Airspace question

brcase

brcase

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Brian
Ran into an interesting scenario this week.
I think I have figured it out but want to see what kind of answers others come up with, since I am not sure of my answer. I do know how to figure it out but more fun to ask here and others may learn something also.

I needed to depart east bound out of my home airport KMAN. The AWOS is reporting 1 3/4 and Clear. From the Web Cam on the Ski hill it is Clear and at least 30 miles visibility at 7000 feet. from the general weather patterns I know that visibility increases to over 5 miles some where between 1500 and 2000 feet.

Here is the question. How can I legally transition from Class G airspace to my cruising altitude of 7500 feet and insure I stay legal VFR? I am instrument rated but not legally current. Of course the problem is that once I go above 700 feet I enter Class E airspace and need 3 miles visibility.

I see two possible answers, what do you come up with?
What would be the quickest way to get to altitude?

Brian
 
Can you do special VFR in Class E (non-surface)? That would get it down to 1 mile visibliity. Maybe scud run into the Boise Class C surface area, with a special VFR clearance. There are a lot of charted obstructions there. And flying over the city below 700 AGL violates minimum safe altitude (1000 over obstructions in a "congested area").

The "obvious" legal way (leaving whether it's smart or not aside) is to scud run west or southwest to a region of much higher Class G. There is terrain there, so I wouldn't touch that with a 1200 foot pole.

If you treat being dead as infinite time, the fastest way to altitude may be to wait for better weather.
 
Last edited:
MAKG1 said:
Can you do special VFR in Class E (non-surface)?
Click to expand...
Check the Special VFR reg:

==============================
...within the airspace contained by the upward extension of the lateral boundaries of the controlled airspace designated to the surface for an airport.
==============================

Outside the surface area? No Special VFR.
 
brcase said:
Ran into an interesting scenario this week.
I think I have figured it out but want to see what kind of answers others come up with, since I am not sure of my answer. I do know how to figure it out but more fun to ask here and others may learn something also.

I needed to depart east bound out of my home airport KMAN. The AWOS is reporting 1 3/4 and Clear. From the Web Cam on the Ski hill it is Clear and at least 30 miles visibility at 7000 feet. from the general weather patterns I know that visibility increases to over 5 miles some where between 1500 and 2000 feet.

Here is the question. How can I legally transition from Class G airspace to my cruising altitude of 7500 feet and insure I stay legal VFR? I am instrument rated but not legally current. Of course the problem is that once I go above 700 feet I enter Class E airspace and need 3 miles visibility.

I see two possible answers, what do you come up with?
What would be the quickest way to get to altitude?
Click to expand...

You can head east and stay within 700' of the surface while requesting a SVFR clearance to enter the Boise Class C surface area to climb to VFR conditions.

You can head southwest and stay within 700' of the surface until about 15 miles from the field where you can climb another 500', continue southwest until about 25 miles from the field where you have Class G airspace up to 14,500 MSL.
 
Read the reg:

§ 91.155 Basic VFR weather minimums.
(a) Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section and § 91.157, no person may operate an aircraft under VFR when the flight visibility is less...
 
You can't do it unless the vis gets above 3 miles before you enter controlled airspace. Unless you have reasonable assurance that the vis gets to 3 before you get to 700 AGL, you're stuck for the time being without an IFR clearance. One supposes you can try that SVFR stunt if you like, but there are a lot of risks inherent in that move, starting with what you do if Boise says, "Unable SVFR at this time."
 
I would just stay on the ground with 1 3/4 visibilty and enjoy a day of shopping with my family.
 
Ok thanks for the discussion it went similar to what I expected.

I should have known better and actually read the FAR. Thanks to those who posted it.
The answer I was unsure of, was where the lateral boundaries of where one could use a special VFR were. The answer shoots down a couple of my possibilities.

