Advice for a 4-year old's first GA flight

labbadabba

labbadabba

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labbadabba
The Amelia Earhart festival is in full swing in Atchison KS this weekend. Part of the festivities is a Saturday morning fly-in for pancakes and the chance to get an up-close look at some vintage aircraft.

I live in Lawrence about 30 miles south and was thinking this would be the perfect way to introduce my daughter (Amelia) to GA. Planning on renting a 162 for the quick hop up there which means that she would be sitting in the right seat, I'll be putting her in a booster so she can see and so the seatbelts will fit properly. She's a risk taker but machines do frighten her a bit. I got her a child-sized headset which she thinks is pretty cool.

I think I'll have her tag along while I do the walk-around and then get her strapped in.

Anyone have any advice for taking up young offspring for the first time?
 
A booster may not fit. Make sure you have full range of motion on the controls.

I found it pretty easy to put preschoolers in the back seat of every four-seater I tried. And they can see a whole lot better back there than you would think. In the front seat, they may see nothing but instrument panel.

A four year old should be OK at telling you what she can handle. But be prepared to cancel the trip if she gets scared during run-up.
 
Don't fly too high. Little ears seem to lead to tears on descent if too high. Of course 30 mi won't be an issue.
Bring gum (for the same reason. Promotes swallowing)
Use the booster. I have found w/o a booster, shoulder belts go against my kids' necks which frustrates them. Collard shirt may help as well.
My kids get on the plane before me and off after so there is no chance of them wandering anywhere that might compromise their safety unnoticed.
 
Booster should fit, the 162 is actually pretty roomy and with the stoke there's lots of leg room. Good advice 6PC about the collared shirt.
 
Don't give it a buildup ahead of time...on the day of, "we're going for an airplane ride now".

My cousin gave her daughter a buildup before I was set to give her a first ride, and she wouldn't do more than sit in the airplane with it not running that day.
 
MAKG1 said:
In the front seat, they may see nothing but instrument panel.
Click to expand...

The panel in a 162 is not full-width. It also flies with considerable elevator-down trim at 65-75% power. Plus, the forward dip in the side windows adds a lot to visibility as well.

labbadabba said:
Booster should fit, the 162 is actually pretty roomy and with the stoke there's lots of leg room. Good advice 6PC about the collared shirt.
Click to expand...

There's a bit of recline with the fixed seats in the 162. Might want to bring something to prop up her back so that she sits a little more upright.

Hopefully it's not too cold that day so you can taxi around with the doors up. :)
 
MauleSkinner said:
Don't give it a buildup ahead of time...on the day of, "we're going for an airplane ride now".

My cousin gave her daughter a buildup before I was set to give her a first ride, and she wouldn't do more than sit in the airplane with it not running that day.
Click to expand...

Yeah, she doesn't know yet. Was debating telling her
 
asicer said:
The panel in a 162 is not full-width. It also flies with considerable elevator-down trim at 65-75% power. Plus, the forward dip in the side windows adds a lot to visibility as well.

There's a bit of recline with the fixed seats in the 162. Might want to bring something to prop up her back so that she sits a little more upright.

Hopefully it's not too cold that day so you can taxi around with the doors up. :)
Click to expand...

Yep, which is why I thought the 162 would be perfect for her. The visibility in that little bug smasher is amazing. Good advice on the seatback. I think the booster has a detachable seatback. I may need to fill the gap between the back of the booster seat and the seat in the airplane since it's not adjustable. If it happens I'll see if I can post some pictures, her reactions are usually worth sharing.
 
Let her know to expect it to be noisy. I think my grand daughter was 3 when we tried it the first time. She was looking forward to it until until I went to full throttle for take off. The noise scared her and we just did the pattern and landed. A year later, she was begging to go again and we had a great ride.
 
