Airport Question: Street Outlaws

I don't have a problem with closing an airport for a short period. Do it right with a notam and lighted X's.

I've seen it done without a notam or X's. Just found an electrician's truck parked on the runway next to a landing light...
 
I don't have a problem with closing an airport for a short period. Do it right with a notam and lighted X's.

I've seen it done without a notam or X's. Just found an electrician's truck parked on the runway next to a landing light...

Roger. Thank you.
 
We used to have autocross events at TUP. I'd have a no burnout policy at the least.
 
Haha! You may be right about the FATI program. Truly, it's pretty sad how little use our airport gets. We do have a city manager now that would like to improve it greatly, if we can get the council and the people behind the effort, but it's tough when you have a total of 4 pilots in town. We would like to be able to get some of those federal funds down the road, but we're going to have to do some things on our own dime to become eligible. It is lighted, btw.

Medevac does operate at night, but they use the helipad at the hospital, a couple miles away.

A Municipal airport with only 4 pilots in town and what looks like no commercial use. Where's the money coming from? Does the City spend more maintaining it than they get in revenue from it?
 
You obviously don't have a clue what would be going on. These are high tech cars making test passes, techs pouring over data, and tuning with laptops, with their millionaire owners in their escalades overseeing their investment, or even in the car themselves. This ain't a bunch of drunken idiots throwing beer cans all over the airport. Despite what you may think, the level of sophistication is much higher than you credit them with.

Although I'm not closely involved with racing, I happen to know 4 racers personally. All are well respected businessmen, and passionate racers in their spare time. 3 out of the 4 are pilots. One flies a Cirrus, one flies the 1963 C-182 in the hangar next to mine, the other buys, fixes, and sells airplanes for fun, and flies a King Air. So don't sit there and pretend that these guys don't give a crap about GA, because some of them are very active participants in GA themselves, and care just as much about it as you and I. Sure there can be some morons involved, but morons walk among us everyday. In this case, it's a test session, not an event, and only the people with the airport gate code can get in. The public would be welcome to watch from the parking area if they want.

I apologize for the rant. Carry on.

But that ain't who goes to watch those races.

And that level of drag car is very loud and putting lots of power into the runway, and no matter how fast it goes, it's not a airplane.

Again, easier to close off some piece of street, where cars belong.
 
It's not easier to close a public road. You gotta have a public road no one wants to use, first. That can tolerate race car speeds. That's a big deal. A pothole can kill.

Tesla tested their Model S here, for that reason. Now, we're a towered airport, so tower participates in deconfliction. But closing a local highway for their trials was thoroughly out of the question.
 
A Municipal airport with only 4 pilots in town and what looks like no commercial use. Where's the money coming from? Does the City spend more maintaining it than they get in revenue from it?

Well, airport expenditures are usually less than $15,000 per year, so not a big deal that it runs a deficit. There's not much to maintain. Mowing is generally the biggest expense, except on years the we put a seal coat on the asphalt and repaint the lines.


Anyway, that ship has sailed. A decisions reached by the time the racers needed to use the runway. Thanks for the input.
 
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Would there be any liability for the city if one of the drivers lost control and was injured or killed in the wreck?

Racing clubs carry insurance. It would be up to the airport to insist on documentation of insurance coverage and a contract that obliges the lessee to pay for any repairs.

If I ran the airport 'race day' would be a weekly evening event and the airport would have a balanced budget. The EMS issue is a canard. Fixed wing EMS planes don't just fall out of the sky. There is a 30min lead time and the NOTAM can spell out how to contact the race director.
 
