Airspace Question

[Chris Connor]

You will need to have a Baltimore/Washington TAC to possibly answer this. Looking at the TAC near the 200 Radial of the Hagerstown VOR there is a magenta ellipse. I know that typically the thick magenta line means Class E to 700 AGL, but in this case I am confused. If you follow the Class E (to 700) airspace boundary (not the ellipse but the major boundary) around it is a continous boundary. Is this ellipse an exclusion and the small area inside class G? There is also one a little north of Quantico. Thanks in advance I am interested to hear an answer or at least a theory.
Chris

 

[Areeda]

Interesting question.

I think this is what you're talking about:

The way I read it it means Class E inside that little weird shaped area starts at 700. I have no idea why.

Joe

 

[flyingcheesehead]

Interesting question.

I think this is what you're talking about:

The way I read it it means Class E inside that little weird shaped area starts at 700. I have no idea why.

Joe

Look closely - The sharp edge is on the *inside* of the area depicted - So the class E inside that area starts at 1200, and *outside* that area in that vicinity starts at 700. If you look at a slightly larger view of the area, you'll see that there's a lot of 700-foot class E. Now why they didn't just leave this little sliver down at 700 feet too, I don't know.

 

[Areeda]

Look closely - The sharp edge is on the *inside* of the area depicted - So the class E inside that area starts at 1200, and *outside* that area in that vicinity starts at 700. If you look at a slightly larger view of the area, you'll see that there's a lot of 700-foot class E. Now why they didn't just leave this little sliver down at 700 feet too, I don't know.

You're correct. Time to get my glasses checked.

Neither way makes much sense let alone difference to me.

Joe

 

[silver-eagle]

The class E at HGR bisected the original class G. All they did put the overlay in. They probably thought since there was a good reason for class G there, why change it. The bureaucratic BS one has to go through probably makes it easier to leave it alone.

 

[JeffDG]

It almost looks like there was an old "E700" area that was contiguous from the 330 radial up above, and someone slapped an "ESurface" area down in the middle of it, leaving that little remnant at the 200 radial.

 

[John Baker]

I don't know if this is the case, but usually, if there is some off the wall item on a chart, there is an explanation for it somewhere on the chart.

To me it looks like an effort to define the IFR approach to class D Haggerstown Regional airport.

John

 

[Chris Connor]

I'm leaning with ~John on this one. If it was Class E starting at 1200 feet wouldn't it be a blue gradient line?
If you look at the whole area there is a complete contained area of Class E or stricter air space. There is a second one near Quantico. And there is no odd air space around it. I think it's left over G space.
Chris

 

[azure]

The blue gradient line separates Class E from 1200 up from Class E starting at 14,500, i.e. G-space. Because it's magenta instead of blue, I don't think that little sliver is G-space. As others have said, it's E from 1200 surrounded by E from 700.

It's rare to find the blue gradient line anywhere near populous areas. In Michigan you only find it in the UP. All of lower MI is E from 1200, except those areas where the Class E starts lower.

 

[roncachamp]

You will need to have a Baltimore/Washington TAC to possibly answer this. Looking at the TAC near the 200 Radial of the Hagerstown VOR there is a magenta ellipse. I know that typically the thick magenta line means Class E to 700 AGL, but in this case I am confused. If you follow the Class E (to 700) airspace boundary (not the ellipse but the major boundary) around it is a continous boundary. Is this ellipse an exclusion and the small area inside class G? There is also one a little north of Quantico. Thanks in advance I am interested to hear an answer or at least a theory.
Chris

The small area inside has a Class E floor of 1200' AGL. The area outside has a Class E floor of 700' AGL. The small area inside is what is left over after the two Class E5 areas below are established:

AEA DC E5 Washington, DC
That airspace extending upward from 700 feet above the surface within an area bounded by a line beginning at lat. 38°55’19” N., long. 76°12’28”W., to lat. 38°27’18”N., long. 77°03’51”W., to lat. 38°36’30”N., long. 77°15’17”W., to lat. 38°35’12”N., long. 77°37’06”W., to lat. 38°57’17”N., long. 78°02’29”W., to lat. 39°30’00”N., long. 78°09’00”W., to lat. 39°44’36”N., long. 77°36’08”W., to lat. 39°43’28”N., long. 77°00’00”W., to lat. 39°36’08”N., long. 76°28’38”W., to lat. 39°19’38”N., long. 76°04’04”W., to the point of beginning excluding the airspace that coincides with the Aberdeen, MD, Hagerstown, MD, Winchester, VA, Midland, VA Class E airspace areas and P-56A, P-56B, P-73, P-40, R-4009, R-4001A, R-4001B, R-6608A, R-6608B and R-6608C when they are in effect.​

AEA MD E5 Hagerstown, MD
Washington County Regional Airport,
Hagerstown, MD
(lat. 39°42'28"N., long. 77°43'46"W.)
Hagerstown VOR
(lat. 39°41'52"N., long. 77°51'21"W.)
St. Thomas VORTAC
(lat. 39°56'00"N., long. 77°57'03"W.)
Washington County Regional Airport ILS
Runway 27 Localizer
(lat. 39°42'22"N., long. 77°44'41"W.)​

That airspace extending upward from 700 feet above the surface within a 6.6-mile radius of the Washington County Regional Airport and within 3.1 miles each side of the Hagerstown VOR 237° radial and 057° radial extending from 9.6 miles southwest of the VOR to 2.7 miles northeast of the VOR and within 4.4 miles each side of the Washington County Regional Airport ILS Runway 27 localizer course extending from the localizer to 12.6 miles east of the localizer and within 4.4 miles each side of the St. Thomas VORTAC 141° radial extending from the 6.6-mile radius to the St. Thomas VORTAC, excluding that portion within Prohibited Area P-40.​

 

[Chris Connor]

Steven,
Not arguing (because obviously I don't know) but what indicates to you that it is 1200 feet. The description that you provided seems to indicate an area of Class E above 700. Again I'm just trying to figure it out.
Chris

 

[skidoo]

Steven,
Not arguing (because obviously I don't know) but what indicates to you that it is 1200 feet. The description that you provided seems to indicate an area of Class E above 700. Again I'm just trying to figure it out.
Chris

The class E floor within that sliver is the same as the class E floor that applies to the 1760ft mountain peak near the ski area just North on that map. Looks to be 1200 AGL to me.

 

[Chris Connor]

Ok I get it now. Big brain cramp. Most class E starts at 1200 ft. AGL, just not around here, so if it is not charted otherwise that's what you have. So I get it. Thanks to all of you for helping me work through my brain cramp.
Chris

 

[roncachamp]

Steven,
Not arguing (because obviously I don't know) but what indicates to you that it is 1200 feet. The description that you provided seems to indicate an area of Class E above 700. Again I'm just trying to figure it out.

Yes, the descriptions I provided are for Class E areas with a floor of 700' AGL. The small splinter of airspace in question is outside of those two areas. Note the chart legend states; "Class E Airspace exists at 1200' AGL unless otherwise designated as shown above." So the area in question is essentially a 500' tall "wall" of Class G airspace that extends up into the surrounding area af Class E airspace that has a floor of 500' AGL.

 

[Chris Connor]

Yep, like I said brain cramp. But even HGR Tower doesn't know why it is charted that way. Thanks for all y'alls help.
Chris