Active Shooter Training

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kyleb

Final Approach
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Drake the Outlaw
We were required to take "Active Shooter" training today at work.

I think it really bothered the HR types when I asked if they were providing the weapons and ammo or if we needed to provide our own...
 
Total idiocy. Shelter in place and kiss your butt goodbye training. We have fire extinguishers, we have those heart thingies, fire drills, oh gawd lots of sexual harassment training must have that...but no, nobody should have the proper tool of defense to deal with a human caused emergency.
 
We had one of those videos we had to watch. Run Hide Fight I think. Fight was supposed to be the last option. Where I work it would be run to your car and grab your gun so you can fight. I still wish I could carry in the office.... Sigh...
 
When my daughter was teaching high school (student teacher), they had an active shooting drill. One of the assistant principals or counselors had one of those small air horns and was the "shooter". Apparently he and my daughter had some kind of disagreement the day before, so she was the first one "shot". This was all done on a day when no students were present, but teachers were in their rooms for whatever reason. They all went through the motions of a lockdown or whatever their procedures were at the time.
 
It's a sign of the times. We did it back in April.

The problem with running out to the parking lot for your own gun is that you may not make it there and back. From my office, it's a couple of hundred yards away.
 
Can anyone tell me what an inactive shooter is?

How do you tell whether a shooter is the active or inactive variety?
 
Reality is, you should have a plan at any time for a bad situation. Where I grew up (New York City), we just called that common sense. Fighting is usually not the best option, but sometimes it's the only option. Running out to your car to get your gun and then running back inside would not be what I'd do. The goal should be getting out alive. It sounds great to be a hero, but someone coming to shoot up a school or office has probably spent a lot more time thinking about this than you, and has the frame of mind surrounding it. It's also possible he's wearing a bullet proof vest. How good is your aim, really? Plus now you're a guy with a gun inside a building where someone's been firing, how is it inherently obvious that you're the good guy?

Much different than if you happen to be in a 7-11 getting held up or if you're a concealed carry holder and the shooter happens to come into your room/general area. But if you get outside? Stay outside.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Reality is, you should have a plan at any time for a bad situation. Where I grew up (New York City), we just called that common sense
Click to expand...

Seriously...can we just have more "Common Sense" training and leave it at that?
 
Fortunately I work in a shop that is very 2A friendly (just stop by on a Saturday and you're sure to find someone machining something for one of their guns), not only is there one in my toolbox, I know of 3 others in the shop that I could grab if the need arose.
 
kyleb said:
We were required to take "Active Shooter" training today at work.

I think it really bothered the HR types when I asked if they were providing the weapons and ammo or if we needed to provide our own...
Click to expand...
I wouldn't joke about that at work. We have an annual online video course we must do.
 
GlennAB1 said:
I wouldn't joke about that at work. We have an annual online video course we must do.
Click to expand...

I'm all about skewering sacred cows. IMO, calling a group of many together for an hour of training is wasteful of time. First, the odds are very low that there will be such an event at any single workplace. Second, couldn't we send out an 2 paragraph e-mail basically reminding everyone that these things do occasionally happen, and if we do have an active shooter, the best strategy is to run, hide, or fight, in that order of preference...
 
I know of a teacher has a wasp problem ;) so she keeps several can of wasp spray around. The kind that shoots 20 feet and has neurotoxins in it. That and a mechanism to prevent the door closer from opening is about the best we are allowed to do.
 
We have to do this at the college where I work. It is really stupid so called training. Thus is Montana and half of our students hVe rifles in their cars, especially this time of year. I have one in my back office. The videos are terrible, they want you to report it then hunker down and wait for our Barney fife to show up. I think we need to spend that time teaching our students about sexual harassment, rape. That title nine is no joke and is cleaver ly worded to include just about anything you can think of. I tell my students to put the consent in writing and have it notarized! Including everything they think might happen during their encounter.
 
Active shooter training: The duck and cover nuclear bomb drill of this generation.
True story:
Stage setting: My uncle is a Nobel Prize winning nuclear physicist. I grew up in a town 30 miles north of New York City in the 1950's. We did Atomic Bomb drills, every month in my elementary school. I'm now in 4th grade. I'm a total science geek. Even the teachers call me "Doctor".
My uncle was visiting us one weekend when said "The duck and cover drills are totally useless, and the government knows they are total bxllshxt." He then explained, in graphic detail, what would happen if an atomic bomb detonated over or near NYC.
The next atom bomb drill, I refused to participate. Instead, I repeat what my uncle told me, graphically embellishing the burning and the flesh sloughing off, and the radiation sickness, etc. Kids are crying, one kid is puking, the teacher is so screaming mad she drags me by the HAIR to the Principal's office, where I punch the teacher in the nose, and start my story over for the office staff. Chaos ensues, parents are called. Mom is ticked at my uncle and calls him to yell at him. The next day (at my expulsion hearing) Mom, Dad, my uncle and the man credited with inventing the hydrogen bomb are all in the Principal's office. (I told you my uncle was famous) Dad asks the teacher if she actually dragged me by the hair. When she said yes, Mom hit her so hard she went down like a sack of potatoes. More chaos. Punching the teacher immediately comes off the list of charges. I'm accused of causing a riot and spreading lies by accusing the government of lying to us. My uncle explains that I am not lying, in graphic detail. The other scientist produces Top Secret government files from Hiroshima and Nagasaki showing the effects of an atomic bomb blast and by the way atomic bomb are 100 time stronger now.
When they are done, there is dead silence in the room except for the school secretary who is weeping quietly at her steno machine. My "legal team", parents and I file out in silence.
Dad paddles my backside (but not very hard) for hitting my teacher.
I am not expelled from school.
My teacher is transferred out of the district.
I never participate in another "duck and cover drill".

