Actual IFR usage for GA flying

Ahh cool seems like direct is more common than I thought.
This whole instrument rating has been a bit weird to me idk if its just been oversold in difficulty or its just being taught in a way that isn't resonating with me. Everything seems geared around approaches and holding ( i guess that is most of the checkride) but to me that's the easiest part. I feel like I could pass the checkride no problem but still have no idea how the "real" world ifr is. Since you all are here and dropping some knowledge is it better to file airways just so you don't get a full route clearance to copy and somehow ask for direct at a point or file airways to a point then direct or w/e. I know you can file whatever you want but is there an unofficial best practice?

EDIT: my instructor is fine with ifr just his experience is pretty much local. For our X-C I know(well 90% sure) I'm gonna get cleared as filed gonna shoot some approaches and it will likely be like any other flight more or less.

Some instructors feel compelled to start with approaches, which I disagree with. Instrument students should master instrument flying first: holding altitude, airspeed, and heading...constant rate climbs and descents, normal and steep bank turns, no-gyro turns, slow flight, stalls--all under the hood. Then navigation...tracking & intercepting radials, flying DME arcs, etc. Next is flying, navigating, and maintaining situational awareness. If you're doing all of that well, approaches are a piece of cake. Honestly, GPS approaches are best done in a sim since the major challenge is procedural.

BTW, if his IFR experience is local, he's likely not very experienced in IFR operations. To be a good IFR pilot you need to take some trips and cross weather boundaries, and make challenging weather decisions.
 
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The PIC curriculum (and Peter Dogan's book that they use) starts with command performance. You identify six realms of flight and what aircraft configuration you use and what resultant roc/speed you expect. Frankly, until you work these out, it's largely a waste of time trying to teach attitude flight. Holding a plane in a reasonable attitude while your chasing configuration is daunting for any student. Once you've mastered this, basic flight, climbs, etc... is straight forward and doesn't take very long. Yes, it's kind of silly trying to fly approaches if you can't hold the plane with the wings level, tracking a course, and entering a constant descent.
 
Everyone has said what you need to hear. I will tell you that when I travel GA, which is quite a bit, I always file and fly IFR. It takes a lot of the guess work out of my 5+ hour flights. At 135 knots you can see a lot of different weather in 5 hours. Please continue your IFR training, but heed the advice of others and use it.
 
One thing you learn about IMC. It's not just about flying in the clouds, it's dealing with all the bad weather. Snow, ice, wind, turbulence, Tstorms, towering cumulus all present problems that go beyond just flying in a cloud looking at the instruments. Find some friendly IMC to start out and don't push the weather.
 
Much of what I have gained learning IFR is how to make better go/no go decisions. If there is icing or nasty weather, I stay on the ground.
 
Also, keep in mind that sometimes "complex" clearances issued on the ground often turn into a "radar vector" or "cleared direct" to a fix way down the line once you are airborne and talking to departure.

That being said, it's critical that you have everything setup and you fully understand the departure clearance before taking the runway.
 
If your tail number is not blocked and you set up an alert on flightaware, you will receive an email with the clearance the moment it gets uploaded into the system. Most of the time, what you get at clearance delivery is pretty close to what flightaware shows.
 
All my flying has really been in the northeast and I have NEVER gotten a direct clearance, not once!
Then come on up to VT or northern NH! You'll be cleared direct more often than not. I've been cleared direct to KMPV from just north of KMHT's airspace even though I filed airways.
 
And only 50nm away in MA you will occasionally, and near CT/RI forget it. It's very specific to your flight. You're more likely to be cleared direct on a short flight that doesn't go between two atc facilities for instance...


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If your tail number is not blocked and you set up an alert on flightaware, you will receive an email with the clearance the moment it gets uploaded into the system. Most of the time, what you get at clearance delivery is pretty close to what flightaware shows.
Most of the time. I've managed to file reasonable clearances, get the accepted by the system, parroted back as expected route, but have CD say "that's not going to work, got your pencil ready?"

