Addison, TX PIREPS

LevelWing

LevelWing

Pre-takeoff checklist
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LevelWing
I know we have a lot of Dallas area pilots here so I'm looking for some information on flying into Addison, TX. I may be going there soon and am most curious on how it is transiting through the Dallas Class B. The flight will be VFR. I have no intention of purchasing fuel there -- I'll get it from another airport along the way in and out.
 
Pick up flight following and the class B is no big deal. They'll route you to ADS then hand you off to tower. I always find it easiest to pick up ATIS before entering the Bravo.
 
From where will you be coming? Best practices vary widely based upon this.
 
You can't contact ADS tower directly (Well you can)
Get the ATIS. It will tell you to contact DFW approach so they can transition you into Addison.

Dallas Class B is easy. They clear you in probably 85% of the time.
DFW approach are super nice / easy to deal with.

If you don't buy gas, you may get with a $45 landing fee which is what they charge per gallon of gas anyway so I'd pay the fee.

If you are coming from the north stop in sherman for gas as it is often the cheapest in the country (sometimes they get beat out by Llano down south)
 
More importantly, let us know when you are here and likely some of us will meet you for drinks or whatnot.
 
airport is in a busy metro area, and can be hard to see until you are right on top of it.
 
Go anywhere else. Getting in and out through the B isn't a problem, although you don't really need to be in it, but once you are on the ground, if you shut the engine off anywhere but a private hanger, or the gas pump, you're getting a big fat bill.

Airpark Dallas or Lakeway to the north, or Redbird or Grand Prarie to the south. Unless you are based at ADS, stay away.
 
This all is a shame. I got my private 23 years ago at ADS. I haven't flown since last year when I redid my BFR at 52f. ADS was a great easy airport in the early 90s to use. It's sad to see its not GA friendly. And it was a breeze to fly into. Contact ADS tower over EDS on the way in and that was it.
 
Don't have an engine failure landing towards or departing from KADS or you are screwed. There's no good place for a forced landing around there except for the airport itself.
 
Echo on the landing cost. The $45 is cheaper than the minimum fuel Qty at "higher than other" price/gal.

Also Echo on working with the controllers through the Bravo. DFW area is very easy to work with, given the caveat that you hold up your end and communicate your intensions well.

Another alternate for you is KTKI. It's further out, but still under the Bravo. What's your ground destination?
 
Stryker1112 said:
This all is a shame. I got my private 23 years ago at ADS. I haven't flown since last year when I redid my BFR at 52f. ADS was a great easy airport in the early 90s to use. It's sad to see its not GA friendly. And it was a breeze to fly into. Contact ADS tower over EDS on the way in and that was it.
Click to expand...

It isn't "not GA friendly". It's "not cheap friendly".
 
Not sure what you mean. Their fuel is only 7.33 A FREAKING GALLON today.


This is an actual conversation (90-ish% accurate as best I can recall)
It was a conversation I had w/ Millionair at KADS (Even that name... geez)

Me: Can I come to your field and pick up a friend?
ADS: Sure Can
Me: Will it cost me money to land there if I don't use a car, etc?
ADS: Yes we charge a $45 landing fee.
Me: Last time it was only $25.
ADS: The other FBOs are charging $45 so we increased our fee a bit.
ADS: But if you want, we wont charge you until you drop your friend off.
ADS: so you can just pay $90 before you head back home.
Me: That's very sweet of you.
ADS: We will waive the fee if you buy at least 15 gallons of fuel.
Me: How much is fuel?
ADS: 8.13 a gallon
Me: That seems high.
ADS: Let me see what I can do.

[Hold] "Tall and tan and young and lovely
The girl from Ipanema goes walking
And when she passes, each one she passes goes "a-a-ah!"
When she walks she's like a samba that..."
[Click]

ADS: Sir are you still holding.
Me: With baited breath.
ADS: Ok, we can knock a dollar of per gallon for you this one time.
Me: Hmm. I am out of Denton. Currently fuel is 4.55 per gallon which is not exactly low either.

ADS: Ok, you drive a hard bargin. We will come off another 50 cents per gallon.
Me: So 6.63? Can you see how this is in no way a good deal?
ADS: It is the best we can do.
Me: Clearly we both want me to go to Airpark instead.
ADS: Have a great afternoon
 
SCCutler said:
From where will you be coming? Best practices vary widely based upon this.
Click to expand...
From the west.

SixPapaCharlie said:
You can't contact ADS tower directly (Well you can)
Get the ATIS. It will tell you to contact DFW approach so they can transition you into Addison.

Dallas Class B is easy. They clear you in probably 85% of the time.
DFW approach are super nice / easy to deal with.

