Airplane engines vs farm tractor engines

Discussion in 'Maintenance Bay' started by Briar Rabbit, Feb 19, 2020.

  1. smv

    smv Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2019
    Messages:
    580
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    smv
    Yah, these would have probably been antique tractors. Not the air conditioned, GPS guided monsters bringing in the harvest these days. :)
     
  2. Jim K

    Jim K Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2019
    Messages:
    340
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Jim
    Fairly common up until the late 60's, but only when mounted on the steering column under the steering wheel. I have a '46 Ford 2N and a '66 Oliver 770 set up that way. If you have older guys that might explain it.
     
    smv likes this.
  3. Bell206

    Bell206 En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    2,550
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bell206
    We were talking about internal corrosion between "aircraft" engines and tractor engines and not failure modes. The table was posted to your question on failure modes of engines.

    I'll bet it does, except the table above, as noted, was for all aircraft categories even those that had engines without mags. Try to stay on point.;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2020
  4. flyingbrit

    flyingbrit Pre-takeoff checklist

    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2014
    Messages:
    233
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    flyingbrit
    IIRC my late FIL's Ford 8N was like that, with the throttle (or actually governor) mounted on the steering column. Model T was the same way. I've also driven more recent vehicles (1950 Chevrolet truck and 1970 Datsun roadster) which had hand throttles (in addition to the foot throttle) consisting of a knob on the dash. With both of these, pulling the knob out was more power, opposite to the typical aircraft.
     
    smv likes this.
  5. Dan Thomas

    Dan Thomas Final Approach

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    Messages:
    6,137
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Dan Thomas
    Yup. The Diamnond DA-42 with its Thielert dielsel engines and FADEC had an AD on that. https://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_...0478adab8625739900564f2c/$FILE/2007-23-14.pdf

    Low battery voltage and both engines quit. Not a homebuilt, either.

    This is just one example of the teething problems a manufacturer faces when developing new stuff. More complex stuff has more failure modes and more chances of mismanagement of the airplane. In this case, the AFM wasn't followed and they took off with a battery not fully charged. To make it more idiot-proof, extra backup batteries had to be installed.
     
  6. brcase

    brcase Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,695
    Location:
    Boise, Idaho
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brian
    The really old Case DC was push forward on the throttle lever for more throttle, But didn't have a foot throttle and the throttle lever was mounted on the top of the transmission housing.
    The Case 350 and David Brown 1210 had the throttle lever mounted under the steering wheel and was pull for more thottle, was were the two model T's we had.

    Brian
     
  7. brcase

    brcase Pattern Altitude

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2008
    Messages:
    1,695
    Location:
    Boise, Idaho
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Brian
    I think a marketing is as much or more of an issue than the FAA. We pilot are used to having lots of control (Mixture, Prop, carb heat) or at least familiar controls, and are pretty resistant to change for the same reasons the FAA is. We don't readily change until something is proven to be better and/or cheaper.
    As mentioned Mooney got the PFM engine certified. I recall Lycoming offered a FADEC control for a some of their engines for a short time. I think Lycoming screwed up the marketing by not offering to significantly extend the warranty of it's engines using Fadec. Maybe FADEC doesn't really help with engine life? But it was significantly more expensive and didn't convince pilot/owners it was worth the extra cost.

    Brian
     
    mwagg737 likes this.
  8. smv

    smv Line Up and Wait

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2019
    Messages:
    580
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    smv
    Gotta say I did not at all mind having full FADEC on the DA42. No Mixture, no Prop, no Synch, no wastegate management...

    Me: "Dude! Give me 65% power on both engines!!"
    42: Yessir!

    Almost made it feel like cheating while getting the MEL rating.
     
  9. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    51,971
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    So... a table full of useless information about what we aren’t talking about. Got it. LOL.
     
  10. Bell206

    Bell206 En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    2,550
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bell206
    Ha. The table was an FWIW post to your comment and question in Post 30 as shown below. Ask and ye shall receive. o_O

     
  11. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    51,971
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    The table insinuates that the failure modes most seen in certified engines from corrosion or whatever in those... are the “low” failures... but seems to only have been built from the data for a tiny fraction of the overall fleet.

    It would need to include the certified fleet to not be a total mess ... as applied to that.

    Unless I’m missing something else. o_O
     
  12. Bell206

    Bell206 En-Route

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2017
    Messages:
    2,550
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    Bell206
    The table data was culled from FAA and ATSB analysis reports over a 7 year period and covers all recip aircraft TC'd or not. It only shows a textual analysis of the results as I can't post the numerical data and was only meant as an example to your question on statistical data. If you want more, read the above linked ATSB report or search for FAA FMEA analysis reports which cover various recip engine classes to include the 4/6 cylinder variety found on TC'd aircraft.
     
  13. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    Messages:
    51,971
    Location:
    Denver, CO
    Display Name:

    Display name:
    DenverPilot
    Ok. It does seem to highlight that the experimental stuff fails a lot more than the non-experimental and in bad ways.

    Which makes sense.