From Boston to DC, you're going to get what they give you. Around Chicago you're going over the lake or to KELSI. Most everywhere else, you either get cleared direct at the outset or you can ask for it shortly after takeoff.
 
Most of the time. I've managed to file reasonable clearances, get the accepted by the system, parroted back as expected route, but have CD say "that's not going to work, got your pencil ready?"

No matter what you file, V16 is what you get :)
 
Most of the time. I've managed to file reasonable clearances, get the accepted by the system, parroted back as expected route, but have CD say "that's not going to work, got your pencil ready?"

From Boston to DC, you're going to get what they give you. Around Chicago you're going over the lake or to KELSI. Most everywhere else, you either get cleared direct at the outset or you can ask for it shortly after takeoff.

Then come on up to VT or northern NH! You'll be cleared direct more often than not. I've been cleared direct to KMPV from just north of KMHT's airspace even though I filed airways.

That's funny. Most of my flying for a reason (going somewhere I need to be rather than cruising around) is between BOS and Philly. That is usually when I file and like I said I always get a pretty lengthy clearance consisting of multiple Victor airways. I just assumed that's how it was in the rest of the US.
 
That's funny. Most of my flying for a reason (going somewhere I need to be rather than cruising around) is between BOS and Philly. That is usually when I file and like I said I always get a pretty lengthy clearance consisting of multiple Victor airways. I just assumed that's how it was in the rest of the US.

It's not. Boston to Philly is the 'belly of the beast' when it comes to IFR clearances.
 
I would follow the most of the advice in this thread. I find it is easier to always file. I am only VFR when going less maybe 20 miles. I was lucky, I had at least 10 hours of actual during my training, a couple of times down to minimums, had to divert to an airport with a lower approach, etc. Nothing beats training in actual.

I have zero hours with a safety pilot. I figured the airplane was the most expensive part and that I might as well have an experienced instructor with me. I think it paid off. My goal was to be safe and proficient, not to finish in 40 hours. I fully expected it to take longer. I actually was ready before I got to 40 and had to make a couple of flights to finish up my hours and the check ride was easy. This is not because I am a super pilot (trust me, I am not, I make just as many mistakes at the next guy), I think it was because every hour was with an instructor and we spent an equal amount of time doing ground work.

Jim
 
I have zero hours with a safety pilot. I figured the airplane was the most expensive part and that I might as well have an experienced instructor with me.
I agree. I spent most of my non-instruction time hitting the books, magazines, etc... learning all I could about instrument flight. It worked out well when I finally did do the PIC course. The instructor said he was the first person he had ever taught that he thought he was holding back. I didn't need more book work, just to fly.
 
Be sure to get some training in actual IMC during your training. It's nothing like simulated.

We performed an _actual_ missed ILS on my training. We knew in advance the weather was not good enough to make it into that field, but we were practicing. Valuable experience.

Seems reasonable, but as a counterpoint, I received about 5-10 minutes of enroute IMC during instrument training, everything else was simulated. My first exposure to IMC during an approach was solo. I then worked it down over 3 more flights to precision minimums in actual and then did the same at night. I agree that it's different to simulated IMC, but I personally found it considerably easier than simulated IMC as you're not wearing a view limiting device. There are certainly some psychological differences, granted, but if you're aware of them, it can work out. I'm not advocating it for doing the way I did, but it worked out well.

The sad truth is that many CFIIs are simply not comfortable flying IFR (IMC or IFR), so the catch-all suggestion of "make sure you do it with an instructor first" implies that the instructor knows exactly what they're doing. That's not always case as much as I hate to bring it up.

I also did the majority of my simulated instrument time with a safety pilot (with the blessing of my instructor who was used at the beginning and end of the process, not so much in the middle. I did a ton of self study and sim practice prior to starting formal instrument training, it helped a ton.
 
