AFSS Rant

murphey

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Aug 21, 2008
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Display name:
murphey
The charts are 30 miles away, and all I want is the frequency to open a flight plan. Nothing on the FAA website. Nothing on the AFSS website. And if I want to leave a comment to LM, I'm required to create a login account.

I am so tired of having to create a login account (and keeping track of it).

This is customer service?

And no, I did not create the account. I'll wait until I get to the airport tomorrow and look up the info.
 
You could probably pick up a phone and call them to get it. Not what a geek wants to hear, I know, but... :)
 
There are a number of websites the display aeronautical charts, Why don't you look at skyvector.com for one?

Check the airport listing at airnav.com. More often than not a nearby FSS frequency will be listed with the airport data.

I'm at a loss as to why you would need Lockheed Martin's web site for this.

Jon
 
There are a number of websites the display aeronautical charts, Why don't you look at skyvector.com for one?

Check the airport listing at airnav.com. More often than not a nearby FSS frequency will be listed with the airport data.

I'm at a loss as to why you would need Lockheed Martin's web site for this.

Jon
True, and if you're talking about an IFR flight plan, either the national toll-free phone number if on the ground, or look up an approach chart for the airport (or a nearby one) and use the approach/departure frequency from there.
 
How about looking here? Sectionals available for FREE download.
 
The common use frequency for FSS is 122.2. Read the section on Communications in any A/FD....it says very clearly that 122.2 is assigned to most FSS's as a common enroute simplex service. (Says the same thing on the back of a sectional, but of course "charts are 30 miles away."

If you can remember that 121.5 is the emergency frequency you can remember what 122.2 is for, right?

Bob Gardner
 
The common use frequency for FSS is 122.2. Read the section on Communications in any A/FD....it says very clearly that 122.2 is assigned to most FSS's as a common enroute simplex service. (Says the same thing on the back of a sectional, but of course "charts are 30 miles away."

If you can remember that 121.5 is the emergency frequency you can remember what 122.2 is for, right?

Bob Gardner

Yes 122.2 works in Denver but 122.35 is preferred around Denver. In fact, if you call to open a flight plan on 122.2, they'll tell you to contact 122.35.

Why did I search on LM site? Because they own AFSS now, and those frequencies should be there and they aint.

[from here on out, responses to other posters, not Bob]

Now, let's talk about the online A/FD...it has specifics for an airport, a city, a state, a navaid. But it doesn't have the back section that lists the freqs for flight service.

Use skyvector? sure, but why do I need multiple website sources when LM owns the AFSS? Do you notice an echo around here?

Doing an online search for freqs is not that practical. For example, three of the top responses on Google are lists from many years ago (try the early 2000's) and some of the responses have no relevance to flight service. The #1 response is WikiPedia... #2 is a lesson How to Talk to FSS by a flight school. #3 is AOPA in an article about instrument training. Shall I go on?

LM owns AFSS. There should be a way to 1) identify freqs on the AFSS website and 2) I should not need to create a login account to provide feedback.

[end rant, v 2.0]
 
There are a number of websites the display aeronautical charts, Why don't you look at skyvector.com for one?

Check the airport listing at airnav.com. More often than not a nearby FSS frequency will be listed with the airport data.

I'm at a loss as to why you would need Lockheed Martin's web site for this.

Jon

from airnav.com:
"FSS: DENVER FLIGHT SERVICE STATION"

and nothing else. No freqs at all for APA, BJC, FTG, FNL, COS.....
 
Go to the nearest page in the GNS430...Scroll through. It will give you FSS frequencies there.
 
Que Kent telling you how easy it is to find that info on his iPad or the G1000 in 3...2...1 :)
 
Yes 122.2 works in Denver but 122.35 is preferred around Denver. In fact, if you call to open a flight plan on 122.2, they'll tell you to contact 122.35.

Why did I search on LM site? Because they own AFSS now, and those frequencies should be there and they aint.

[from here on out, responses to other posters, not Bob]

Now, let's talk about the online A/FD...it has specifics for an airport, a city, a state, a navaid. But it doesn't have the back section that lists the freqs for flight service.

Use skyvector? sure, but why do I need multiple website sources when LM owns the AFSS? Do you notice an echo around here?

Doing an online search for freqs is not that practical. For example, three of the top responses on Google are lists from many years ago (try the early 2000's) and some of the responses have no relevance to flight service. The #1 response is WikiPedia... #2 is a lesson How to Talk to FSS by a flight school. #3 is AOPA in an article about instrument training. Shall I go on?

LM owns AFSS. There should be a way to 1) identify freqs on the AFSS website and 2) I should not need to create a login account to provide feedback.

