Aircraft Stalls as Skydivers Prepare to Jump

True, but some DZs look the other way. I have done it (skydive) thru clouds many times. I can say I've skydived IFR :cool:
It's not only illegal, it's really stupid. There may be planes you can't see under those clouds. And your jump pilot might not make all his calls because he doesn't want to incriminate himself.
 
In addition to the comments about the plane spinning - Skydivers are allowed to drop through clouds? I would have thought not.
Aircraft had South African registry, which is where I assume this incident happened. Not commenting on the stupidity, but it's possible it isn't prohibited under SA regs.....

Ron Wanttaja
 
I had a college professor who was Former Army Airborne. He said they use to walk two at a time to back of the C-130 every minute or so. When everyone was in the back, they would all run to the front at the same. He said after he got out of the service and got his pilot’s license he realized how effing stupid it was, but it was great fun as an 18 year old. :)

I guess it's better to run from back to front than forward to back.
 
True, but some DZs look the other way. I have done it (skydive) thru clouds many times. I can say I've skydived IFR :cool:
I think this happened in South Africa. They may have different rules there. Don't know for sure.
 
I am always a bit suspicious when the entire event is recorded by a jumper so well...

During most jump-runs a number of the jumpers will carry high quality helmet cameras. There are dedicated videographers in wingsuits who follow the tandems, AFF students and formation groups. During the jump run, all the cameras are rolling already. Would be suprising not to have footage.
 
“ I asked and was told that non-jumpers only have to wear a chute if it's a single engine piston.

I have no idea if that correct or not.”



You have to wear a chute as a pilot if there is no “divider”.

in the pac-750 I don’t have to wear one, if I’ve got a pax in the right seat, they’re supposed to.
 
Many years ago when the reserve chute was worn in front, I was exiting the door when my reserve ripcord caught on a projection. The canopy went outside in a flash followed by me. The canopy went under the tail, rather than over , or on the tail. The pilot was not wearing a chute.

Just saying. Things happen. I would not be in a jump plane without a chute.

This was Spain where they did things a bit differently. :oops:
 
Ha, the one forum I didn't look in. The other post is better.
 
Threads have been merged.

Nauga,
and his progressive spin
 
I find that scary. I could be 500' below that cloud layer when these guys come busting through. If traveling towards the sun, the visors would block them out until they were right in front of me. In the video, it seems like they pulled shortly after passing through, but that's not saying they have to.
 
"Stand up... Hook up... Shuffle to the door..."

"Move... Single file... Feet together, knees bent, roll..."

(And I got paid $63.00 IIRC.)
 
"That's not a Vmc demonstration, this is a Vmc demonstration."
 
I find that scary. I could be 500' below that cloud layer when these guys come busting through. If traveling towards the sun, the visors would block them out until they were right in front of me. In the video, it seems like they pulled shortly after passing through, but that's not saying they have to.

I try to avoid flying through drop zones when I'm not dropping skydivers myself. You probably wouldn't see them until it's too late anyway.
 
I think this happened in South Africa. They may have different rules there. Don't know for sure.
Comments about lions on board the airplane would be culturally insensitive I suppose...
 
It's not only illegal, it's really stupid. There may be planes you can't see under those clouds. And your jump pilot might not make all his calls because he doesn't want to incriminate himself.

I find that scary. I could be 500' below that cloud layer when these guys come busting through. If traveling towards the sun, the visors would block them out until they were right in front of me. In the video, it seems like they pulled shortly after passing through, but that's not saying they have to.

Skydivers are tiny dots in the sky, and are descending between 7,000 and 15,000 fpm shortly after exit, depending on what type of jump. The chances of doing a normal see and avoid aren't good.

It's been my observation that DZs will drop divers through thin scattered and broken clouds. I don't think this adds any danger to the jump, since it's unlikely that you'll see them, and they have very limited ability to avoid you. In any active DZ, In addition to falling meat bombs, there will be an airplane making a world class descent back to the DZ or airport. These are all good reason to not fly close to a drop zone.

I try to avoid flying through drop zones when I'm not dropping skydivers myself. You probably wouldn't see them until it's too late anyway.

When I was flying GA, I made it a point to avoid drop zones. They're clearly marked on charts, few and far between, and not very large, so it's no trouble to avoid them.
 
good points I suppose about avoiding when possible
but they aren't something to completely avoid. Skydivers are used to mixing with airport traffic....and it's completely fine to fly in. Just mind local procedures
 
Jumped from a KA this weekend, this video was brought up numerous times and we were all very conscious of crowding the door.
 
Based on what was written in the setup for a jump it was intentional. That’s just full retarded. I flew sky divers in a c-90 king air and all that crap is not necessary.
Whoa, now that you mention it, that makes sense.

