Aircraft 6,000 MGTOW or less that require SIC?

Brad Z

Brad Z

Final Approach
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Brad Z
Greetings folks-

I'm trying to do some research to determine if there are any certified aircraft out there with a maximum gross take off weight of 6,000 pounds or less that require a second pilot? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but I suspect there are many folks here more knowledgeable than I. Figured I'd query the braintrust before thumbing my way through TCDSs online.
 
Cirrus SF50 for one. Website list MTOW as 6k

I’m sure there are other jets out there as well with a MGTOW of 6 or below

edit: whoops sorry for some reason I thought you said type rating! You said SIC, my bad :(
 
kgruber said:
I'm thinking any Pt 135 air taxi that flys IFR without an autopilot.
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So if there was an operator flying something like an old 206 or 207 or 208 shuttling people back and forth...and they fly IFR they would need a SIC?
 
Last I knew, you could not fly passengers IFR in any single part 135. But that has been a few years ago.
 
kgruber said:
I'm thinking any Pt 135 air taxi that flys IFR without an autopilot.
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Thanks. I should clarify that I'm looking specifically as required by type certificate, as opposed to by op specs or in some cases, by exemption.

My interest is specifically regarding part 91 operations and exercising private pilot privileges (not for comp or hire).
 
Brad Z said:
Thanks. I should clarify that I'm looking specifically as required by type certificate, as opposed to by op specs or in some cases, by exemption.

My interest is specifically regarding part 91 operations and exercising private pilot privileges (not for comp or hire).
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I don't think you are going to find an aircraft type that size not certified for single pilot operation. The only exception would be as noted above, where Ops specs require it.

Greg Bockelman said:
Last I knew, you could not fly passengers IFR in any single part 135. But that has been a few years ago.
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Not sure if you mean single pilot, or single engine, but the answer is yes you can.
 
Brad Z said:
determine if there are any certified aircraft out there with a maximum gross take off weight of 6,000 pounds or less that require a second pilot?
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FWIW: if I recall, during the minimum crew discussions for the Part 23 rewrite, it was stated in several docs that the majority of Part 23 aircraft were certified for single pilot operations with only a few requiring 2 pilots. Since Part 23 includes aircraft up to 19000 lbs I would think your sample of aircraft under 6000lbs would be statistically minute leading to a "needle in a haystack" search through the TCDS. Perhaps reverse course and prioritize those aircraft <6000lbs you're interested in first then research the TCDS?
 
Bell206 said:
FWIW: if I recall, during the minimum crew discussions for the Part 23 rewrite, it was stated in several docs that the majority of Part 23 aircraft were certified for single pilot operations with only a few requiring 2 pilots. Since Part 23 includes aircraft up to 19000 lbs I would think your sample of aircraft under 6000lbs would be statistically minute leading to a "needle in a haystack" search through the TCDS. Perhaps reverse course and prioritize those aircraft <6000lbs you're interested in first then research the TCDS?
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Thanks. A needle indeed. I think I'm going to try to pull a list of the 100 most common aircraft types under 12,500 active in the FAA aircraft registry (the registry has very broad weight categories). I should be able to rule out 90% of them real quickly, and then spot check the rest. Then I can at least definitively say there are or aren't any among the most common aircraft out there.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Last I knew, you could not fly passengers IFR in any single part 135. But that has been a few years ago.
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Caravan and PC 12 are the only single engine planes that can be single pilot IFR that I know of for pt 135 passenger carrying operations. There could be others.
 
Bell206 said:
FWIW: if I recall, during the minimum crew discussions for the Part 23 rewrite, it was stated in several docs that the majority of Part 23 aircraft were certified for single pilot operations with only a few requiring 2 pilots. Since Part 23 includes aircraft up to 19000 lbs I would think your sample of aircraft under 6000lbs would be statistically minute leading to a "needle in a haystack" search through the TCDS. Perhaps reverse course and prioritize those aircraft <6000lbs you're interested in first then research the TCDS?
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I actually can’t think of any part 23 aircraft that exclusively require two pilots.

