Airplane Mode

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by AHAGLER86, Jan 28, 2019.

  1. AHAGLER86

    AHAGLER86 Filing Flight Plan

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2019
    Messages:
    1
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    AHAGLER86
    I am writing a potential news article and I need to interview some individuals for the article. I am writing about the hazards of not having your phone in airplane mode while flying and also if you see a technology being developed of airplane mode going obsolete in the future. Meaning will be able to use our cell phones in flight without having it in air plane mode. Any feed back would be treating appreciated. If you could email me at HAGLERA@my.erau.edu with responses and if it would be ok to quote you in the article.



    Thanks

    Amanda
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2019
  2. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    7,311
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    Your battery lasts longer in airplane mode because it’s not constantly trying to find signals. Personally, I find no other reason to bother doing it.
     
    dans2992, tawood, Tantalum and 2 others like this.
  3. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 En-Route

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2016
    Messages:
    2,735
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    midwestpa24
    Above 3,000-5,000 feet you probably won't have service anyway. Most cell networks are designed to transmit horizontally.
     
    flyingcheesehead likes this.
  4. Non Compos Mentis

    Non Compos Mentis Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Messages:
    295
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Non Compos Mentis
    A couple years ago, I called the FAA and asked what the problem was with cell phone use in airplanes.
    The response was basically: No problem on our side, but it messes up the cell providers equipment

    So I called my cell provider. The response: No problem on our side, but it messes up the FAA equipment
     
    texasclouds, bflynn, WannFly and 2 others like this.
  5. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    23,813
    Location:
    UQACY, WI
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    iMooniac
    Yeah, there's not much of a story here. The main hazard is that your phone's battery will die as it tries to hunt for towers (see the above posts). It's not going to bring the plane down. I never turn mine into airplane mode when I'm flying my own plane...
     
  6. DutchRoller

    DutchRoller Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2017
    Messages:
    395
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DutchRoller
    The real risk is that it causes sporadic flight controllability issues. For instance, if you don’t at least turn off cell service on your phone and then talk loudly on it while sitting next to me, my elbow might inexplicably take flight into your face.
     
  7. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2010
    Messages:
    12,652
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Ryan
    Sorry to be so blunt, but there’s no hazards that arise by NOT having your phone in airplane mode. Any ‘stats’ that you try to write are purely made up and fictional.
     
    dans2992 and wayneda40 like this.
  8. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    Messages:
    17,438
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bro do you even lift
    The only real difference I find is that Siri becomes Shirley in Airplane mode.
     
    wayneda40, Skyrys62, Bill and 6 others like this.
  9. frfly172

    frfly172 Touchdown! Greaser!

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2008
    Messages:
    14,630
    Location:
    mass fla
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ron keating
    Airplane mode saves your battery,for when you truly need your phone.
     
  10. Non Compos Mentis

    Non Compos Mentis Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 2012
    Messages:
    295
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Non Compos Mentis
    Really? Shirley you can't be serious!
     
    Huckster79 likes this.
  11. Huckster79

    Huckster79 Cleared for Takeoff PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2018
    Messages:
    1,438
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Huckster79
    Im thinking of naming my bird Shirley, for the reference above and it was my Grandmas name... sorry off topic...
     
  12. Tantalum

    Tantalum Final Approach

    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2017
    Messages:
    6,808
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    San_Diego_Pilot
    I usually put mine on airplane mode to save the battery, but think about it, do you really think on an airliner with 300 people on board they're all sitting there on airplane mode? I doubt there's any real risks or danger to this.. else we'd know about it

    A former poster here explained that above certain altitudes your phone pings too many towers and it messes up with the cell providers.. and then a very very long time ago it would have affected the aircraft radio equipment but that is no longer an issue

    So.. save battery life?
     
  13. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    18,863
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
  14. Sac Arrow

    Sac Arrow Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    May 11, 2010
    Messages:
    17,438
    Location:
    Oakland, CA
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bro do you even lift
    When I took my instrument checkride, the DPE plugged his cell phone in to a headset/intercom adapter and said "I use this in the air, and you will too."
     
  15. Craig

    Craig Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2015
    Messages:
    754
    Location:
    North Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Craig
    When the rules were written, the cell systems at the time did not have enough capability to selectively select and block a signal that was being received at multiple sites simultaneously. The system would bog down attempting to determine which site should be handling the call at that time. Also, the earlier systems ran in a lower frequency band and were significantly open to activating on a lower incoming signal strength.

    Since then, the system computing power has increased significantly, they’ve changed operating bands and the radio gear has better receiving specifications. Antenna installations have also changed, with much narrower directional capabilities and more depression on the installation angles. That helps reduce the “size” of the individual cell.
     
    Eric Stoltz likes this.
  16. Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe

    Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2008
    Messages:
    12,840
    Location:
    DXO124009
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Light and Sporty Guy
    For longer trips, on the rare occasion that I get to take one, I sign up for "updates" from 1800wxbrief - so putting the phone in airplane mode would mean that I would miss any significant updates (TFR, Weather), then I would crash and die. Well, perhaps not die. But you never know.