I was hoping one could request a Special VFR climb over the KMAN airport. Obviously won't work.
The other plan was 500 feet following the railroad tracks into Boise Airspace and then requesting a Special VFR climb. Could call the tower before departing to make sure it would work. This won't work either, because I would never get into Class C to surface. But it could possibly work following the Freeway into the Boise inner airspace. Basically fly into Boise and then Depart under a Special VFR. I really don't like that idea, it takes me over to much population.

So the two methods that would work is to just follow the Railroad tracks to legal VFR conditions and then climb. This is probably the best answer from a legal and safety stand point, and stay VFR.

The head south or southwest and follow the Class G airspace up is a poor idea as it requires navigating in limited visibility near high terrain.

This is an obvious example of trying to stay legal actually makes it more dangerous.

Best idea just get current and depart IFR.
 
brcase said:
The head south or southwest and follow the Class G airspace up is a poor idea as it requires navigating in limited visibility near high terrain.
Click to expand...

You didn't ask for good ideas, the question was, "How can I legally transition from Class G airspace to my cruising altitude of 7500 feet and insure I stay legal VFR?"
 
If your mission is important enough that you must fly...get IFR current...otherwise wait it out.
 
MachFly said:
Depending on the how fast weather changes you may not have time to get legally current.
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(Safety and proficiency aside) the key is not to "get" legally current but to "stay" legally current.

While in Colorado, I had a tendency to let my instrument currency lapse since it wasn't used all that much. Then one day I had a flight home from an overnight cross country in less than ideal VFR conditions. Definitely VFR but what was a difficult VFR flight would have been a no-brainer IFR flight. I vowed then to always maintain technical legal currency*)

(*a vow I recently broke but with a purpose; the proverbial exception that proves the rule)
 
midlifeflyer said:
(Safety and proficiency aside) the key is not to "get" legally current but to "stay" legally current.

While in Colorado, I had a tendency to let my instrument currency lapse since it wasn't used all that much. Then one day I had a flight home from an overnight cross country in less than ideal VFR conditions. Definitely VFR but what was a difficult VFR flight would have been a no-brainer IFR flight. I vowed then to always maintain technical legal currency*)

(*a vow I recently broke but with a purpose; the proverbial exception that proves the rule)
Click to expand...

I agree, but as you said sometimes you just end up not flying IFR for a while. I personally try yo stay proficient in everything I learned before (regarding flying, with exception to different types of aircraft), but sometimes it's just out of your hands.
 
Muttley said:
Once again, I feel this is a big hint to stay on the ground. If a pilot is not flying enough to stay legally IFR current then it's not a stretch to think that same pilot may not be proficient enough to operate in limited visibility while close to the ground in in unstable weather.
Click to expand...

wickedsprint said:
If your mission is important enough that you must fly...get IFR current...otherwise wait it out.
Click to expand...

The mission can be that important that you will really not want to cancel the flights and it might come up on a short notice giving you limited time to prepare.
Personally I try to avoid such situation.
 
MachFly said:
I agree, but as you said sometimes you just end up not flying IFR for a while. I personally try yo stay proficient in everything I learned before (regarding flying, with exception to different types of aircraft), but sometimes it's just out of your hands.
Click to expand...
I'm not sure I said anything was out of my hands. The lapse some years ago was me getting lazy about my currency schedule. The one now is intentional - I'm checking out at a new club after an out-of-state move and knew in advance the process would also bring me up to legal currency and be a help in the proficiency area as well..

In both cases my currency was very much under my control.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I'm not sure I said anything was out of my hands. The lapse some years ago was me getting lazy about my currency schedule. The one now is intentional - I'm checking out at a new club after an out-of-state move and knew in advance the process would also bring me up to legal currency and be a help in the proficiency area as well..

In both cases my currency was very much under my control.
Click to expand...

Oh I'm not saying you specifically don't have control of it. I mean some people might not fly as much as they like due to a money shortage or aircraft being in maintenance, while you're waiting you obviously loose your proficiency.
 
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