[end rant, v 2.0]
Admittedly it's not obvious, but the online AF/D does have the back section. Do a search and at the top of the results is a link that says "Supplemental PDF" that contains the entire back section of the AF/D that includes RCO frequencies, and another titled "Legend" that includes the notes reminding the pilot about common frequencies:


For the current period those direct links are:
A/FD Legend and Supplemental Info

General Information/Directory Legend and Supplemental information are provided below as multiple-page PDF files for the resulting A/FD region.
Legend | Supplemental (PDF)

From the Legend:
Airport terminal control facilities and radio communications associated with the airport shall be shown. When the call sign
is not the same as the airport name the call sign will be shown. Frequencies shall normally be shown in descending order
with the primary frequency listed first. Frequencies will be listed, together with sectorization indicated by outbound radials,
and hours of operation. Communications will be listed in sequence as follows:
Single Frequency Approach (SFA), Common Traffic Advisory Frequency (CTAF), Automatic Terminal Information Service (ATIS)
and Aeronautical Advisory Stations (UNICOM) or (AUNICOM) along with their frequency is shown, where available, on the
line following the heading ‘‘COMMUNICATIONS.’’ When the CTAF and UNICOM frequencies are the same, the frequency will
be shown as CTAF/UNICOM 122.8.
The FSS telephone nationwide is toll free 1–800–WX–BRIEF (1–800–992–7433). When the FSS is located on the field it will
be indicated as ‘‘on arpt’’. Frequencies available at the FSS will follow in descending order. Remote Communications
Outlet (RCO) providing service to the airport followed by the frequency and FSS RADIO name will be shown when available.
FSS’s provide information on airport conditions, radio aids and other facilities, and process flight plans. Airport Advisory
Service (AAS) is provided on the CTAF by FSS’s for select non-tower airports or airports where the tower is not in operation.
(See AIM, Para 4–1–9 Traffic Advisory Practices at Airports Without Operating Control Towers or AC 90–42C.)
Aviation weather briefing service is provided by FSS specialists. Flight and weather briefing services are also available by
calling the telephone numbers listed.
Remote Communications Outlet (RCO)—An unmanned air/ground communications facility that is remotely controlled and
provides UHF or VHF communications capability to extend the service range of an FSS.
Civil Communications Frequencies-Civil communications frequencies used in the FSS air/ground system are operated on
122.0, 122.2, 123.6; emergency 121.5; plus receive-only on 122.1.
a. 122.0 is assigned as the Enroute Flight Advisory Service frequency at selected FSS RADIO outlets.
b. 122.2 is assigned as a common enroute frequency.
c. 123.6 is assigned as the airport advisory frequency at select non-tower locations. At airports with a tower, FSS may
provide airport advisories on the tower frequency when tower is closed.
d. 122.1 is the primary receive-only frequency at VOR’s.
e. Some FSS’s are assigned 50 kHz frequencies in the 122–126 MHz band (eg. 122.45). Pilots using the FSS A/G
system should refer to this directory or appropriate charts to determine frequencies available at the FSS or remoted
facility through which they wish to communicate.
Emergency frequency 121.5 and 243.0 are available at all Flight Service Stations, most Towers, Approach Control and RADAR
facilities.
Frequencies published followed by the letter ‘‘T’’ or ‘‘R’’, indicate that the facility will only transmit or receive respectively on
that frequency. All radio aids to navigation (NAVAID) frequencies are transmit only.
The back section contains both AIR ROUTE TRAFFIC CONTROL CENTERS (Frequencies) and FLIGHT SERVICE STATION COMMUNICATION FREQUENCIES.
 
Oh, and individual airport entries in the AF/D:
DENVER N39°34.21 W104°50.96 DENVER
RCO 122.35 122.2 122.0 (DENVER RADIO) H–3E, 5A, L–10F, A
KAPA:
COMMUNICATIONS: ATIS 120.3 (303) 799–6722 UNICOM 122.95
DENVER RCO 122.35 122.2 (DENVER RADIO)
DENVER APP/DEP CON 132.75
TOWER 118.9 GND CON 121.8 CLNC DEL 128.6
KBJC:
COMMUNICATIONS: CTAF 118.6 ATIS 126.25 (303) 466–8744
DENVER APP/DEP CON 126.1
METRO TOWER 118.6 (1300–0500Z‡) GND CON 121.7
KFTG:
COMMUNICATIONS: CTAF 120.2 ATIS 119.025 UNICOM 122.95.
DENVER APP/DEP CON 128.25 CLNC DEL 121.75 (0400–1400Z‡)
TOWER 120.2 GND CON 124.7 (1400–0400Z‡) CLNC DEL 124.7
KFNL:
COMMUNICATIONS: CTAF/UNICOM 122.7
FT. COLLINS–LOVELAND RCO 122.4 (DENVER RADIO)
GILL RCO 122.65 (DENVER RADIO)
DENVER APP/DEP CON 134.85 CLNC DEL 120.25
KCOS:
COMMUNICATIONS: ATIS 125.0 (719) 596–7040 UNICOM 122.95
BLACK FOREST RCO 122.25 (DENVER RADIO)
R SPRINGS APP CON 118.5 120.6
R SPRINGS DEP CON 124.0
SPRINGS TOWER 119.9 (West) 133.15 (East) GND CON 121.7 CLNC DEL 134.45
 
