Airline B.A Recommendations???

D

Davis276

Filing Flight Plan
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Jun 7, 2019
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Gypsy00
Hello, I'm currently training for my private with intentions to go to the reginals and then majors.
I have done some searching online to find reginals do not require a degree. But I have seen many majors..well...all that I have seen so far are requiring a B.A but, it does not specify. I'm assuming any B.A would be sufficient. At the moment I do not have any collage experience but do have my high school diploma. If I could ask for some opinions on would you recommend me obtaining my B.A before ATP training or pursue a B.A online during a reginal airline job? I do realize there are pros and cons to each but I was hoping some opinions would help me make a appropriate decision. Secondly, do you guys really feel any certain degree would..in the correct circumstances...help me land a major job easier.
Thanks so much.
 
Any BA will do. As soon as possible. Concurrent with training if possible.
 
I would get flight training on the faster track, get some credits along the way, then rack up flight time. Whatever you do, try to have a 4 yr degree completed about the time you’re competitive for the ‘majors’.

That may be online, whatever, as long as it’s legit & accredited.

You hear about the ‘backup plan’( to a piloting career). It’s almost more-so the individual than the degree on the wall.
 
Right now there are ways to get there without a ba. majors have flow through programs with their regionals that give you a seniority number on day one. The down side is the industry can change in a day, ask anybody that was in the industry on 9-11-2001. The ba gives you options when, not if, the down turn comes. Do not get an aviation degree. That does not give you options. Getting the degree while getting the 1500 hrs needed to get hired is the better way in my option.
 
The day after you fail your medical, you are little more than unskilled labor to a hiring employer. Get a degree that will allow you to obtain employment in a field that you enjoy. Art History will get you employment at Starbucks if that is a field you enjoy. Otherwise, do something serious.

At your age, of course, you know you are going to live forever and will never have health problems that could affect your medical. "Do you feel lucky, punk?"
 
Davis276 said:
Hello, I'm currently training for my private with intentions to go to the reginals and then majors.
I have done some searching online to find reginals do not require a degree. But I have seen many majors..well...all that I have seen so far are requiring a B.A but, it does not specify. I'm assuming any B.A would be sufficient. At the moment I do not have any collage experience but do have my high school diploma. If I could ask for some opinions on would you recommend me obtaining my B.A before ATP training or pursue a B.A online during a reginal airline job? I do realize there are pros and cons to each but I was hoping some opinions would help me make a appropriate decision. Secondly, do you guys really feel any certain degree would..in the correct circumstances...help me land a major job easier.
Thanks so much.
Click to expand...

Since reading your original post two days ago, I've been wrestling with whether or not to respond. The intent of forum replies, emails, texts, and similar fast forms of written communication can frequently be misinterpreted. I am responding to be helpful, and not in any way to disparage or belittle. An undergraduate degree is a good idea, and I echo the thoughts of the previous poster, airdale; pursue a degree that interests you and enhances your employability in the event that a medical issue negates or shortens your aviation career. Engineering, business, statistics, technology, accounting... just a few of the many choices. I'd avoid non-specific "Liberal Arts," "Humanities," "Music Studies," and similar programs; they make a lot of money for colleges and may very well be fascinating courses of study, but won't put bread on the table or gas in your tank.

Here's the part I was wrestling with... no matter what you DO choose to study, take some writing classes and care about doing well in them. In general, care about writing well, even on forums. I hated English classes in high school (back in the 70s) and disliked writing term papers and theses immensely throughout undergrad and grad school. However, the ability to communicate effectively through the written word is of great importance in many, many professions, even if only to get your "foot in the door" and secure an interview by writing an intriguing, coherent letter of inquiry or application. At this point in my life, I actually enjoy writing, perhaps because of the many doors opened to me because of it over the years. Your original post, if read by a potential employer, might not show you at your best.

As I said, I'm just trying to help, and don't mean to come off as the "grammar and spelling police." Best of luck to you!
 
MuseChaser said:
... Your original post, if read by a potential employer, might not show you at your best. ...
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Actually, @MuseChaser is being kind. I have hired many people. If your cover letter had spelling and grammar errors like your OP does it would go into my wastebasket on my first screening pass. I guess I passed over that point since lots of forum posts have spelling and grammar errors, including mine sometimes, but he is right. You will need to be an effective writer to succeed in almost any job.
 
airdale said:
Actually, @MuseChaser is being kind. I have hired many people. If your cover letter had spelling and grammar errors like your OP does it would go into my wastebasket on my first screening pass. I guess I passed over that point since lots of forum posts have spelling and grammar errors, including mine sometimes, but he is right. You will need to be an effective writer to succeed in almost any job.
Click to expand...

