Airlines at non-towered airports

SkyHog

SkyHog

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Everything Offends Me
I was thinking today about radio calls for some reason, and the question popped up in my head. If an airliner, carrying passengers were to land at a non-towered airport, what would his callsign be?

"Small Airport Traffic, American two two niner, right base, full stop, runway two two, small airport traffic."

or

"Small Airport Traffic, Seven Sixty Seven two two seven alpha lima, right base runway two two, full stop, small airport traffic.

Or - more precisely, would they use their flight number or their tail number and type?
 
Ya know Nick, I don't know of too many of the Big Guys that go into uncontroled airports. A lot of airline or other scheduled traffic is one reason to have a tower and classes of airspace. I do know of a lot of commuters that go into uncontroled and just use their normal call sign. Maybe some RJs, but can't think of anyplace.

A big reason is the need for spacing if shooting an instrument approach. If there is no tower, another aircraft cannont begin the approach until the one on the approach cancels. I've seen uncontroled airports get as few as four or five instrument approaches in in an hour because of this spacing requirement in a non-radar environment. In one case, a guy that shot the approach never cancelled.

OTOH, several of us were going to one place and orchistrated cancelling so the others came in.
But an airliner wouldn't want to be holding while a bugsmasher shot the approach at 90 knots, then didn't promptly cancel.

Best,

Dave
 
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Nick, I talked with my dad about this a few weeks ago. As you may know, he flies a Citation XLS:

He told me that if he were to use his callsign in the pattern, "Five Star 5-0-9 {or whatever the first 3 digits of the tail # are}) that a pilot in a C172 would be ":eek: whas dat?" Using the callsign doesn't transmit any data about your aircraft (and ultimately speed capability). He usually uses "Citation 5-0-3-C-S" in those times. He also mentioned at time in the carribean that he throws in "White and Gold Citation...." if there is any doubt by other pilots (also helps them find' ya)

...now the airlines are a differeent story. Most of them, I hear at night going into class D fields that have a tower, but are closed for the night, so it reverts to class E airspace. All I usually hear is, "Westchester Traffic, American blah blah...." I think they use their callsign and flight number at uncontrolled fields (which really doesn't serve any purpose, American 399 could be a F100 or a B777).
 
We used to go into New Haven, CT in the evenings after the tower would close. We would just use the airline/flight number, United Two Seven Three, or such. Anyone listening would know it was at least a 737.

On another note, you would be surprised at how few airline pilots know how to deal with a no tower situation. I was. Whenever we went to HVN, I was the one running the radios because I was the one that knew what I was doing.

On a third note, no airline pilot seems to know how to file a flight plan. We were in Washington Dulles one day when the company computers went down and they could not file the flight plans. Everyone was taking delays. I said to someone, why don't we file our own? I did just that. And we were on our way without too much fuss.

It is amazing how fast we lose touch with how things work when we don't have to do them for ourselves.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
We used to go into New Haven, CT in the evenings after the tower would close. We would just use the airline/flight number, United Two Seven Three, or such. Anyone listening would know it was at least a 737.

On another note, you would be surprised at how few airline pilots know how to deal with a no tower situation. I was. Whenever we went to HVN, I was the one running the radios because I was the one that knew what I was doing.

On a third note, no airline pilot seems to know how to file a flight plan. We were in Washington Dulles one day when the company computers went down and they could not file the flight plans. Everyone was taking delays. I said to someone, why don't we file our own? I did just that. And we were on our way without too much fuss.

It is amazing how fast we lose touch with how things work when we don't have to do them for ourselves.
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Wow...thats amazing. I'll bet United was very happy that you didn't take a delay and filed it yourself.

So then - y'all just use United (flt #) instead of the tail number? I suppose you're right, a C172 on downwind hears that and will know that its at least a big boy of some sort.
 
At HII we have beech 1900s that come in all the time, They anounce:
Havasu Traffic, Mesa air, beech 1900 20 to the south yada yada..
 
Greg don't you have some kind of requirement to have dispatch involved in filing?
 
Let'sgoflying! said:
Greg don't you have some kind of requirement to have dispatch involved in filing?
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We get a printed out flight plan with the "Filed" route printed out on it somewhere. That is what the dispatcher files. What I did was called Flight service and filed what the dispatcher was going to file anyway. That has been more than 10 years ago and the details are fuzzy now.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
We get a printed out flight plan with the "Filed" route printed out on it somewhere. That is what the dispatcher files. What I did was called Flight service and filed what the dispatcher was going to file anyway. That has been more than 10 years ago and the details are fuzzy now.
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That works as long as you know the dispatcher is having computer trouble and is just behind...Sometimes we (dispatchers) will drop your strip from the system if we need to talk to you about something after the release has been sent, but prior to you getting airborne. That is usally a sure way to get you to call......sorry, got a little off topic here.
 
State College, PA. I think there is some 737 service into there, could be mistaken. But plenty of RJ's and Turboprops

Dave Siciliano said:
Ya know Nick, I don't know of too many of the Big Guys that go into uncontroled airports. A lot of airline or other scheduled traffic is one reason to have a tower and classes of airspace. I do know of a lot of commuters that go into uncontroled and just use their normal call sign. Maybe some RJs, but can't think of anyplace.

