Aerial Photography

[simtech]

So my wife likes to photograph things and was thinking it would be cool to do it from the plane. I am not a comm pilot, I am just taking my wife up and she shoots some photos and if lucky enough might make a few bucks. Could I write off the expense of operating the plane for those times my wife is working business(taking photos)? I could have sworn this was talked about before but couldn't find anything in search. And no its not for tax purposes this year. haha

 

[Henning]

So my wife likes to photograph things and was thinking it would be cool to do it from the plane. I am not a comm pilot, I am just taking my wife up and she shoots some photos and if lucky enough might make a few bucks. Could I write off the expense of operating the plane for those times my wife is working business(taking photos)? I could have sworn this was talked about before but couldn't find anything in search. And no its not for tax purposes this year. haha

If your wife has a photography business, yes, those expenses are deductible.

 

[Geico266]

You will need your commercial license if you make money or want to deduct your plane "legally" on your taxes. Can you do it and get away with it? Sure, until something goes wrong or you get reported.

As a licensed pilot you could apply for a commercial drone license and buy and use a drone to get photos. Then you can sell them legally.

That's how I understand it anyway, YMMV.

 

[Henning]

You will need your commercial license if you make money or want to deduct your plane "legally" on your taxes. Can you do it and get away with it? Sure, until something goes wrong or you get reported.

As a licensed pilot you could apply for a commercial drone license and buy and use a drone to get photos. Then you can sell them legally.

That's how I understand it anyway, YMMV.

2 of 3 Chief Counsel opinions disagree. The last gal made a mess of the precedent. All but the last hold the flying is consequential of the the photography business, and therefor was permissible on a PPL.

 

[N801BH]

You will need your commercial license if you make money or want to deduct your plane "legally" on your taxes. Can you do it and get away with it? Sure, until something goes wrong or you get reported.

As a licensed pilot you could apply for a commercial drone license and buy and use a drone to get photos. Then you can sell them legally.

That's how I understand it anyway, YMMV.

Hmmmmmm...

Interesting concept...

 

[simtech]

As a licensed pilot you could apply for a commercial drone license and buy and use a drone to get photos. Then you can sell them legally.

Im not selling the photos, my wife would be. its would be her business and her husband just happens to own a plane so why not take advantage.

 

[Geico266]

2 of 3 Chief Counsel opinions disagree. The last gal made a mess of the precedent. All but the last hold the flying is consequential of the the photography business, and therefor was permissible on a PPL.

Call the local FSDO and ask them for an opinion.

 

[poadeleted20]

Geico's got it -- if there's money involved (either revenue or a tax deduction), you need CP privileges (CP/ATP ticket and medical valid as Second Class). See this letter for the FAA's position on aerial photography.

 

[Geico266]

So my wife likes to photograph things and was thinking it would be cool to do it from the plane. I am not a comm pilot, I am just taking my wife up and she shoots some photos and if lucky enough might make a few bucks. Could I write off the expense of operating the plane for those times my wife is working business(taking photos)? I could have sworn this was talked about before but couldn't find anything in search. And no its not for tax purposes this year. haha

I notice you are looking for deductions on the appropriate day!

 

[simtech]

2 of 3 Chief Counsel opinions disagree. The last gal made a mess of the precedent. All but the last hold the flying is consequential of the the photography business, and therefor was permissible on a PPL.

is there a link to this? Was wondering who writes it off the business or me personally?

 

[simtech]

I notice you are looking for deductions on the appropriate day!

hahaha too late for this year taxes are already done.

 

[Henning]

Call the local FSDO and ask them for an opinion.

When I first got my PPL and a photography business I walked into the FSDO next door and did exactly that. "I'm a photographer and just got my PPL next door, can I use the planes to take pictures out of?" "Yeah, sure, that's business flying." I operated on that interpretation to the day I got my CPL and it became irrelevant.

 

[kkoran]

You can absolutely write off the operating expenses. Remember to attach your airman's certificate to your tax return so the IRS can forward it to the FAA.

 

[poadeleted20]

is there a link to this? Was wondering who writes it off the business or me personally?

See Post #8, and it doesn't matter who's writing it off -- you can't be flying legally for a business doing aerial work (and this is "aerial work" as defined in 14 CFR Part 119) without Commercial privileges.

 

[poadeleted20]

When I first got my PPL and a photography business I walked into the FSDO next door and did exactly that. "I'm a photographer and just got my PPL next door, can I use the planes to take pictures out of?" "Yeah, sure, that's business flying." I operated on that interpretation to the day I got my CPL and it became irrelevant.

As noted in the Perry letter from the Chief Counsel linked above, even one of the FAA's Regional Counsel got that part wrong, but it's clearly stated now in that letter that what Henning was doing then is in now considered in violation of the regulations everywhere the FAR's apply.

 

[simtech]

See Post #8, and it doesn't matter who's writing it off -- you can't be flying legally for a business doing aerial work (and this is "aerial work" as defined in 14 CFR Part 119) without Commercial privileges.

Got it. I guess I need to expedite the comm rating.

 

[poadeleted20]

Got it. I guess I need to expedite the comm rating.