You know your daughter better than anyone here but when I take a kid that young up for the first time, I want another adult on board in case the kid freaks out. You might consider a trial run around the pattern with another adult along. Of course you can't do that in a 162, so you might want to get a friend with a 4-seater to take you both up.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Use the booster.
Click to expand...
Just so we're all on the same page...
91.107 states:
(4) Except as provided in §91.107(a)(3)(iii)(B)(3)(iii) and §91.107(a)(3)(iii)(B)(3)(iv), booster-type child restraint systems (as defined in Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard No. 213 (49 CFR 571.213)), vest- and harness-type child restraint systems, and lap held child restraints are not approved for use in aircraft;
Click to expand...
 
I started taking mine up when she was 3. Shes 4 now. After transferring the car seat back and forth a couple times I just bought another (lighter) one. Half the time she's asleep before we've left pattern.

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
 
MauleSkinner said:
Just so we're all on the same page...
91.107 states:
Click to expand...

It IS illegal, unless the booster has a DOT sticker on it. Few if any do, but real car-seats (with 5-point harnesses) often do.

However, it's an interesting exercise to figure out why.

The upshot was that it's based on an NTSB study on a type of booster that no longer exists, when placed in airliner seats. The reg is too broad for its purpose. The risk at the time was quite real -- the seats would come apart and deform in a way that would cause nasty injuries in a crash. Especially the ones that had trays in front.
 
MAKG1 said:
A booster may not fit. Make sure you have full range of motion on the controls.

I found it pretty easy to put preschoolers in the back seat of every four-seater I tried. And they can see a whole lot better back there than you would think. In the front seat, they may see nothing but instrument panel.

A four year old should be OK at telling you what she can handle. But be prepared to cancel the trip if she gets scared during run-up.
Click to expand...

this actually made me pretty nervous during my discovery flight
 
I was about that age when I took my first flight. A 172, I believe - rented by a friend of my dad (also a pilot, but he hasn't been current since many years before that.)

I sat in the back, no car seat or anything. Oddly enough, that's one of my earliest memories, but the strange part is that I only lasted for a few minutes. I remember my dad pointing out a camp ground and after that I was zonked out for the rest of the flight.

The worst part is that I soloed from that very airport about 12 years later. That's what you have to watch out for.
 
MAKG1 said:
It IS illegal, unless the booster has a DOT sticker on it. Few if any do, but real car-seats (with 5-point harnesses) often do.

However, it's an interesting exercise to figure out why.

The upshot was that it's based on an NTSB study on a type of booster that no longer exists, when placed in airliner seats. The reg is too broad for its purpose. The risk at the time was quite real -- the seats would come apart and deform in a way that would cause nasty injuries in a crash. Especially the ones that had trays in front.
Click to expand...
A DOT sticker? Is that accurate? I thought it had to be specifically FAA approved. On another note I didn't see this "CARES" device for kids 22-44lbs when I was looking around a year ago. Seems this would've worked well.

http://www.faa.gov/passengers/fly_children/

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk
 
Keep bank angles shallow and be prepared to turn around. I'd consider using a CARES harness. Otherwise, the 162 is perfect for this mission, enjoy!
 
I got my 1st airplane ride at 4 years old. I was standing up in the back of a T-Craft with my dad's arm wrapped around me. I fell asleep probably before we left the ground. The hour of anticipation before the flight pretty well wore me out. Been hooked on flying ever since.

Brian
 
I took my kids of various ages on first flights - even as "my first passengers" after I got my certificate.

You're already prepared and have gotten good advice. I'll add only this: after the flight begins, you can only do so much to make your 4 year old daughter comfortable, tend to her needs, and so on. So do not let that distract you from the safety of the flight - there is only one of you and you're then PIC first and foremost ;)

I say that because, as I've experienced it with relatively very low flight time, some kids can be unintentionnaly competing for your attention.