I just wanted to mention something real quick, coming from the perspective of a someone who previously did airport compliance enforcement work at FAA HQ. Every year we spend three billion dollars in aviation tax revenue (fuel, passenger taxes, etc.) to fund AIP projects across the country. 3,300 airports are eligible for this money. Most of the money goes to airports that are primarily serve GA (the vast majority of commercial service airports only handle a relatively small number of commercial flights). We (the FAA and the GA community) tout our strong network of airports across the country as vitral infrastructure, and the loss of any single airport node weakens the entire network. We spends thousands of dollars on keeping pavement serviceable, enhancing infrastructure, and improving safety and capacity. We liken our airport network to the national highway network...you wouldn't indiscriminately close down a section of interstate through your community, would you?

Point being, we have told the American people that our airport infrastructure is a vital cog in the national transportation system and local economy. With that in mind, doesn't it make sense that we should be VERY selective in allowing that infrastructure to be used for non-aeronautical purposes?
So why isn't Daley doing a long stretch in Leavenworth?
 
Racing clubs carry insurance. It would be up to the airport to insist on documentation of insurance coverage and a contract that obliges the lessee to pay for any repairs.

If I ran the airport 'race day' would be a weekly evening event and the airport would have a balanced budget. The EMS issue is a canard. Fixed wing EMS planes don't just fall out of the sky. There is a 30min lead time and the NOTAM can spell out how to contact the race director.

Depends, normally 30min is enough, but not always, you'd also have to make sure they actually put a legible NOTAM in and have a contact number WHICH WORKS and can clear the runway of cars, people, junk, etc, in short order
 
The same reason Hillary isn't. The politicians look after each other. If you or I do the same things, we visit the Big House.


Time warner / hrc, your new overlords
 
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For what?
Really?

Meigs_closed_3-31-03_aerial_Tribune_David_Klobucar.jpg
 
Well... many actually... but specific to the picture of Meigs field.

The required demolition notice was not given to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) or the owners of airplanes tied down at the field, and as a result sixteen planes were left stranded at an airport with no operating runway, and an inbound flight had to be diverted by Air Traffic Control, because of equipment scattered on the runway. The stranded aircraft were later allowed to depart from Meigs' 3,000-foot (910 m) taxiway.[13]

"To do this any other way would have been needlessly contentious," Daley explained at a news conference Monday morning, March 31.[14] Mayor Daley defended his actions, described as "appalling" by general aviation interest groups, by claiming it would save the City of Chicago the effort of further court battles before the airport could close. He claimed that safety concerns required the closure, due to the post-September 11 risk of terrorist-controlled aircraft attacking the downtown waterfront near Meigs Field.[15]

"The issue is Daley's increasingly authoritarian style that brooks no disagreements, legal challenges, negotiations, compromise or any of that messy give-and-take normally associated with democratic government," the Chicago Tribune editorialized.[16][17] "The signature act of Richard Daley's 22 years in office was the midnight bulldozing of Meigs Field," according to Chicago Tribune columnist Eric Zorn.[18] "He ruined Meigs because he wanted to, because he could," columnist John Kass wrote of Daley in the Chicago Tribune.[19]
 
Well... many actually... but specific to the picture of Meigs field.

The required demolition notice was not given to the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) or the owners of airplanes tied down at the field, and as a result sixteen planes were left stranded at an airport with no operating runway, and an inbound flight had to be diverted by Air Traffic Control, because of equipment scattered on the runway. The stranded aircraft were later allowed to depart from Meigs' 3,000-foot (910 m) taxiway.[13]

"To do this any other way would have been needlessly contentious," Daley explained at a news conference Monday morning, March 31.[14] Mayor Daley defended his actions, described as "appalling" by general aviation interest groups, by claiming it would save the City of Chicago the effort of further court battles before the airport could close. He claimed that safety concerns required the closure, due to the post-September 11 risk of terrorist-controlled aircraft attacking the downtown waterfront near Meigs Field.[15]

"The issue is Daley's increasingly authoritarian style that brooks no disagreements, legal challenges, negotiations, compromise or any of that messy give-and-take normally associated with democratic government," the Chicago Tribune editorialized.[16][17] "The signature act of Richard Daley's 22 years in office was the midnight bulldozing of Meigs Field," according to Chicago Tribune columnist Eric Zorn.[18] "He ruined Meigs because he wanted to, because he could," columnist John Kass wrote of Daley in the Chicago Tribune.[19]
Not defending Daley, but not notifying the FAA is a criminal offense subject to imprisonment in a federal penitentiary?
 