I originally put it down to improper technique/training or panic. Did you check out the elevator position throughout the maneuver? If it wasn't intentional, the pilot clearly froze with the stick in his chest, blanking the rudder, keeping R Aileron in quite a while. I keep thinking what if he recovered after only 1 turn, on a different heading; he could have shredded some people.

So if this was intentional, the practice should be stamped out. I hope somebody investigates the operator.
 
Based on what was written in the setup for a jump it was intentional. That’s just full retarded. I flew sky divers in a c-90 king air and all that crap is not necessary.

That was something I was wondering. Is it really necessary to slow to VMC with one engine idled? I mean that was the perfect VMC demo gone wrong. Is that a common practice in all twin jump ships? I don't think they idle the engines on a single to reduce prop blast.
 
That was something I was wondering. Is it really necessary to slow to VMC with one engine idled? I mean that was the perfect VMC demo gone wrong. Is that a common practice in all twin jump ships? I don't think they idle the engines on a single to reduce prop blast.
Frankly it sounds like a relatively inexperienced pilot is being taken advantage of by an ignorant manager. To have the airplane stable at a constant airspeed it requires a certain amount of thrust. Pulling props back doesn’t change much of anything other than a number on the rpm and torque gauge. The actual amount of thrust will be the same. Doing a VMC demo while the meat sacks are running around in the back is just stupid.
 
Youtube just suggested a video of the same thing happening to a King Air jump plane here in the States. Video is from 5 months ago.
 
I find that scary. I could be 500' below that cloud layer when these guys come busting through. If traveling towards the sun, the visors would block them out until they were right in front of me. In the video, it seems like they pulled shortly after passing through, but that's not saying they have to.

What?

Why would you fly through a jump run?

Part of flying is getting all information for the planned flight, if you’re going to be flying over a spot on the chart with the parachute, or the jumping activities rings in ForeFlight, it only takes a minute to lookup the drop zone call and ask about their operations if unfamiliar, or just avoid it if you can’t make the simple phone call.
 
What?

Why would you fly through a jump run?

Part of flying is getting all information for the planned flight, if you’re going to be flying over a spot on the chart with the parachute, or the jumping activities rings in ForeFlight, it only takes a minute to lookup the drop zone call and ask about their operations if unfamiliar, or just avoid it if you can’t make the simple phone call.
Really? This exact scenario happened to me. On a day with a cloud layer similar to that in the video, I was flying into a small municipal field with a skydiving op on the field. Started listening to CTAF and making calls 10 miles out (in a Cub, so figure 10 minutes). Zero calls from a jump plane. Since there's a relatively low ceiling, I figured they're not jumping. When I call short final, the jump pilot suddenly blurts out, "Jumpers away at 4000'," which was a lie, since 15 seconds later there were jumpers under canopy swooping across the runway as I was about to touch down, and the jump plane was nowhere to be seen (read above the clouds).
 
Really? This exact scenario happened to me. On a day with a cloud layer similar to that in the video, I was flying into a small municipal field with a skydiving op on the field. Started listening to CTAF and making calls 10 miles out (in a Cub, so figure 10 minutes). Zero calls from a jump plane. Since there's a relatively low ceiling, . When I call short final, the jump pilot suddenly blurts out, "Jumpers away at 4000'," which was a lie, since 15 seconds later there were jumpers under canopy swooping across the runway as I was about to touch down, and the jump plane was nowhere to be seen (read above the clouds).


“I figured they're not jumping”


didn’t call ahead of time and ask about where the drop and if they are jumping that day

flew through the area they drop, yes you can, but you can also fly through active warning and MOAs


Also did you review the jumpers footage to see if he went through a cloud and it wasn’t just the angle of your view?


Sounds like you put yourself into a bad spot

How can you avoid having this happen to you again? Do you think it would have been worth a phone call before the flight, avoiding the area where jumpers are dropped, or any other ideas?
 
“I figured they're not jumping”
Because they didn't do what they're legally required to do when they're jumping, and this DZ is rarely active on weekends.

didn’t call ahead of time and ask about where the drop and if they are jumping that day
Did you read what you responded to? I called ahead on the medium designated for them to be monitoring and talking on.
flew through the area they drop, yes you can, but you can also fly through active warning and MOAs
I didn't fly through the area they jump, I landed at a public airport, same as them.

Also did you review the jumpers footage to see if he went through a cloud and it wasn’t just the angle of your view?
It has nothing to do with going through a cloud. They have the same cloud-clearance requirements we do: 2,000 horizontally. Do you believe it was possible for any of the jumpers in the video to maintain that (or that they even tried)?

Sounds like you put yourself into a bad spot
:rolleyes:
 
Because they didn't do what they're legally required to do when they're jumping, and this DZ is rarely active on weekends.