And yes, one of the reasons we made the RW IFR program was to provide what we felt was some much-needed context around instrument flying, given that SO much emphasis is placed on approaches and holding during training. Well, if you spend all your 40 hours focusing on that, but you have little confidence about flight planning, departure and enroute phases of IFR, then you're much less likely to feel comfortable using your rating and as such, won't get much utility from your rating. You'll shoot your "6 and 6 with token holding" on a sunny day with your buddy, just like always, then you'll swap seats and let him/her do the same and you'll both walk away being "instrument current" but you both know you have zero confidence about flying in the system and wouldn't dream of filing on any significant trip into any significant weather.

I know that sounds super preachy, but I've literally lost count of the number of instrument rated pilots who have told me "yeah, I have a rating, but I've never used it and at this point...never well." That's a sad state of affairs when you consider how much work and misery goes into getting a rating (especially the way IFR is typically taught).
 
Last thought. I know of some independent instructors who teach instrument flying by going on 5-6 day trips with their students over thousand of miles in a wide variety of airspace and weather, featuring towered and non-towered ops and a huge range of approaches. Students come out of that with real confidence as to how to fly IFR in the system. Whereas, 40 hours under the hood shooting approaches in the local area just doesn't yield the same result.
 
Last thought. I know of some independent instructors who teach instrument flying by going on 5-6 day trips with their students over thousand of miles in a wide variety of airspace and weather, featuring towered and non-towered ops and a huge range of approaches. Students come out of that with real confidence as to how to fly IFR in the system. Whereas, 40 hours under the hood shooting approaches in the local area just doesn't yield the same result.
I wish I had done this. It would have been invaluable.
 
Agree. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you _have_ to do it with an instructor, it just helps.

My IFR cross country was in actual. Shortly after rotation, into real IMC, Chicago Departure says "you have a level 4 thunderstorm 5 miles ahead, say intentions".

Looking back, I'm not sure why he didn't just offer a vector, but I asked for vectors and he gave them to me. Anyhow, as a first flight in IMC, I was glad the instructor was there.
 
I disagree with the always file IFR people. It doesn't add that much value to sit on the airways in VMC. Get radar advisories always, and if you haven't filed in a long time, do it, but nothing gives you the benefit of IMC except maybe the hood and safety pilot.


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I disagree with the always file IFR people. It doesn't add that much value to sit on the airways in VMC. Get radar advisories always, and if you haven't filed in a long time, do it, but nothing gives you the benefit of IMC except maybe the hood and safety pilot.


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Yea there are a few people who I know who won't fly VFR and always file even on clear and a million days. Sometimes it makes sense like going into busy airspace but if I can go VFR, I will. It beats sitting on the ground, waiting for the release and getting a screwy route by ATC.
 
True, but only to a point. If it's been a long time since you've filed and picked up a clearance (and a release for non-towered), it's not a bad idea to practice it from time to time to prevent too much rust building up. Once you're away from really busy terminal areas, it should be possible to pick up an IFR clearance that doesn't involve crazy routing. Most pilots who go to a variety of places will end up at such a field at some point, so that'd be a great time to do it if your home airport is, for example, smack dab in the middle of the N90 tracon.
 
Last thought. I know of some independent instructors who teach instrument flying by going on 5-6 day trips with their students over thousand of miles in a wide variety of airspace and weather, featuring towered and non-towered ops and a huge range of approaches. Students come out of that with real confidence as to how to fly IFR in the system. Whereas, 40 hours under the hood shooting approaches in the local area just doesn't yield the same result.
Did this with Ron Levy between DFW and Corpus Christi and back... Really helped with putting the different puzzle pieces together.
 
