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RalphInCA

RalphInCA

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RalphInCA
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I have begun studying for my instrument rating.

Just got to the section in my book that discusses ADF navigation. Why is it that my heart sank and I involuntarily said blech?

Oh well, got to do it ... here we go.


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You might get a written question or two but the probably you will have to deal with it on your check ride or in real life is virtually nonexistent.
 
:yeahthat: And note that the FAA has not yet removed the ADF questions from the IR written. But if your plane doesn't have an ADF in it, ADF use and NDB approaches will not be part of your pilot instrument rating practical test (either oral or flight). For instructor trainees, the ADF/NDB material is still testable on the CFI-IA practical test, although oral only if you don't have one in the plane you bring to the test.

As for the IR-A written, if you can remember "MH+RB=MB", you know everything you need to get those questions right.
 
ADF is so easy. Needle always points to the station. You will (almost) always crab (in relation to the needle) so the needle doesn't move.

Easy, peasy.
 
EdFred said:
ADF is so easy. Needle always points to the station. You will (almost) always crab (in relation to the needle) so the needle doesn't move.

Easy, peasy.
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By his posts, everything is easy to Ed. My experience in 40+ years as a CFI is that not every trainee finds everything as easy as Ed does.
 
Perhaps the students aren't the issue.
 
EdFred said:
Perhaps the students aren't the issue.
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Perhaps, but my experience on this issue is pretty much the same as every instructor I've ever met but you. And this is far from the only issue where you seem to feel you easily can do things nobody else finds easy. So maybe you're the finest instrument instructor on the planet -- in which case your students are very lucky to have you.
 
Hey Ed Fred, do you want to be my instructor? I've been looking for the best instructor in the universe. And now that we know you are that instructor…


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Learning the ADF is very important. You need to learn which AM stations play music and which ones just does the news.....
 
The best way to learn (and demonstrate) how the ADF works is not in the plane, nor in the classroom. Too many instructors don't want to think outside the box on how to present information.

"Well the FAA and such and such AC says..."

Yeah, well, just because you've been doing something for a long time, doesn't mean you've been doing it right for a long time.
 
EdFred said:
The best way to learn (and demonstrate) how the ADF works is not in the plane, nor in the classroom. Too many instructors don't want to think outside the box on how to present information.

"Well the FAA and such and such AC says..."

Yeah, well, just because you've been doing something for a long time, doesn't mean you've been doing it right for a long time.
Click to expand...

Perhaps a "common core" standard for fight instruction would work... :stirpot:
 
And Chicago math. Except every time you have a question about it, no one answers.
 
RalphInCA said:
Please explain.


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If you are intercepting a track from the NDB, you slowly “pull the tail” of the bearing indicator to match the intercept angle—when the tail “opens” to match your intercept angle, you are “on track” and should now turn on course; if you are intercepting a track to the NDB, you slowly “push the head” of the bearing indicator to match the intercept angle—when the tail “opens” to match the intercept angle, again you are “on track” and should now turn on course.
 
I was having many issues myself with the NDB questions, especially the ones that involve the figure with 8 airplanes on top and 8 ADFs on the bottom. I looked on youtube for a good video and found this one which made those questions real easy.

https://youtu.be/TEhpSIqwMe0

Hope this helps you as much as it did me:goofy:
 
An NDB approach is considered an emergency procedure, isn't it?:dunno:
 
EdFred said:
The best way to learn (and demonstrate) how the ADF works is not in the plane, nor in the classroom. Too many instructors don't want to think outside the box on how to present information.

"Well the FAA and such and such AC says..."

Yeah, well, just because you've been doing something for a long time, doesn't mean you've been doing it right for a long time.
Click to expand...

Very true. A piece of paper with a compass rose drawn on it, a pencil for the ADF needle, something to mark the NDB position on the ground works great. Half an hour of walking around in a crab while "flying" procedures has done what several hours of boring expensive holes in the sky has not for several people I've worked with.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Very true. A piece of paper with a compass rose drawn on it, a pencil for the ADF needle, something to mark the NDB position on the ground works great. Half an hour of walking around in a crab while "flying" procedures has done what several hours of boring expensive holes in the sky has not for several people I've worked with.
Click to expand...

Great idea.

Learn on the ground - confirm learning in the airplane.
 
MauleSkinner said:
Very true. A piece of paper with a compass rose drawn on it, a pencil for the ADF needle, something to mark the NDB position on the ground works great. Half an hour of walking around in a crab while "flying" procedures has done what several hours of boring expensive holes in the sky has not for several people I've worked with.
Click to expand...

Pretty much. A cone for the NDB, a string or rope laid out for the course, and the instructor to act as the wind to push the student off course to see why you don't just point he nose towards the NDB.
 
Doing ADF is easy. Learning ADF is harder. FAA questions on ADF are impossible. (and ridiculous)
 
Done a bunch of NDB approaches. Never found them difficult. Last time I was IMC was doing the NDB into LHW. Never broke out but the course was pretty accurate.

Now the test questions on NDB NAV, yeah they can be confusing.
 
N747JB said:
An NDB approach is considered an emergency procedure, isn't it?:dunno:
Click to expand...

Not really. If you understand them, they're perfectly reasonable to fly, though I would not want one to be my only option in very bad weather.

In the eastern bloc countries, they used to have (may still have) dual NDB approaches which, if you had two ADF receivers and a dual-needle ADF display, are very intuitive; needles lined up with each other, you're on the runway centerline. Low tech, high effectiveness.
 
SCCutler said:
Not really. If you understand them, they're perfectly reasonable to fly, though I would not want one to be my only option in very bad weather.

In the eastern bloc countries, they used to have (may still have) dual NDB approaches which, if you had two ADF receivers and a dual-needle ADF display, are very intuitive; needles lined up with each other, you're on the runway centerline. Low tech, high effectiveness.
Click to expand...

If properly used, perhaps. But in practice one of those contraptions killed Commerce Secretary Ron Brown.
 
RotorDude said:
If properly used, perhaps. But in practice one of those contraptions killed Commerce Secretary Ron Brown.
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No, flying a procedure that didn't meet U.S. TERPS without the required equipment and ignoring policy by several levels of oversight killed Secretary Brown.
 
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RotorDude said:
If properly used, perhaps. But in practice one of those contraptions killed Commerce Secretary Ron Brown.
Click to expand...

Or maybe being too smart for your own good did it? The "Primary" NAVAID for flying final approach provided an outbound bearing, but with just one ADF how smart is it to use that when there's an NDB up ahead that's also the missed approach point? School smart, real life dead. :(

dtuuri
 
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