If you don't buy gas, you may get with a $45 landing fee which is what they charge per gallon of gas anyway so I'd pay the fee.

If you are coming from the north stop in sherman for gas as it is often the cheapest in the country (sometimes they get beat out by Llano down south)
Click to expand...
Thanks. I'll be coming from the west so the initial plan was to stop at Stephens County (KBKD) on the way in and out because of the cheaper fuel.

SixPapaCharlie said:
More importantly, let us know when you are here and likely some of us will meet you for drinks or whatnot.
Click to expand...
I'm trying to get there this weekend which is short notice for you all. Saturday evening would be the only time I have free (busy weekend) but if you're around and want to meet up, let me know, that'd be great.

docmirror said:
Go anywhere else. Getting in and out through the B isn't a problem, although you don't really need to be in it, but once you are on the ground, if you shut the engine off anywhere but a private hanger, or the gas pump, you're getting a big fat bill.

Airpark Dallas or Lakeway to the north, or Redbird or Grand Prarie to the south. Unless you are based at ADS, stay away.
Click to expand...
I figured there would be a tie down fee for the couple of nights I'm there but $45 for a landing fee is a bit high and their fuel prices are also high. I looked at Airpark Dallas and it looks as though it's still within the Addison Class D but I think I may be going there instead. It's only a few extra miles from ADS anyway so it's not a huge deal.
 
As asked by someone, where in Dallas are you trying to go? This can affect your airport choice.

KADS is okay for much of the northside, but it is expensive to operate out of. A decent alternative is Dallas Love (KDAL) and sing the Business Jet Center FBO in the NE Corner. Andrew Finne (ARflyer here) has been there occasionally with his commercial students.

The other choices:

Ground Destination ---------------- Airport
============================
NE Quadrant of Dallas.....................KTKI, McKinney, TX
NW Quadrant of Dallas....................KDAL, Dallas Love
Downtown.....................................KRBD, Dallas Executive
"Mid Cities"...................................KGPM, Grand Prairie
Fort Worth North............................KFTW, "Meacham"
Fort Worth South............................KFWS, "Spinks"
Texas Motor Speedway....................KAFW, "Alliance"
Texas Motor Speedway....................KDTO, Denton, TX
 
I'll actually be within a few miles of Addison Airport (north central Dallas), which is why I was looking at going into there. I could go into KDAL as it's only about 10 miles away and wouldn't be that far of a drive.
 
LevelWing said:
I figured there would be a tie down fee for the couple of nights I'm there but $45 for a landing fee is a bit high and their fuel prices are also high. I looked at Airpark Dallas and it looks as though it's still within the Addison Class D but I think I may be going there instead. It's only a few extra miles from ADS anyway so it's not a huge deal.
Click to expand...

If you come through the B(I wouldn't), give your dest as Airpark Dallas to the controller, and he'll get you out of the B, and transfer you to ADS tower, don't worry, that's the way they do it. ADS will give you vectors, most likely well to the north anyway. My suggestion is go around the B just to the north at 2300' over the lake, and report to ADS when at the Lewisville dam, inbound for Airpark Dallas. ADS will reply back with a squawk, and may ask to confirm Airpark Dallas. They may give you vectors, but prolly not. Fly straight east to EDS complex, then make a fairly wide descending right turn into the pattern. Get your altitude down, and don't stray too far south of Airpark or you'll get a call from ADS. I ask for a change freq at EDS, and usually they ask you to monitor tower.

Departing: Get ADS ATIS, then call ADS tower on the ground ready to depart Airpark. They will clear you into their D, advise northbound departure, or just take off from rwy 34. Turn left, climbing to 2300' and head for the lake again.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Not sure what you mean. Their fuel is only 7.33 A FREAKING GALLON today.


This is an actual conversation (90-ish% accurate as best I can recall)
It was a conversation I had w/ Millionair at KADS (Even that name... geez)

Me: Can I come to your field and pick up a friend?
ADS: Sure Can
Me: Will it cost me money to land there if I don't use a car, etc?
ADS: Yes we charge a $45 landing fee.
Me: Last time it was only $25.
ADS: The other FBOs are charging $45 so we increased our fee a bit.
ADS: But if you want, we wont charge you until you drop your friend off.
ADS: so you can just pay $90 before you head back home.
Me: That's very sweet of you.
ADS: We will waive the fee if you buy at least 15 gallons of fuel.
Me: How much is fuel?
ADS: 8.13 a gallon
Me: That seems high.
ADS: Let me see what I can do.