Sectional Charts are now available on the AFSS website. You can access them from the Weather page individually, or you can display them as an overlay from the briefing window.
 
The charts are 30 miles away, and all I want is the frequency to open a flight plan. Nothing on the FAA website. Nothing on the AFSS website. And if I want to leave a comment to LM, I'm required to create a login account.

I am so tired of having to create a login account (and keeping track of it).

This is customer service?

And no, I did not create the account. I'll wait until I get to the airport tomorrow and look up the info.
I am not sure where you were looking, but the data is there. Yes, there is a pilot specific area that requires logging on but basic information can be found under the various tabs on the main afss.com site. Under "Service Descriptions", and "Inflight Services", the menu item is "VFR Communications".
As to VFR Charts, that IS under the Pilot Portal which does require you to log on. Oddly enough, it goes to skyvector.com.
LockMart does not own the charts. That is still your government. While they have/will stop publishing them, they still own the source.
Under the "Feedback & Contact Us" tab, there are a couple of ways to contact them both named and anonymous. I have found them quite responsive.
 
What Bob said. Even if you forgot charts and your cell phone you have 122.2. If the specialist doesn't want you on there then he'll assign another freq. If you have a cell with reception then there's no excuse. I just got on Airnav and it took me 10 secs to find our FSS freq in the area.
 
from airnav.com:
"FSS: DENVER FLIGHT SERVICE STATION"

and nothing else. No freqs at all for APA, BJC, FTG, FNL, COS.....

That's why you click on the sectional chart. Ft Collins RCO (Denver) 122.4.
 
What Bob said. Even if you forgot charts and your cell phone you have 122.2. If the specialist doesn't want you on there then he'll assign another freq. If you have a cell with reception then there's no excuse. I just got on Airnav and it took me 10 secs to find our FSS freq in the area.


Fire up any Garmin hand held and push nearest, scroll over to FSS. Done.
 
Isn't that what the AFD is for ?
 
Fire up any Garmin hand held and push nearest, scroll over to FSS. Done.

Yep, that too. I don't even use FSS anymore. I use FF everywhere I go.
 
Also you can bring up any of the electronic airport directories and check the communication section to see if it lists an FSS outlet nearby.
 
Admittedly it's not obvious, but the online AF/D does have the back section. Do a search and at the top of the results is a link that says "Supplemental PDF" that contains the entire back section of the AF/D that includes RCO frequencies, and another titled "Legend" that includes the notes reminding the pilot about common frequencies:


For the current period those direct links are:
A/FD Legend and Supplemental Info

General Information/Directory Legend and Supplemental information are provided below as multiple-page PDF files for the resulting A/FD region.
Legend | Supplemental (PDF)

From the Legend:
The back section contains both AIR ROUTE TRAFFIC CONTROL CENTERS (Frequencies) and FLIGHT SERVICE STATION COMMUNICATION FREQUENCIES.

Since the above links are three years old and have expired, here's a link that is independent of the current revision date. It has a link for the current revision date, which takes you to the page where you can do the search mentioned above. (Any old search will do. The links for the legend and supplemental data will appear at the top of the search results.)

http://aeronav.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=aeronav/applications/d_afd
 
Last edited:
I be willing to bet that sometime in the last three years the OP found the information he needed. ;)

:D :D

I guess that's what happens when someone new joins a forum - drags up some ancient thread to comment on it.

I'm also sure in the intervening 3 years the PO found the information she needed. :yes:
 
:D :D

I guess that's what happens when someone new joins a forum - drags up some ancient thread to comment on it.

I'm also sure in the intervening 3 years the PO found the information she needed. :yes:

And if she hadn't, she may have just taken over the data services portion of FSS ... :) lol :D
 
I be willing to bet that sometime in the last three years the OP found the information he needed. ;)

Lol! Didn't even look at the original date. We've all been talking to ourselves the past couple days.:D
 
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