A big reason is the need for spacing if shooting an instrument approach. If there is no tower, another aircraft cannont begin the approach until the one on the approach cancels. I've seen uncontroled airports get as few as four or five instrument approaches in in an hour because of this spacing requirement in a non-radar environment. In one case, a guy that shot the approach never cancelled.

OTOH, several of us were going to one place and orchistrated cancelling so the others came in.
But an airliner wouldn't want to be holding while a bugsmasher shot the approach at 90 knots, then didn't promptly cancel.

Best,

Dave
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I have seen an RJ come in to Key West after the tower was closed, and also Beech 1900's in to Altoona PA.
 
mgkdrgn said:
State College, PA. I think there is some 737 service into there, could be mistaken. But plenty of RJ's and Turboprops
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Most of the stuff that flys into KUNV (state college) are RJs the 737s or 727s that fly in are the planes from other universites. I think Michigan and Michigan State have 737s.

I know a guy from my synagogue that flies 727s and 767s for a cargo airline. He has flown the 727 into Ocala and uncontrolled field to pick up horses.
 
There are quite a few airports in the west which have airlines but no tower. Just in Colorado I can think of Hayden, Montrose, Gunnison, Telluride, Alamosa, and there are probably quite a few more. Two other very busy airports only got towers within the past few (5-10) years; Eagle, CO and Jackson, WY. As far as I have noticed, airlines just use their regular airline call signs.
 
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Everskyward said:
There are quite a few airports in the west which have airlines but no tower. Just in Colorado I can think of Hayden, Montrose, Gunnison, Telluride, Alamosa, and there are probably quite a few more. Two other very busy airports only got towers within the past few (5-10) years; Eagle, CO and Jackson, WY. As far as I have noticed, airlines just use their regular airline call signs.
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There's plenty around here as well, Eau Clair, Central Wisconsin to name a couple.
 
Back in the late 70's, early 80's when I used to monitor the tower frequency at KGCN the "commuter" and tour airlines all used their callsign. It's a question I've asked myself several times recently, though. We were approached a couple weeks ago and asked to consider adding an air-taxi service to our plan so we began wondering.
 
mgkdrgn said:
State College, PA. I think there is some 737 service into there, could be mistaken. But plenty of RJ's and Turboprops
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UNV is getting a tower, I was told, in 2006. They are that busy with Penn State up there.

Jim G
 
Had a Horizon Air Dash-8 holding short for me at PUW (no tower) last year while I was on short final in the Arrow. As I recall (I was a touch busy fighting squirrely cross winds) he was identifying with his flight number. No pressure on that landing. :D Wife in right seat and two ATPs judging the landing. No, no pressure on that one. :D
 
I encountered the US Air Beech 1900 shuttles from Pittsburgh landing at Franklin, PA (FKL). Like IFR arrivals are wont to do they announce 30 seconds before landing that "Beech 1900 is final for" the opposite runway that is being used and is indicated by the wind because that's the direction that the approach from Pittsburgh is.

Then there was all the noise I made when I pushed through the wrong door from the ramp. :rolleyes: (The "secure" "passenger terminal" one is just 20 feet away from the one that goes to the FBO in the same buiding. BTW, the "secure area" outside is a small yellow box painted on the ashphalt.)
 
Horizon flies into Pangborn several times a day. I usually hear "Wenatchee traffic, Horizon 123" and whatever else he/she needs to say. We usually let them go ahead of us, seeing as they have a schedule to keep and we're just up wasting fuel and having fun.
 
Speed said:
Not to get off subject, but not at Horizon... Horizon has probably got one of the oldest seniority lists of the regionals. Upgrade time here is around 7-8 years right now. And the Captain is the only ATP unless the First Officer has gone and gotten one on his own.

As a side, a typical Horizon new hire (at least when I got hired two years ago) has either 3000tt with a type rating and Pt 135 experience, or is a UND graduate with 600tt.
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Hey, Stacey, how you?
 
Speed said:
Not to get off subject, but not at Horizon... Horizon has probably got one of the oldest seniority lists of the regionals.
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YMMV
Still, I've seen more than one Embraer with a couple of baby faces sitting up front.
 
Speed said:
Busy busy busy... sold my laptop so I don't have much time to keep up with the boards anymore. I only get a day or two at home each week to play. You still flying with Classic? One of these days I should come down there and let you give me a ride. :D
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Not flying there so much as I used to (though I still do when needed). Joined the RFC Club and fly one of the Bonanzas most of the time (Celia does *not* like to go slow!).

Still, one of these days I am going to have Cassie hook me up for a Comm rating, "just because it's there." And she is gonna get my wifie fixed up with a pinch-hitter course.

I still credit you, Stacey, with relieving my irrational aversion to crosswinds (Stacey says, "The runway's wider than the landing gear, isn't it?").

Call anytime.
 
SCCutler said:
I still credit you, Stacey, with relieving my irrational aversion to crosswinds (Stacey says, "The runway's wider than the landing gear, isn't it?").

Call anytime.
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This young lady had to remind me that the tower at Charleston could see me better at night if I would turn on my landing lights :redface:
 
DeeG said:
Horizon flies into Pangborn several times a day. I usually hear "Wenatchee traffic, Horizon 123" and whatever else he/she needs to say. We usually let them go ahead of us, seeing as they have a schedule to keep and we're just up wasting fuel and having fun.
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Hey, I was in KEAT this summer. Didn't know you were based there.
 
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