[Hold] "Tall and tan and young and lovely
The girl from Ipanema goes walking
And when she passes, each one she passes goes "a-a-ah!"
When she walks she's like a samba that..."
[Click]

ADS: Sir are you still holding.
Me: With baited breath.
ADS: Ok, we can knock a dollar of per gallon for you this one time.
Me: Hmm. I am out of Denton. Currently fuel is 4.55 per gallon which is not exactly low either.

ADS: Ok, you drive a hard bargin. We will come off another 50 cents per gallon.
Me: So 6.63? Can you see how this is in no way a good deal?
ADS: It is the best we can do.
Me: Clearly we both want me to go to Airpark instead.
ADS: Have a great afternoon
Click to expand...

If you *have* to go into ADS for some reason, you're still better off just buying their fuel.

4.55/gal * 15 gal + $45 fee = $113.25
6.63/gal * 15 gal = $99.45
 
It can be tough to find KADS at night although they improved the runway lights I think a year ago. Even so think twice coming in at night VFR for the first time. It kind of blends in with all the lights of the city especially if you come in at an oblique angle. It only has one runway 15/33.
 
AustinPilot said:
If you *have* to go into ADS for some reason, you're still better off just buying their fuel.

4.55/gal * 15 gal + $45 fee = $113.25
6.63/gal * 15 gal = $99.45
Click to expand...

Yes... And the location is great. Whatever you do, don't go to Airpark! That place SUCKS. Unless you like landing on runways with potholes... Sorry but to me the cheaper fuel is not worth that crappy runway.
 
Coming in at night, watch for the big line of really bright lights at the golf driving range which is just north and west of the field. Good reference.

Best, when uncertain, to dial up the Localizer. I base there and have for ten years, and still have issues at night!
 
LevelWing said:
Thanks. I'll be coming from the west so the initial plan was to stop at Stephens County (KBKD) on the way in and out because of the cheaper fuel.
Click to expand...

Fuel farm at BKD is frequently out of service. You might look at dropping south just a little to Eastland (ETN). Fuel's cheaper, too.
 
Graham is fairly cheap at $4.28 today. 28 Mi NE, straight shot to Airpark with no B.
 
It looks like my trip was canceled. Thanks to everyone for the responses. I plan on still getting up there at some point but hopefully I land somewhere that doesn't have the fees that KADS does.
 
Lots and lots of nice places around the metro. Look at the DFW TAC and you can see we're a mecca for GA. C'mon over and spend some time.
 
I just joined a club based out of KADS and have flown out of there twice during the day, including yesterday's checkout.

I was a bit apprehensive about the Bravo and night flight. Turns out Bravo issues, departing, are a non-event. Super easy. Pretty much the same inbound as others have mentioned. Haven't tackled night yet, so I appreciate the insights from you veterans on the night viz challenges.

I think KADS is hard to see during the day (thank you GPS and LOC!), and I imagine nighttime to be less than optimal.

Thanks for all the insights on operating out of the area. I'd love to meet up with some of you more knowledgeable locals as I re-enter aviation after a 15 yr hiatus!
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Not sure what you mean. Their fuel is only 7.33 A FREAKING GALLON today.


This is an actual conversation (90-ish% accurate as best I can recall)
It was a conversation I had w/ Millionair at KADS (Even that name... geez)

Me: Can I come to your field and pick up a friend?
ADS: Sure Can
Me: Will it cost me money to land there if I don't use a car, etc?
ADS: Yes we charge a $45 landing fee.
Me: Last time it was only $25.
ADS: The other FBOs are charging $45 so we increased our fee a bit.
ADS: But if you want, we wont charge you until you drop your friend off.
ADS: so you can just pay $90 before you head back home.
Me: That's very sweet of you.
ADS: We will waive the fee if you buy at least 15 gallons of fuel.
Me: How much is fuel?
ADS: 8.13 a gallon
Me: That seems high.
ADS: Let me see what I can do.

[Hold] "Tall and tan and young and lovely
The girl from Ipanema goes walking
And when she passes, each one she passes goes "a-a-ah!"
When she walks she's like a samba that..."
[Click]

ADS: Sir are you still holding.
Me: With baited breath.
ADS: Ok, we can knock a dollar of per gallon for you this one time.
Me: Hmm. I am out of Denton. Currently fuel is 4.55 per gallon which is not exactly low either.

ADS: Ok, you drive a hard bargin. We will come off another 50 cents per gallon.
Me: So 6.63? Can you see how this is in no way a good deal?
ADS: It is the best we can do.
Me: Clearly we both want me to go to Airpark instead.
ADS: Have a great afternoon
Click to expand...
But the scenery is good at MillionAir ADS. Especially if you are a guy.
 