    For the more typical local ride, if I turn the phone to airplane mode,I would miss the call from the wife wondering why I'm not home yet. In that case, I would have been better off crashing and dying. Plus I would miss the text messages from Verizon telling me "Welcome to Canada..." when I'm freeking 3 or 4 miles from Canada but over areas of crappy reception. Conversations at the airport are kind of like this:

    As I walk around the ramp looking for a place with a solid signal.
    Which gets me back to the call from the wife.
    "I was only in the air for an hour!"
    "You left home three hours ago!!!"
    "Well, you know, preflight and stuff."
    "You mean your buddy Randy stopped by the hangar..."

    Oh, feel free to quote me on any of this.
     
    Tantalum likes this.
  17. cgrab

    cgrab Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    May 2, 2014
    Messages:
    2,147
    Location:
    Huntsville AL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    cgrab
    Yes, I'm serious and don't call me Shirley.

    Back to the OP's question...I never switch to airplane mode. On commercial flights I just turn it off. Twice on GA flights I've arrived at my destination to find my phone has gone haywire. It can't connect to any tower and I can't get things like maps or make a call. I've had to shut it down and of course, the battery is all used up. I now carry a battery booster so I can recharge it when this happens in the future.
     
  18. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    19,675
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    The "messes up the cell company equipment" is no longer accurate. That comes from the old analog AMPS days when indeed it was a problem. That hasn't been around for over a decade.

    My phone always seems to wake up on approach. I get missing notifications (texts, emails) bonging away when I come down.
    I never put my phone into airplane mode. PERIOD. I might turn off the cellular radio but even that is iffy.

    Amusingly, my hearing aids have airplane mode as well. I've never engaged that.
     
    Eric Stoltz likes this.
  19. Let'sgoflying!

    Let'sgoflying! Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2005
    Messages:
    18,264
    Location:
    west Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dave Taylor
    I have the latest iphone and discovered on my last flight that I can take over control of the airplane with it. It even gave me full control of the chemtrail console which was a cool bonus.
     
    bflynn, flyingcheesehead and wrbix like this.
  20. MadseasoN

    MadseasoN Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2010
    Messages:
    653
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    MadseasoN
    Some hazards of not having AirPlane mode is that Maw Maw's phone, with the loudest ring tone that the Lord ever created, won't ring during the entire freaking flight like it did in the terminal. She might miss an important call, you know. Or I might not get to hear a streaming Novela de Telemundo at full volume for 3 hours. That would be a disaster.
     
  21. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    7,642
    Location:
    Nebraska
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Cap'n Jack
    I'm going to give a contrary answer to the ones already given- I've some phones that did generate noise in the VHF radio. It was a good reminder to turn them off since I heard them on the ground, before I needed to hear any communications. I haven't had the problem with iPhones and Samsung phones. I also didn't know if it affected the comms more than a few feet from them.
     
    Palmpilot likes this.
  22. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    2,287
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tim
    The only hazard I have when flying is when I DO put my phone in airplane mode: if my girlfriend doesn't get a response to her texts she gets worried/****ed/etc. Technology on the ground keeps the phone from working above a certain height anyway...in the flatter areas I fly, I've found the phone won't work above 500 feet agl...areas with hills I can usually get it to work to about 2000 agl.
     
  23. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    7,311
    Location:
    FL
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Salty
    Try flying slower and steep turning around the tower.
     
    tawood likes this.
  24. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    12,361
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Velocity173
  25. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    18,109
    Location:
    PUDBY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Richard Palm
    I see that the last comments were filed in 2017. So far, I haven't found any indication of whether a decision has been made on the proposal, however when I checked the Code of Federal Regulations, the proposed regulations appear not to have been adopted as of Dec. 20, 2018.

    The Federal Register has details on the proposed regulations here (scroll down to page 2615 if necessary):

    https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-2014-01-15/xml/FR-2014-01-15.xml#seqnum2615

    Public comments can be found here:

    https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/filings?proceedings_name=13-301&sort=date_disseminated,DESC

    Replies to comments can be found here:

    https://www.fcc.gov/ecfs/search/filings?proceedings_name=13-301&sort=date_disseminated,DESC&submissiontype_description=REPLY TO COMMENTS

    I found Boeing's reply interesting:

    https://ecfsapi.fcc.gov/file/7521139645.pdf
     
  26. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    19,675
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    The real embarassing part about having my phone on was that I was following along on the taxi after landing in foreflight. Now I had been running an older version of foreflight in the plane because I was still using an older iPad that couldn't upgrade to the latest version. All of a sudden my phone announces loudly "ABOUT TO ENTER RUNWAY 17" and then "ENTERING RUNWAY 17". I didn't even know it did that.
     
    tawood likes this.
  27. Velocity173

    Velocity173 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2012
    Messages:
    12,361
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Velocity173
    I heard that the FCC was going to lift the ban a couple years ago but the airline stewardess’s union protested, so it was decided to keep it in place. As far as I know, 47 22.925 is still in effect and we’ve got a placard in our helicopter stating as such.
     