Take snapshots (or record video of u can) and whatever you don't get done on the outbound flight, you might be able to do on the return flight. Awesome chance you and your daughter have.
 
loading up.jpg my boys.jpgAiden in C172.jpg

We act like it is a car ride. I install the same seats from the car so my oldest is comfortable and has a place for his water cup. The youngest, now 11 months old, was only 1 month old in the photos and didn't mind a bit.
 
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SixPapaCharlie said:
Don't fly too high. Little ears seem to lead to tears on descent if too high. Of course 30 mi won't be an issue.
Bring gum (for the same reason. Promotes swallowing)
Use the booster. I have found w/o a booster, shoulder belts go against my kids' necks which frustrates them. Collard shirt may help as well.
My kids get on the plane before me and off after so there is no chance of them wandering anywhere that might compromise their safety unnoticed.
Click to expand...

All of this except the gum. Don't give a four year old gum. Use a spill-proof bottle type container with a built-in straw and some juice/water.

Took my five year old up for the first time a few weeks ago, he absolutely loved it.
 
iWantWings said:
Take snapshots (or record video of u can) and whatever you don't get done on the outbound flight, you might be able to do on the return flight. Awesome chance you and your daughter have.
Click to expand...

I've always regretted that I didn't have at least audio of my granddaughter's spontaneous enthusiastic outburst when we were just a couple of hundred feet up on take off.
 
I just did this with my 3 year old for the first time last month. Used a gopro and the $50 cable to get headset audio. Had been mulling that purchase a long time, but so glad I pulled the trigger. Put the vid on Facebook and it was crazy popular. Wife and I still watch it often. Such a good memory, do yourself a favor and record it.
 
Well, the flight didn't happen. Never even got the key in the starter.

She was excited to get to the airport and bounded out onto the ramp and unfortunately the plane was not on the ramp (even tho I had reserved it days in advance).

It was parked behind a C150, C177, and a King Air 250. The 162 was in Annual last 2/2016 and hadn't flown since...hmmm. Probably not going to fly this plane...

Anyway, while waiting for the line guys to pull out ever aircraft int he hanger to get at the Bug Smasher, Amelia and I spoke with a couple other pilots about to fire up their 172s on their way up to the fly-in as well. She took real interest in their pre-flight and was curious about the different parts of the planes. I attempted to get her in the cockpit of one of them just to show her and she resisted, saying she wanted to sit in the back....hmmmm. (the 162 has no back, this may be a problem)

So they finally pulled out the 162 just as the 172s fired up almost exactly at the same time which spooked Amelia a bit. When she climbed into the plane, she crawled into the cargo area behind the seat. Hmmm. No flying today.

So we walked around a bit looking at airplanes. A while later I finally got her to sit in the right seat and work with the stoke to see how it moved the ailerons and elevator; she thought that was pretty cool and she was seemingly more at ease. So I told her we'd power the plane on but not turn over the motor but of course, the 162 had been sitting for 6 months and the battery was stone dead. Hmmm. Definitely no flying today.

I wasn't really comfortable with taking the plane up for its first flight out of annual with my kiddo in the seat, add to the fact that it sat for 6 months as well, I really wasn't too enthused about the plane at that point. Amelia's resistance made the decision easy, so we just spent the morning talking about flying rather than flying itself which is almost just as good.
 
A 177 is actually a really kid friendly airplane, if you have access to it. It has the smallest Cessna panel I've seen in a four seater, it sits lower to the ground than a 172, and the wing is further back so you can see into turns.

You will have to close the door; they are tricky. And very large.
 
MAKG1 said:
A 177 is actually a really kid friendly airplane, if you have access to it. It has the smallest Cessna panel I've seen in a four seater, it sits lower to the ground than a 172, and the wing is further back so you can see into turns.

You will have to close the door; they are tricky. And very large.
Click to expand...

I do, a nice 177RG.
 