And make sure you talk to your insurance agent/broker, too, before you start using your personal plane for a commercial purpose -- aerial photography is not normally covered under a "Personal/Business" policy.

 

[Henning]

As noted in the Perry letter from the Chief Counsel linked above, even one of the FAA's Regional Counsel got that part wrong, but it's clearly stated now in that letter that what Henning was doing then is in now considered in violation of the regulations everywhere the FAR's apply.

I would take the two prior pro liberty interpretations to court if it would still apply to me and caused an issue. I would even do it PT-103. And the recent interpretation on monetizing You Tube videos being allowable backs the position this last ***** was wrong about photography. Government gets the respect it earns.

 

[poadeleted20]

I would take the two prior pro liberty interpretations to court if it would still apply to me and caused an issue. I would even do it PT-103. And the recent interpretation on monetizing You Tube videos being allowable backs the position this last ***** was wrong about photography. Government gets the respect it earns.

Please tell us the last time a Federal court accepted a respondent's interpretation of an FAR over the FAA Chief Counsel's in a pilot enforcement action, and extrapolate from that the likelihood of prevailing in such a suit.

Henning can make his own choices about what he does as a pilot, and the only person who might be burned will be him. As a CFI, I cannot in good conscience recommend to other pilots doing something the Chief Counsel has said violates the regulations.

 

[TommyG]

How much photography we talking. A random photo that comes out nice every now and then, or going up going to a certain spot and take specific photos?

 

[James331]

If you're only going to do this like once, meh, roll the dice and you'll probably be fine. More likely to get hit by a bus on the way to cash the check.

If, however, this is going to be a ongoing thing, you'll be wanting a CPL, 2nd class medical and 100hr inspections on the plane.

I've heard of guys getting lit up by competitors when they learned dude wasn't a CPL, info which is easy to find.

So unless this is a one time thing, I'd get that CPL and whatnot.

 

[dans2992]

So, were monetized YouTube videos deemed to be legal with a PPL?

 

[dans2992]

If your wife takes pics out of your car window, does that mean you need a CDL ?

 

[simtech]

If your wife takes pics out of your car window, does that mean you need a CDL ?

She can all she wants, I do have a CDL.

 

[Everskyward]

Interesting. I knew someone who made a living as an aerial photographer. He even had published books and magazine pieces. The FAA certainly would have known who he was. I thought he only held a private certificate and I just looked him up online to confirm it. But don't worry, he died 9 years ago so no one can bring an enforcement action.

 

[poadeleted20]

Interesting. I knew someone who made a living as an aerial photographer. He even had published books and magazine pieces. The FAA certainly would have known who he was. I thought he only held a private certificate and I just looked him up online to confirm it. But don't worry, he died 9 years ago so no one can bring an enforcement action.

Perhaps he was in the Northwest Mountain Region and was relying on the 1995 While letter from that RC which was superseded by the 2010 Perry letter from the CC. In any event, the CC's position is pretty clearly stated in the Perry letter.

 

[Everskyward]

Perhaps he was in the Northwest Mountain Region and was relying on the 1995 While letter from that RC which was superseded by the 2010 Perry letter from the CC. In any event, the CC's position is pretty clearly stated in the Perry letter.

He would have been in the Western Pacific Region but, as I mentioned, he died before 2010 and the rule is apparently interpreted differently now.

 

[Geico266]

Got it. I guess I need to expedite the comm rating.

Exactly! You can also deduct the expense of getting your commercial, IMHO.

You are welcome.

Seriously, look into the drone thing.

 

[midlifeflyer]

2 of 3 Chief Counsel opinions disagree. The last gal made a mess of the precedent. All but the last hold the flying is consequential of the the photography business, and therefor was permissible on a PPL.

Actually, I think it's the other way around. The most current one specifically mentions the other two and says only one of them said it was OK, and that one was not a Chief Counsel opinion but a Regional counsel opinion from 20 years ago.

On top of that, even the disowned one that said OK, only applied to someone who was both the photographer and the pilot. Even if that letter is correct, that doesn't sound like OP's post, in which he describes acting as a platform for another's photography business, and I have not heard of that activity being treated as anything other than one the Part 119 list of activities that require a commercial pilot certificate (but not a operating certificate) for that.

That's the available information in general terms. One is always entitled to make their own risk assessment, act accordingly, and accept any consequences.

 

[midlifeflyer]

He would have been in the Western Pacific Region but, as I mentioned, he died before 2010 and the rule is apparently interpreted differently now.

There have been a number of Regional opinions that have been disowned by the Chief Counsel's office. It seems they suffered from the same problem as FSDOs - local interpretations without national uniformity. I haven't seen (or looked for) anything specific on the subject, but my impression is they are not doing regional Legal interpretations any more without clearing them with the main office. That would make sense.

 

[simtech]

Exactly! You can also deduct the expense of getting your commercial, IMHO.

You are welcome.

Seriously, look into the drone thing.

That's good to know! From my readings to apply for a 333 exemption for UAS operations, one must have a registration number for the drone to fly. Hmm...I don't want to aquire one at this time. Though I bet there is a future in it. 139 exemptions have been granted so far from individuals to companies like exon and what not.