I wish I had more true IMC in my IFR training. It is not the foggles vs truly in IMC for spatial disorientation that I am referring to but the feeling of the plane when you are in true IMC that was not introduced enough. Flying in clouds that are smooth are no bother as the plane is more than equipped to handle. What I did not get in training was the feeling of being bumped around while in true IMC that these convective clouds are doing. But then again, just because you receive your ticket doesn't mean you cant still go up with an instructor to further your training I guess
 
. . . But then again, just because you receive your ticket doesn't mean you cant still go up with an instructor to further your training I guess

And that is exactly what I need to do. I flew one approach in actual after my check ride. Now nine months after that one approach, I am going to try and get an IPC in actual when the opportunity arises.
 
I've been cleared direct on a 900nm+ flight, through and near, not 1 but, 3 class Bravos.
 
Actually, other than it being a little turbulent, I find real IMC easier than simulated. About the biggest difference with real IMC is that you have to remind yourself it's time to get on the gauges. This I believe is the real killer in VFR-into-IMC more than anything else. Not that people can't fly on the gauges but they don't realize they SHOULD be flying on the gauges.
 
Actually, other than it being a little turbulent, I find real IMC easier than simulated. About the biggest difference with real IMC is that you have to remind yourself it's time to get on the gauges. This I believe is the real killer in VFR-into-IMC more than anything else. Not that people can't fly on the gauges but they don't realize they SHOULD be flying on the gauges.

Also get on the gauges BEFORE you actually get into IMC.
 
And in truth real world IMC for most people = reliable 2 axis autopilot.


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Actually, other than it being a little turbulent, I find real IMC easier than simulated. About the biggest difference with real IMC is that you have to remind yourself it's time to get on the gauges. This I believe is the real killer in VFR-into-IMC more than anything else. Not that people can't fly on the gauges but they don't realize they SHOULD be flying on the gauges.

Stunningly good point. I never thought about it, but I usually transition to gauges a healthy number of seconds before the first transition into IMC. It's definitely about having the right mindset and being resigned to the fact that it's time to be on the gauges, as opposed to, "well, I'll be out of it soon, I should be ok..."
 
This is why really low ceilings on takeoff unnerve me. I like a little time to get stabilized on the climb before imc. Not to mention the, I can't return to the airport in case of trouble factor.


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I disagree with the always file IFR people. It doesn't add that much value to sit on the airways in VMC. Get radar advisories always, and if you haven't filed in a long time, do it, but nothing gives you the benefit of IMC except maybe the hood and safety pilot.


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In my part of the world, filing does not mean sitting on airways. Usually get direct, often easier to transition through some airspace. Usually no waiting for release if tower or communication is available on the field. If it is vmc and I am at a field with no way to get a release over the radio, I will just pick up my clearance in the air. YMMV, but it works for me and keeps my radio skills sharp - one less thing to worry about when you are in actual.

Plus if you keep moving up the airplane food chain, you might be filing every flight to get in the class A.

Jim
 
Yes but then functionally your flight is just getting radar advisories plus a chance of getting busted if you screw up. It doesn't add much. You still talk to atc pretty much the same...


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That's funny. Most of my flying for a reason (going somewhere I need to be rather than cruising around) is between BOS and Philly. That is usually when I file and like I said I always get a pretty lengthy clearance consisting of multiple Victor airways. I just assumed that's how it was in the rest of the US.
I don't doubt it at all. It depends a lot on the airspace. Nashua to Montpelier I always file because it's usually getting dark when I fly that route and I try to never fly VFR at night over remote areas. I basically never get direct from the ground, but as soon as I'm away from the more heavily used airspace, I get it pretty quickly. My only point was that it's not the whole Northeast, just the busier areas.

One time I filed KMPV to KDXR to pick up a rescue dog for PnP. The clearance was to Albany and then a STAR that would have taken me about 50 nm out of my way. It was early afternoon, so somewhere near Albany I cancelled and flew the rest of the way VFR.
 