Oh, I don't know. I constantly see emails from managers at my employer with gross misspellings and bad grammar. Seen it at previous employers as well. It seems as if no one cares. It's a shame.
 
luvflyin said:
Is there any statistic that says a college education makes a better pilot?
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No, but that’s not why (some) airlines require the degree.
 
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airdale said:
The day after you fail your medical, you are little more than unskilled labor to a hiring employer. Get a degree that will allow you to obtain employment in a field that you enjoy. Art History will get you employment at Starbucks if that is a field you enjoy. Otherwise, do something serious.
Click to expand...

"I have a BS in Chemical Engineering... I haven't done anything related since graduation because I wanted to be a pilot. It's been 7 years and I'm unemployed."

That'll get a job offer... never.
 
Ravioli said:
"I have a BS in Chemical Engineering... I haven't done anything related since graduation because I wanted to be a pilot. It's been 7 years and I'm unemployed."

That'll get a job offer... never.
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And your point is what? That you have screwed yourself?
 
Ravioli said:
"I have a BS in Chemical Engineering... I haven't done anything related since graduation because I wanted to be a pilot. It's been 7 years and I'm unemployed."

That'll get a job offer... never.
Click to expand...


Well, I would imagine that if one flew for several years after getting a non aviation degree, quit flying for whatever reason (i.e. medical), and then tried to get a job in their degree field that it will be a struggle. But the potential for a job offer and decent check is most likely better with a STEM degree versus liberal arts and either would be better than no degree. And I do think that many employers would be willing to give a more mature entry level candidate a shot even if his knowledge is a bit stale.
 
airdale said:
And your point is what? That you have screwed yourself?
Click to expand...

My point is that the applicant screwed himself.

The "normal" line is get an education to fall back on. Not bad advice.

When you're 5 - 10 years out of college with ZERO experience in your field? How does that work?

And if you're unfortunate enough to get an interview with Ravioli you'll get the question: "So, if things pick up and you can go back to corporate or major flying, are you gonna stick around?"

So, YES, get a degree. But No, it doesn't matter what rusty stuff you're going to have to sell.
 
luvflyin said:
What is the rationale?
Click to expand...

It’s just a way to sort the huge stack of applicants and cut it down to something more manageable. If the applicant pool starts to dry up, you’ll see the requirement drop. The shortage hasn’t hit the majors (yet?), but already you’re seeing people get hired at legacy carriers that wouldn’t have been competitive five years ago.
 
It’s my understanding that airline pilots average about 20 hours work per week, leaving 20 more for something else. If you get a STEM degree, you could become a consultant or contractor in your field and both stay fresh in your field and supplement your income.

I thoroughly second becoming an effective communicator. Spelling and grammar count a lot towards that. Effective communication counts a lot towards the perception you know what you’re talking about and doesn’t get in the way of your message.

A good start would be to find a style manual, read it, and try to follow its recommendations. Good luck.
 
Crashnburn said:
It’s my understanding that airline pilots average about 20 hours work per week, leaving 20 more for something else.
Click to expand...
Yeahhhh...no. Flying domestically your duty time will be roughly double your flight time. And if you are not home every night, your time away from base will be roughly double THAT. Especially if one is junior. Senior pilots may have more control over their schedules, but not really a whole lot.
 
MuseChaser said:
Since reading your original post two days ago, I've been wrestling with whether or not to respond. The intent of forum replies, emails, texts, and similar fast forms of written communication can frequently be misinterpreted. I am responding to be helpful, and not in any way to disparage or belittle. An undergraduate degree is a good idea, and I echo the thoughts of the previous poster, airdale; pursue a degree that interests you and enhances your employability in the event that a medical issue negates or shortens your aviation career. Engineering, business, statistics, technology, accounting... just a few of the many choices. I'd avoid non-specific "Liberal Arts," "Humanities," "Music Studies," and similar programs; they make a lot of money for colleges and may very well be fascinating courses of study, but won't put bread on the table or gas in your tank.

Here's the part I was wrestling with... no matter what you DO choose to study, take some writing classes and care about doing well in them. In general, care about writing well, even on forums. I hated English classes in high school (back in the 70s) and disliked writing term papers and theses immensely throughout undergrad and grad school. However, the ability to communicate effectively through the written word is of great importance in many, many professions, even if only to get your "foot in the door" and secure an interview by writing an intriguing, coherent letter of inquiry or application. At this point in my life, I actually enjoy writing, perhaps because of the many doors opened to me because of it over the years. Your original post, if read by a potential employer, might not show you at your best.