Not defending Daley, but not notifying the FAA is a criminal offense subject to imprisonment in a federal penitentiary?

Ok, let's say you don't like a airport, instead of trying to close it legally, go rent a dozen and just start trashing the runways, when the cops show up say you were trying to save everyone the hassle of going through the right channels to get the airport closed.

Think ya are going to end up in jail???

Of course.
 
Ok, let's say you don't like a airport, instead of trying to close it legally, go rent a dozen and just start trashing the runways, when the cops show up say you were trying to save everyone the hassle of going through the right channels to get the airport closed.

Think ya are going to end up in jail???

Of course.
But it's the city's airport and Daley is the mayor. If he violated a city ordinance by not following the proper channels then there's a procedure on a state or local level to deal with that.

As much as we all hate it, there was no federal crime here (other than failing to notify). Nothing to prosecute, nothing to send him to Leavenworth. Destructing city property is not a federal crime.

If you don't want to give a guy like that that much power, don't vote him into office. The citizens of Chicago felt differently.
 
I used to work for the Old Dominion Speedway. They'd close down the New London airport once a month for drag races. Never saw any problem other than the day i caused them some consternation by making a pass over the runway. My boss was smiling up and waving at me as he knew it was me. His brother was having a fit thinking I was going to try to land.

One time we landed there during the week and the State Police asked if we'd be off soon as they were going to set up cones on the runway and practice driving fast.

They used to close Burke Lakefront in Cleveland every year for the indy car race.
 
Failure to notify the FAA can be worse than the action taken in many cases. (Something about reporting any substance related motoring comes to mind here)

Anyway. it's also clear that there was misuse of federal funds in Daley's case. Never saw it, but were the 16 based aircraft and the airport based businesses defrauded when the rent was accepted and then the bulldozers showed up?

Here's some more on the Meigs events. Granted, the author is biased in favor of GA.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...-explain-away-faa-fines-for-meigs-destruction
 
But it's the city's airport and Daley is the mayor. If he violated a city ordinance by not following the proper channels then there's a procedure on a state or local level to deal with that.

As much as we all hate it, there was no federal crime here (other than failing to notify). Nothing to prosecute, nothing to send him to Leavenworth. Destructing city property is not a federal crime.

If you don't want to give a guy like that that much power, don't vote him into office. The citizens of Chicago felt differently.

EXACTLY, he's the mayor, not the emperor, the laws apply to him just the same. And it's not just the city's airport, not if they took fed funding for it, again he's not the king of the land.

So if someone was accused of committing a crime in "his city", the trail was lengthy, could the "I think I'm king" mayor just storm into the court and put a bullet in the guys head? Saving legal expenses and all right? Just not the right channels? Dramatic I know, but it's the same thing, you are JUST a mayor and need to follow the laws like everyone else.
 
I'm just going to leave this here for discussion.

Yes, they actually held sanctioned car races at Iowa City Municipal Airport in the 1950s, when that airport was served by the airlines half a dozen times each day.

f1e43a0a1cb207359c910dc5c50ad8a7.jpg
 
But it's the city's airport and Daley is the mayor. If he violated a city ordinance by not following the proper channels then there's a procedure on a state or local level to deal with that.

As much as we all hate it, there was no federal crime here (other than failing to notify). Nothing to prosecute, nothing to send him to Leavenworth. Destructing city property is not a federal crime.

If you don't want to give a guy like that that much power, don't vote him into office. The citizens of Chicago felt differently.
How about interfering with interstate commerce? Interfering with operation of aircraft?
 