The 1900 has two type ratings - single pilot and two pilot. The story I was told was that it was originally a single pilot type only, but airlines requested the two pilot type be added since that was a much easier ride and that’s how they flew anyway. To my knowledge all the small part 23 jets are single pilot as well, or at least can be.

It’s an interesting question.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
but airlines requested the two pilot type be added since that was a much easier ride and that’s how they flew anyway.
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I believe it was a Part 23 certification requirement that 2 pilots were required in "commuter" ops vs one pilot with cargo ops, but I could be mistaken. I seem to recall exemptions on the commuter side if pax numbers were 9 and below and allowed single-pilot ops???

FWIW: On the Part 27 side IFR capable helicopters require a second pilot during IFR ops unless an approved/certified SPIFR configuration is installed allowing single pilot IFR ops.
 
Bell206 said:
I believe it was a Part 23 certification requirement that 2 pilots were required in "commuter" ops vs one pilot with cargo ops, but I could be mistaken. I seem to recall exemptions on the commuter side if pax numbers were 9 and below and allowed single-pilot ops???
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The story was told to me by a former Beechcraft test pilot. Remember the 1900 was basically a larger version of the King Air, in fact the 1900 and KA350 shared a type rating for a while (no longer). The commuter ops required two pilots but the aircraft itself does not. So just like on 135 in fixed wing you need two pilots even on a single pilot plane (unless you have autopilot in lieu of SIC authorization) on the 1900 originally you just had the single pilot type rating even if you were only flying it two pilots.

I’m involved with the 1900 a bit and so I see operators (private/part 91) still mostly flying it two pilot and in a lot of cases they go for the “easier” (and perhaps cheaper) type rating when typing their pilots and so those folks only have the two pilot type rating. But I’ve seen flights with pilots who are single pilot typed in it too.
 
Zeldman said:
Caravan and PC 12 are the only single engine planes that can be single pilot IFR that I know of for pt 135 passenger carrying operations. There could be others.
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SR22, Mooney Bravo, A36 all have been approved for single pilot IFR part 135 operations. As mentioned earlier, requires second alternator and redundant IFR instrumentation.
 
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Ted DuPuis said:
but the aircraft itself does not.
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Maybe I have it backwards, or something. But a number of years ago we (old day job) were looking to use some EMB-110s in SA under N reg but needed 2 pilots. Maybe it was for IFR ops as the airplanes were to only support company ops as Part 91. I just don't remember. In the end we used another operator ad hoc with Twin Otters due to the 2 pilot issue and some mx support issues I found.
 
Bell206 said:
Maybe I have it backwards, or something. But a number of years ago we (old day job) were looking to use some EMB-110s in SA under N reg but needed 2 pilots. Maybe it was for IFR ops as the airplanes were to only support company ops as Part 91. I just don't remember. In the end we used another operator ad hoc with Twin Otters due to the 2 pilot issue and some mx support issues I found.
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The Emb-110 I know nothing about, they may have certified it as two pilot.
 
The smaller commuter operators also like the SIC in planes like the Caravan and 1900 as a means to training future PICs. One way to create a path to 1,200 hours.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Last I knew, you could not fly passengers IFR in any single part 135. But that has been a few years ago.
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Incorrect. Caravans and PC12s do it all the time. I wouldn't be surprised if there are TBMs doing it too.

weilke said:
SR22, Mooney Bravo, A36 all have been approved for single pilot IFR. As mentioned earlier, requires second alternator and redundant IFR instrumentation.
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Lot of planes are single pilot IFR capable. The point is Part 135.
 
N1120A said:
Lot of planes are single pilot IFR capable. The point is Part 135.
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Single pilot IFR part 135. There are a few operators with SR22s on part 135 operating certificates. Its a very limited market.
 
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