I don't know about more knowledgeable but staring sept, I'm committing to more communal flying for food, or whatever else. I'll try and offer seats up too. I got to fly with a few POA ers this spring and I enjoy listening to new people share their aviation stories. Everyone seems to have a lot of good ones.
 
Millionaire has almost ZERO ramp space. Seriously. Even if fuel was cheap it would be a disincentive to go there because there is LITERALLY no place to park
 
Everskyward said:
But the scenery is good at MillionAir ADS. Especially if you are a guy.
Click to expand...

:D

My wife is not much into flying with me but recently she took a trip with me and we stopped at an airport in the south that is frequented by military training flights. The young lady that helped us was wearing a tight shirt and very short shorts. There was another young lady similarly dressed. I pretended not to notice :D One of the guys working there got into a conversation with my wife and my wife very naively remarked to him that she was pleased they were giving these young girls an opportunity and hiring them. He told her this was the business model of the owner to try attract the military guys. The penny dropped and my wife looked at me and said "you mean this is like Hooters for pilots?" Yep :lol:

Men are dogs. Let's just admit that and move past it as best we can. :D
 
images


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Last edited:
Datadriver said:
Millionaire has almost ZERO ramp space. Seriously. Even if fuel was cheap it would be a disincentive to go there because there is LITERALLY no place to park
Click to expand...


I use Millionaire whenever I go to ADS (for work) and it is true they don't have much ramp space at the FBO. But line crews are REALLY good at using the space they have. I have not seen any airplane turned away big or small. There might be a short wait whilst they are moving airplanes around but that is rare.

Believe me, if it was a problem, I would not use them.

My $.02
Kevin
 
N53KL said:
I use Millionaire whenever I go to ADS (for work) and it is true they don't have much ramp space at the FBO. But line crews are REALLY good at using the space they have. I have not seen any airplane turned away big or small. There might be a short wait whilst they are moving airplanes around but that is rare.



Believe me, if it was a problem, I would not use them.



My $.02

Kevin
Click to expand...


I agree. We used to go to MillionAir ADS at least a couple times a month. All the people were great and they made very efficient use of the ramp space they have. It shouldn't be a problem at all if you are in a small airplane. They will find a space for it.
 
AggieMike88 said:
As asked by someone, where in Dallas are you trying to go? This can affect your airport choice.

KADS is okay for much of the northside, but it is expensive to operate out of. A decent alternative is Dallas Love (KDAL) and sing the Business Jet Center FBO in the NE Corner. Andrew Finne (ARflyer here) has been there occasionally with his commercial students.

The other choices:

Ground Destination ---------------- Airport
============================
NE Quadrant of Dallas.....................KTKI, McKinney, TX
NW Quadrant of Dallas....................KDAL, Dallas Love
Downtown.....................................KRBD, Dallas Executive
"Mid Cities"...................................KGPM, Grand Prairie
Fort Worth North............................KFTW, "Meacham"
Fort Worth South............................KFWS, "Spinks"
Texas Motor Speedway....................KAFW, "Alliance"
Texas Motor Speedway....................KDTO, Denton, TX
Click to expand...
And Arlington gets no love? *KGKY
 
Does anyone know whether any FBO at KADS will waive their landing fee for Compassion (charity) flights? I know that the a-holes at KIWS won't, with pretty darn good prejudice.
 
BigBadLou said:
Does anyone know whether any FBO at KADS will waive their landing fee for Compassion (charity) flights? I know that the a-holes at KIWS won't, with pretty darn good prejudice.
Click to expand...

Call and talk to a boss (not the very nice, but not-empowered counter girls) at MillionAir. Bet they come through for you.

If not, PM me.
 
BigBadLou said:
Does anyone know whether any FBO at KADS will waive their landing fee for Compassion (charity) flights? I know that the a-holes at KIWS won't, with pretty darn good prejudice.
Click to expand...

Interesting. I've always had good luck with KIWS not only waiving fees, but discounting fuel for Angel Flight. PM me if you're interested and I'll give you details.

KRBD is currently experiencing significant runway construction (down to one 3200 ft strip at the moment, I believe) but is a great airport and very friendly. No landing fees and discounted fuel for compassion flights.
 
Rndmtrvlr said:
Interesting. I've always had good luck with KIWS not only waiving fees, but discounting fuel for Angel Flight. PM me if you're interested and I'll give you details.

KRBD is currently experiencing significant runway construction (down to one 3200 ft strip at the moment, I believe) but is a great airport and very friendly. No landing fees and discounted fuel for compassion flights.
Click to expand...


Me too. No issues at KIWS for me on Angel Flight missions.
 
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