Did you read what you responded to? I called ahead on the medium designated for them to be monitoring and talking on.
I didn't fly through the area they jump, I landed at a public airport, same as them.

It has nothing to do with going through a cloud. They have the same cloud-clearance requirements we do: 2,000 horizontally. Do you believe it was possible for any of the jumpers in the video to maintain that (or that they even tried)?

:rolleyes:

And how did you judge that jumpers cloud clearance?

If you’re on my right side, and I hold my hand out and drop a spoon from my left side it will look like the spoon went through my hand, do you think the spoon went through my hand?

I would call the drop zone and just ask, but I don’t like having close calls and like more information

Most airports I have seen the jumpers don’t swoop across the runway, if that was the case you should have a talk with the mangement, ever drop zone I have seen the jumpers have a area near the airport or on the airport where they land, and a certain jump run to conduct, knowing this is very important if you choose to cohabitate the same space as a drop zone

I helped out at a skydive party, followed all the rules, one of the jumps I had someone about to jump my helicopter, and BENETH us comes a Cessna, we made all the calls and I had both my radios monitoring, nothing. Told the jumpers to hold, waited, and they jumped uneventful. I asked the old timer what happed and if he was ok after I landed, he started to blame ME, the jumpers, I invited him to look at the go pro footage, now it was his radio that was at fault.

I’m happy to analyze my mistakes, and I make them, as do we all, the problem is when you’re getting into bad spots and it’s never any of your fault, there is a chance that’s true, but it’s not likely
 
Youtube just suggested a video of the same thing happening to a King Air jump plane here in the States. Video is from 5 months ago.

Hence my terse biblical quote as a reply. This is a well known risk for King Airs. This wasn't the first one and as long as there is a supply of raggedy KAs cheap enough for drop zones to buy, there will be videos of those incidents. There are only so many people you can hang out of the door at relatively slow jump-run speed until the aft CG interferes with controlability.
 
And how did you judge that jumpers cloud clearance?

If you’re on my right side, and I hold my hand out and drop a spoon from my left side it will look like the spoon went through my hand, do you think the spoon went through my hand?

I would call the drop zone and just ask, but I don’t like having close calls and like more information

Most airports I have seen the jumpers don’t swoop across the runway, if that was the case you should have a talk with the mangement, ever drop zone I have seen the jumpers have a area near the airport or on the airport where they land, and a certain jump run to conduct, knowing this is very important if you choose to cohabitate the same space as a drop zone

I helped out at a skydive party, followed all the rules, one of the jumps I had someone about to jump my helicopter, and BENETH us comes a Cessna, we made all the calls and I had both my radios monitoring, nothing. Told the jumpers to hold, waited, and they jumped uneventful. I asked the old timer what happed and if he was ok after I landed, he started to blame ME, the jumpers, I invited him to look at the go pro footage, now it was his radio that was at fault.

I’m happy to analyze my mistakes, and I make them, as do we all, the problem is when you’re getting into bad spots and it’s never any of your fault, there is a chance that’s true, but it’s not likely
Cool story bro. The sand pit between the skydive hanger and the runway is the area they aim for. How do you think they approach when the wind is from the west?

Screenshot_20211113-153357_Maps.jpg

Does it surprise you when your experience isn't exactly the same as everyone else's?
 
Cool story bro. The sand pit between the skydive hanger and the runway is the area they aim for. How do you think they approach when the wind is from the west?

View attachment 101817

Does it surprise you when your experience isn't exactly the same as everyone else's?

I didn’t think it was that cool of a story, and I’m far from your brother.

Seems they should move the landing zone, having jumpers cross a runway is a bad idea

It doesn’t surprise me, I’m still a low time commercial, however I have already seen what assuming can do.

I’m very cautious with drop zones, they have as much of a right to be there as me, and they can kill me just as fast as IIMC
 
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Youtube just suggested a video of the same thing happening to a King Air jump plane here in the States. Video is from 5 months ago.

N256TA seems to have a storied history. No idea if there is more than one airframe involved.

https://planecrashmap.com/plane/ca/N256TA/
23 Jul 2016
Beech 65 A90
operated by Bay Area Skydiving

sustained substantial damage following a loss of control while climbing

After landing at C83, a witness observed that the airplane's right horizontal stabilizer, with the attached elevator, was missing.

###

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2021/01/beechcraft-a90-king-air-n256ta-fatal.html
Beechcraft A90 King Air, N256TA: Fatal accident occurred June 21, 2019 near Dillingham Airfield (PHDH), Mokuleia, Hawaii

Injuries: 11 Fatal
Flight Conducted Under: Part 91: General Aviation - Skydiving

KathrynsReport.jpg
 
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