As I said, I'm just trying to help, and don't mean to come off as the "grammar and spelling police." Best of luck to you!
Click to expand...
You know what?
I really do appreciate your honesty and you do have a valid point. Thank you for taking the time and giving me your opinion.
 
airdale said:
The day after you fail your medical, you are little more than unskilled labor to a hiring employer. Get a degree that will allow you to obtain employment in a field that you enjoy. Art History will get you employment at Starbucks if that is a field you enjoy. Otherwise, do something serious.

At your age, of course, you know you are going to live forever and will never have health problems that could affect your medical. "Do you feel lucky, punk?"
Click to expand...
I do enjoy reading books pertaining to liberal arts..social sciences. But, I would probably obtain a STEM degree.
 
Ravioli said:
"I have a BS in Chemical Engineering... I haven't done anything related since graduation because I wanted to be a pilot. It's been 7 years and I'm unemployed."

That'll get a job offer... never.
Click to expand...
Aside the engineering degree...have you went through all your flight training?
 
Ravioli said:
"I have a BS in Chemical Engineering... I haven't done anything related since graduation because I wanted to be a pilot. It's been 7 years and I'm unemployed."

That'll get a job offer... never.
Click to expand...
I have a degree in electrical engineering. I started flying in college and never got a job in engineering. I've been a 121 pilot for over 20 years. About 15 years ago I was talked into doing some engineering consulting for a company my family was involved in. It took a little research to get back up to speed but it morphed into me starting a small company on the side that now makes almost as much as my flying job with most of the work being done on my laptop on overnights. I can think of worse things to do with 20hrs n Phl. So you can put that degree to use years later.
 
unsafervguy said:
I have a degree in electrical engineering. I started flying in college and never got a job in engineering. I've been a 121 pilot for over 20 years. About 15 years ago I was talked into doing some engineering consulting for a company my family was involved in. It took a little research to get back up to speed but it morphed into me starting a small company on the side that now makes almost as much as my flying job with most of the work being done on my laptop on overnights. I can think of worse things to do with 20hrs n Phl. So you can put that degree to use years later.
Click to expand...
Do you ever have any regrets flying and perhaps wish you would have started engineering after collage?
 
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Davis276 said:
Do you ever have any regrets flying and perhaps wish you would have started engeening after collage?
Click to expand...
No. I would never make it in an office 8hrs a day. I have the best of both worlds. I do the projects I want to do and set my own schedules with my own company.
 
My degree is in electrical engineering. In 30 years of my career I can count the times I used my EE skills to use on the job on one hand I think. Of course, I was gainfully employed (and being a credentialled EE got me into a better pay category when working for the Army).
 
(Speaking as someone who has spent a career in technology and technology management and has reviewed thousands of resumes)

Fair or not, a degree tells me that the applicant has successfully completed an obstacle course. This requires tenacity, discipline, and yes -- a degree of intelligence. It also tells me that the applicant probably has some capability for logical and critical thinking. Importantly, if as the hiring manager I am NOT a pilot, I do not appreciate that success as a pilot (but no degree) might also be a credential of this sort.

If a grounded pilot comes to me, maybe 10 years after a STEM degree, especially engineering, that person will definitely pass my first screen. There are lots of jobs that do not require Nobel-winning technical expertise. For example, project management. For that underappreciated talent, I need the ability to juggle lots of balls, the ability to think under pressure, and the capability to at least understand and appreciate the technical activities within the project. I also need to see the perspective that comes from maturity and some trials by fire. A "retired" line or military pilot with an engineering degree would be a very strong candidate for such a job. Alternatively, at a lower job level, such a person could be an outstanding customer support engineer. I can have him trained in the technical aspects of my company's product and that, combined with his/her experience and talents would be an excellent fit. In hiring a person like this I would also be thinking career path -- success in that first job will open up other opportunities within my company.

So ... @Davis276: Get that degree. And, please, not in English Lit, Art History, Women's Studies, etc. Get what I call a "trade school" degree that prepares you for an actual and specific job: Teaching, engineering, etc.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Yeahhhh...no. Flying domestically your duty time will be roughly double your flight time. And if you are not home every night, your time away from base will be roughly double THAT. Especially if one is junior. Senior pilots may have more control over their schedules, but not really a whole lot.
Click to expand...
Thanks I didn’t know that
 
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