    Eric Stoltz likes this.
  28. tawood

    tawood Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Sep 22, 2015
    Messages:
    2,287
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Tim
    I recently switched from normally using my girlfriends phone, to my iPad, for playing music while flying...so now the iPad is plugged in with an audio cable, while also running foreflight....first time I get one of those announcements in the headset, I practically jump out of my seat. I was by myself and wasn't expecting to suddenly hear "entering runway 36" while taxiing for takeoff!
     
  29. Palmpilot

    Palmpilot Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2007
    Messages:
    18,109
    Location:
    PUDBY
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Richard Palm
    That's true as of December 20, 2018. (The .gov CFR site hasn't been updated since then.)

    §22.925 Prohibition on airborne operation of cellular telephones.

    Cellular telephones installed in or carried aboard airplanes, balloons or any other type of aircraft must not be operated while such aircraft are airborne (not touching the ground). When any aircraft leaves the ground, all cellular telephones on board that aircraft must be turned off. The following notice must be posted on or near each cellular telephone installed in any aircraft:

    “The use of cellular telephones while this aircraft is airborne is prohibited by FCC rules, and the violation of this rule could result in suspension of service and/or a fine. The use of cellular telephones while this aircraft is on the ground is subject to FAA regulations.”

    https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...fee7edd2&mc=true&node=se47.2.22_1925&rgn=div8
     
  30. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    19,675
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    Note that Part 22 doesn't apply to all cellular telephone services, only to those licensed under Part 22 (AMPS). Sprint originally was licensed under the PCS section (Part 24) Nextel under specialized mobile (Part 90). There's also Advanced Wireless (Part 27). Given the combinations and aggregations of things, it'd be hard to guess what FCC part actually applies to a given phone.
     
  31. Eric Stoltz

    Eric Stoltz Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2017
    Messages:
    707
    Location:
    PALH
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    ES
    Funny! Stewardess'ssss'ss'ss. This is true, the AFACWA Flight Attendant Union doesn't want a riot on their plane when Chatty McCathy won't GTF the phone during the pax brief or when normal people just want to sit in peace for a few hours. TWU also has similar concerns. My Wife is an Air Hostess, Stewardesssesses, or flight attendant. She and her peers would certainly enjoy no cell phone (talking) on a plane. Decorum people!

    As stated earlier in this thread, it was the cell phone companies lobbying the FCC, and the FCC not able to regulate their own regs. The biggest problem IIRC, was the olden days cell phones didn't have the tech to only latch on to one tower, therefore the cellphone company couldn't charge the user for minutes? How could they charge for multiple minutes for every minute? They couldn't get their money! Once again, big biz controlling the little guy.
     
  32. FlySince9

    FlySince9 En-Route

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,158
    Location:
    Huntersville, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jerry
    I agree with all above, but have you ever held your smart phone up near your Magnetic compass? Probably shouldn’t have been a surprise...but it did make me say “whoa!”:eek:
     
  33. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    19,675
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    Nonsense. The billing wasn't the issue. The issue is that the systems were designed for terrestrial traffic. The frequency reuse scheme (which is what differed cellular from the MTS and IMTS before it) was that you got spatial reuse by dividing the coverage area into cells. The transmit power of the radio was adaptive and could be commanded to a lower output when that would work, decreasing the number of towers hit and increasing the chances of reusing the frequency in cells across the system. It was just strate narrow band FM. The strongest signal captures the receiver.
    When you get a few thousand feet on the system (remember this was also back in the time when each was licensed for a metro area), you hit every tower pretty much equally with line of site. Even when the system commanded your unit down to the minimum output power, it still tied up cells across the system.
    The reg is obsolete for two reasons: one is that the systems are designed not to be sensitive upwards. Why waste power where you don't have customers? Second, the system now uses more sophisticated channel sharing (spread spectrum) rather than a simple power-adaptive FM signal.
     
  34. AggieMike88

    AggieMike88 Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jan 13, 2010
    Messages:
    18,863
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    The original "I don't know it all" of aviation.
    So what is she going to do?? Call the cops.... Wait a sec, you are the cops!
     
  35. Unit74

    Unit74 Final Approach

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2014
    Messages:
    6,632
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Unit74

    Lighten up Francis....o_O
     
  36. midwestpa24

    midwestpa24 En-Route

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2016
    Messages:
    2,735
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    midwestpa24
    I had a student do that during startup. I waited to see her eventual reaction and allow the learning moment to happen naturally.
     
    FlySince9 likes this.
  37. DutchRoller

    DutchRoller Ejection Handle Pulled

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2017
    Messages:
    395
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DutchRoller
    Using a phone during flight has always caused problems. The reason that the Wright brothers first flight was so short was the cord was too short and Orville was on the phone with his main squeeze saying “hey babe, you’ll never guess what I’m doing right n...”
     
  38. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2007
    Messages:
    19,675
    Location:
    Catawba, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    FlyingRon
    Ever hold your knife up next to the magnetic compass?
     
  39. FlySince9

    FlySince9 En-Route

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2011
    Messages:
    3,158
    Location:
    Huntersville, NC
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jerry
    Nope...
     
  40. texasclouds

    texasclouds Cleared for Takeoff

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2018
    Messages:
    1,338
    Location:
    Bryan, Texas
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Mark
    Try it with you glock!