know him, but he certainly seems competent from his videos and from testimonials. Let's just hope that the FAA has a very good reason to make all the parties involved go through this ordeal.

    John, I am really sorry this happened to you. Even if you decide to not get reexamined, you should take pride in knowing that you did everything properly and that you fulfilled your dream and flew over 425 hours doing just that.
     
  33. \__[Ô]__/

    \__[Ô]__/ Pre-takeoff checklist

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    If so, that may be the smart thing to do for pilots considering a career in aviation, particularly the airlines. A guy applying to the airlines mentioned that his application asked if he'd ever been required to take a 709 ride. The implication being that the pilot did something wrong to earn the ride. Anyone who has to check 'yes' is at a disadvantage for hiring. Sure you can explain that in this case it wasn't your fault. But are you even going to get the chance? All things being equal, an employer's going to interview the guy without a past 709 ride.

    Even running out to do a sea plane rating or something might be worth the additional expense if it avoids that problem.
     
  34. wabower

    wabower Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I am aware of another situation in which a DPE's ticket was revoked. His pass/fail ratio was well within norms, but he was accused of passing an applicant without administering the flight portion of the exam. The evidence submitted by the Fed included an assertion that since the applicant's name did not appear on the rental sheet at the FBO, the applicant could not have been in the plane.

    The undisputed testimony by all concerned was that the applicant was not at the flight school when the he and the DPE agreed on the time for the checkride. To assure the plane would be available, the applicant contacted a friend and fellow student who was at the facility and asked him to make the reservation on the calendar. The other student simply wrote his own name in the time block, under the assumption that the name on the book was of absolutely no consequence and the FBO didn't care whose name was entered there so long as 1. the plane was properly used by a qualified and approved pilot, and
    2. the check cleared.

    I observed the DPE in many situations in which it would have been expedient to look the other way regarding check rides, and heard him tell the applicants "if we're going to do this, we're going to do it right."

    The DPE's stated goal was to win reinstatement of his ticket, clear his record and then tell them to shove it.
     
  35. John Baker

    John Baker Final Approach

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    Well, if nothing else, we're members of a very big club now. The Chinese will probably be taking over in the next few years anyway, I doubt if they will let the help fly airplanes.

    -John
     
  36. zaitcev

    zaitcev En-Route

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    You can fly a part 103 kite without a string. Not going to be a cross-country travelling powerhouse like your Cherokee, but in reality airlines finished that decades ago anyway.
     
  37. midlifeflyer

    midlifeflyer Final Approach

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    Don't rule out the possibility that you might be able to.

    I don't think anyone has said it yet: Get an aviation attorney. If you are an AOPA/LSP member, take advantage of it. If you are not, see if you can get a referral. If you are an AOPA member but not signed up for the LSP, the list of LSP attorneys is still available. I would be very surprised if the small group of Plan attorneys in Vegas are not receiving multiple calls as well as Plan attorneys in neighboring states.

    It's not that the FAA is going to be frightened. That's not what legal representation is for. It's to provide advice and negotiate as your objective representative in a system that he or she understands.
     
  38. myst3r physt3r

    myst3r physt3r Filing Flight Plan

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    I know a DPE who went through a very similar situation and got his ticket revoked. An MEI friend of mine was 10/10 on his multi-engine signoffs had to redo his MEI ride with an FAA Inspector. All told, it was a non-event. He called the FSDO, made the appointment and took the checkride. Obviously, he was already proficient, so he was only out the money for aircraft rental.

    I heard the Vegas FSDO is one of the more lenient ones, so hopefully no one gets Inspector Ball Buster when they take their ride.
     
  39. n20junkie

    n20junkie Pre-takeoff checklist

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    We're from the FAA.........we're here to help.........

    Well in this case, people did the right thing and now they got screwed.
     
  40. Clark1961

    Clark1961 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Understatement in John's case in particular...