What I just picked up from re-reading from your first post was that they only wanted to use it to practice, but not to actually film for the show. If that's the case, I wouldn't even bother with it if there was no actual production happening. I would imagine that the production company would be in touch with you as opposed to just one of the racers, if that was the case.

I'm thinking they should practice where they are filming production, and pay the freight there for road closures or site rental. Not a big fan of non-aeronautical use of airports.. It can start a slippery slope that eventually displaces its primary purpose.
 
Not a big fan of non-aeronautical use of airports.. It can start a slippery slope that eventually displaces its primary purpose.

Any examples of such a gradual slide? All I can see is muncipalities just closing airports that are not federally obligated because they operate with a persistent loss.
 
EXACTLY, he's the mayor, not the emperor, the laws apply to him just the same. And it's not just the city's airport, not if they took fed funding for it, again he's not the king of the land.

So if someone was accused of committing a crime in "his city", the trail was lengthy, could the "I think I'm king" mayor just storm into the court and put a bullet in the guys head? Saving legal expenses and all right? Just not the right channels? Dramatic I know, but it's the same thing, you are JUST a mayor and need to follow the laws like everyone else.

You're also not allowed to make up crimes and punishments after they are "committed." That's expressly prohibited by the Constitution. Article I, Section 9.

So, you get to quote chapter and verse if you want him to go to prison. Where is the Federal prison time in the actual statute? Which Federal statute do you want to prosecute? Sounds to me like he broke an administrative law with far less consequence. Like, you don't go to the Federal pen for lying on your medical.
 
You're also not allowed to make up crimes and punishments after they are "committed." That's expressly prohibited by the Constitution. Article I, Section 9.

So, you get to quote chapter and verse if you want him to go to prison. Where is the Federal prison time in the actual statute? Which Federal statute do you want to prosecute? Sounds to me like he broke an administrative law with far less consequence. Like, you don't go to the Federal pen for lying on your medical.

Probably not a good example, as lying on your medical is considered perjury, and you can go to jail for it.

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media...nced-to-jail-for-lying-on-medical-application
 
Just make sure you notify the heavy handed security that work the airport. I watch Airplane Repo, so I know those security guards can be pretty damn protective of their turf.
 
Not only no, but HELL NO!

We tried it, and just paid $1000 to repair the damages. Plus, we had to purchase insurance and hire security.

Let them build their own!
 
You're also not allowed to make up crimes and punishments after they are "committed." That's expressly prohibited by the Constitution. Article I, Section 9.

So, you get to quote chapter and verse if you want him to go to prison. Where is the Federal prison time in the actual statute? Which Federal statute do you want to prosecute? Sounds to me like he broke an administrative law with far less consequence. Like, you don't go to the Federal pen for lying on your medical.

Destruction of public property, conspiracy to destroy public property, disrupting intrastate commerce, hazard to air travel, operating vehicles where they shouldn't be, attempted manslughter, miss use of public resources, vandalism, I'm not a lawyer, but I'd wager a real grown up DA could make a two page list of charges, plead him down to a few years and heavy fines for reconstruction, set a example.
 
Certainly not all of them, but these two certainly are.

haha, I was being sarcastic. I can't name 2 reality shows that aren't tweaked for entertainment value. My daughter used to watch a lot of those cheesy shows when she was a teenager. :confused:
 
Destruction of public property, conspiracy to destroy public property, disrupting intrastate commerce, hazard to air travel, operating vehicles where they shouldn't be, attempted manslughter, miss use of public resources, vandalism, I'm not a lawyer, but I'd wager a real grown up DA could make a two page list of charges, plead him down to a few years and heavy fines for reconstruction, set a example.

None of those are Federal felonies. Try again. The Federal rules he broke are problematic, but you can't just make them into felonies because you feel like it. Rule of law and all that. And for administrative fines, it's the city of Chicago that would be at fault, not the mayor personally.

So, maybe you might be able to get him in state prison. Go complain to them.
 
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