The first airplane ride I can remember (1st actual was at 7 weeks of age) was at 2 years old. Front seat of a J-3 cub on a big booster cushion. Couldn't reach the pedals, obviously, but my Dad did let me handle the stick. I couldn't see over the front, so pitch changes weren't as fun as banking, because I could definitely see that. Great times, window open, door down, flying with my Dad. I'm told that for months afterward, I'd meet my Dad at the door when he came home from work with "Go airport Daddy? Fly airplane?" First loop was at age 4ish or so. First logged lesson at 12.

My point is to not wait for some arbitrary age before you take your daughter flying. Who knows, you may be giving them a gift which will inspire them for a lifetime. Don't wait too long. Also, don't make a big deal of it. The more you hype it up, the more they may start to get some anxiety. Just treat it the same as getting in the car and going for a ride.
 
I (like a previous poster) have always made it a practice to take another adult for a child's first ride. Even with my own kids. If something freaks them out and/or they just have a meltdown, I want another adult to handle them so I can fly the airplane. After the first flight, if they do fine (which all of mine did) then I'll take them alone.

John
 
So she finally got the nerve up. Last week, Amelia says to me, daddy, I'm brave now.

Okay, let's make this happen. Fired up the 162 at the FBO and took her up saturday morning. A little bumpy out ahead of major frontal boundary and visibility was not great but she loved it.

As a sidenote, the 162 is a freaking kite and pain in the ass to land. Of the planes that I fly (172, 182, PA28, DA40) it's by far the toughest one to put it exactly where I want it.
 

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labbadabba said:
So she finally got the nerve up. Last week, Amelia says to me, daddy, I'm brave now.

Okay, let's make this happen. Fired up the 162 at the FBO and took her up saturday morning. A little bumpy out ahead of major frontal boundary and visibility was not great but she loved it.

As a sidenote, the 162 is a freaking kite and pain in the ass to land. Of the planes that I fly (172, 182, PA28, DA40) it's by far the toughest one to put it exactly where I want it.
Click to expand...

That's a great grin in the second picture! Worth it all, isn't it?
 
labbadabba said:
As a sidenote, the 162 is a freaking kite...
Click to expand...

Welcome to my world. :D:D The RV-9 will float forever if you let it. You just have to reduce power more when abeam the numbers to dial in the sink rate.

So glad your daughter enjoyed the experience. She's a cutie!
 
MAKG1 said:
A 177 is actually a really kid friendly airplane, if you have access to it. It has the smallest Cessna panel I've seen in a four seater, it sits lower to the ground than a 172, and the wing is further back so you can see into turns.

You will have to close the door; they are tricky. And very large.
Click to expand...

Yep. Also, no side strut, so visibility is great.

My CFII always comments when we go up to practice some approaches how he misses flying in my Cardinal due to the extra roominess in the cockpit.
 
jsstevens said:
That's a great grin in the second picture! Worth it all, isn't it?
Click to expand...

Yep, the "wooooaah!!" she made when we took off was worth all of it. She didn't like the bumps too much and mentioned her tummy felt funny. She didn't want to land but I didn't want leave a bad taste in her mouth. (pun intended)
 
SoCal RV Flyer said:
Welcome to my world. :D:D The RV-9 will float forever if you let it. You just have to reduce power more when abeam the numbers to dial in the sink rate.

So glad your daughter enjoyed the experience. She's a cutie!
Click to expand...

I had power off when I was on short final. I was a little high since I had kind of a funky pattern entry to avoid traffic. Really had to slip the Skycatcher in, but I don't like doing slips in that plane because of the limited rudder authority. She doesn't sink either, I just resigned myself to a very long landing (about 2,500 ft) and checked my pride at the door. lol
 
PPC1052 said:
Yep. Also, no side strut, so visibility is great.

My CFII always comments when we go up to practice some approaches how he misses flying in my Cardinal due to the extra roominess in the cockpit.
Click to expand...

The 162 has the strut behind the window (see in the pic) and about 4 extra inches in the cabin compared to a 172. The windows are also very low as is that panel so the viz in the Skycatcher is tough to beat.

I love the 177 but the panel feels high.
 
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