Filing the airways and routes that you can expect from previous clearance or preferred routes also allow better fuel planning and times. If you plan direct, then don't get it you will be burning more gas and taking more time. Plan the longer route, if you get direct fantastic, you will be early, and have extra gas (assuming direct would allow you to land under max landing weight of course!). I can also add in that in the countless times i have flown from my home base airport to visit family,, literally cant even count how many times i've done that route, every time at some point I will ask for direct, sometimes multiple times from various controllers, and still have never gotten it IFR. It all depends on the airspace and congestion of that airspace you are operating around, sometimes you'll get it, sometimes you won't.
^^^^This. And if you interpret the regs (as supported by a few enforcement actions) this is actually required by the "consider possible delays" but in any case it really makes sense if you think about it.

And on a related note, it's important to keep track of your anticipated fuel remaining at arrival. Under VFR you only have to determine that you have the required reserves when you depart, under IFR you must inform ATC (and change your plans) if winds, reroutes, holds, etc. reduce your available fuel to the point where you no longer have the required reserves.

I've flown IFR over or into almost every state and as mentioned already the direct option availability varies considerably with location. Congested areas like the NY-DC corridor rarely allow it nor does most of Florida for different reasons (my all time record for an unfavorable route was crossing Florida E-W where the ATC required route more than doubled the 140nm direct path). I've found that I can often get a direct or nearly direct route through the mountains on the continental divide but I often follow airways there anyway for safety reasons. If a direct route takes you close to or through Class B airspace it's extremely unlikely you will be allowed to fly that. Typically you'll be rerouted or vectored far enough off course to remain several miles outside and/or 1000 ft below the Class B limits.

Also, in many cases you might as well file direct (with enough fuel to handle a significant re-route) through a congested area even though you aren't likely to get it because in many of those places the route you're going to get depends on things you probably can't learn about and no matter what you file you'll get something else that could be completely different. This is true even if you file the same route as you were given between the same two points the day or week before. More than once I've filed what I thought was an acceptable route based on past experience only to get something radically different in the initial clearance and then once airborne get re-routed again on a third path. This is when an iPad with something like Foreflight and at least a simple autopilot comes in rather handy.

A few other issues with filing direct:

1) The AIM recommends that you include at least one waypoint in each center's airspace you're flying through. But unless that fix is a VOR that defines several airways the controller at your departure airport probably won't know where that is and will ask you for your "heading" to said fix.
I comply with this on occasion, especially if there's a VOR that adds little distance to my route and moves my path well away from any Bravo airspace.

2) Technically you are responsible for avoiding any TFRs along your route although ATC will normally assist you with this enroute.

3) Many pilots will insist that you can't file direct to your destination airport without including an IAF for the approach you intend to use. I disagree completely for reasons that include the fact that there's a good chance I won't know with any certainty whether or not an approach will be required and if so which one will be best at the time I file my plan (which could be more than 24 hrs before the actual arrival time). I add the time required to fly the furthest approach that could be required and then often file direct (for the whole flight or last leg) destination. Even in the unlikely event I go NORDO I can legally fly to the airport's location and then proceed to an appropriate IAF and approach of my choosing.
4) It's a bad idea to file or accept a clearance to any fix that you can't navigate directly to (once in range) with the working installed and IFR approved equipment in your airplane. This is in violation of the regs but it is commonly done and while I haven't ever heard of anyone getting busted for it I'd avoid it because it could result in you having no legal way to navigate the route.

5) A commonly used shortcut that is legal is an ATC issued clearance to a VOR when you're beyond the service volume and the only GPS you have isn't IFR approved. The key is to request "vectors, direct when able" to the VOR rather than just "direct". You can't legally file this but it its a legal clearance to accept and ATC won't mind at all if you manage to remain on the centerline of the GCR to the distant VOR by following your VFR GPS guidance and monitor the VOR when you get close enough to receive it. Of course this won't work for anything but a VOR (ADF is no longer valid for enroute navigation and four-course ranges are hard to find these days).
 
sounds like driving is quicker than filing IFR in New England. LOL
 
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