I carry at least 3 weapons on me at all times. Homey don't duck and cover.
 
Palmpilot said:
Can anyone tell me what an inactive shooter is?

How do you tell whether a shooter is the active or inactive variety?
Click to expand...

Active shooter is really a term for the responding authorities. It tells them how many resources need to be deployed to an incident scene and which playbook they are going to use when they get there.

Active shooter is shots are currently being fired at the time of the 911 call. Paramedics generally will not enter an area to treat wounded until police have secured that area.

As opposed to an Inactivate shooter that means someone has been shot and the shooter had left the area, or is otherwise no longer an active threat.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
kyleb said:
We were required to take "Active Shooter" training today at work.

I think it really bothered the HR types when I asked if they were providing the weapons and ammo or if we needed to provide our own...
Click to expand...

Ha Ha, that is awesome. I see you think just like me.
 
Davis Monthan AFB was locked down for six hours about 3 years ago for an "active shooter." There were reports of gunshots heard and ambulances entering and leaving the base. There was even an AK-47 sighting which started the whole thing off.


It was someone with hedge clippers.

People are stupid.
 
Last edited:
Shepherd said:
Active shooter training: The duck and cover nuclear bomb drill of this generation.
True story:
Stage setting: My uncle is a Nobel Prize winning nuclear physicist. I grew up in a town 30 miles north of New York City in the 1950's. We did Atomic Bomb drills, every month in my elementary school. I'm now in 4th grade. I'm a total science geek. Even the teachers call me "Doctor".
My uncle was visiting us one weekend when said "The duck and cover drills are totally useless, and the government knows they are total bxllshxt." He then explained, in graphic detail, what would happen if an atomic bomb detonated over or near NYC.
The next atom bomb drill, I refused to participate. Instead, I repeat what my uncle told me, graphically embellishing the burning and the flesh sloughing off, and the radiation sickness, etc. Kids are crying, one kid is puking, the teacher is so screaming mad she drags me by the HAIR to the Principal's office, where I punch the teacher in the nose, and start my story over for the office staff. Chaos ensues, parents are called. Mom is ticked at my uncle and calls him to yell at him. The next day (at my expulsion hearing) Mom, Dad, my uncle and the man credited with inventing the hydrogen bomb are all in the Principal's office. (I told you my uncle was famous) Dad asks the teacher if she actually dragged me by the hair. When she said yes, Mom hit her so hard she went down like a sack of potatoes. More chaos. Punching the teacher immediately comes off the list of charges. I'm accused of causing a riot and spreading lies by accusing the government of lying to us. My uncle explains that I am not lying, in graphic detail. The other scientist produces Top Secret government files from Hiroshima and Nagasaki showing the effects of an atomic bomb blast and by the way atomic bomb are 100 time stronger now.
When they are done, there is dead silence in the room except for the school secretary who is weeping quietly at her steno machine. My "legal team", parents and I file out in silence.
Dad paddles my backside (but not very hard) for hitting my teacher.
I am not expelled from school.
My teacher is transferred out of the district.
I never participate in another "duck and cover drill".

I carry at least 3 weapons on me at all times. Homey don't duck and cover.
Click to expand...

I grew up and went to elementary school ~3 miles from an active SAC base (read primary target in case of nuclear war). This was the 1960's. We also did the duck and cover drills. I was pretty sure at the time it was useless form a physical security point of view. But I had in interesting discussion with my 22 yo son this week. He talked about how being able to do something actually makes people feel safer. So it performs some level of function in that regard. Repeated fear stress causes cumulative effects. So, apparently, even useless physical security has long term psychological benefits. And, since we all know the odds are strongly against this type of event, the long term psychological benefits are probably important.

John
 
If I run all the way out to the parking lot for a gun, I'm not coming back in.

Best use of a gun in a shooter situation is to clear the path out. I figure they are better at this than I am, they are mentally ready and they have practiced. If I'm trapped and need it then hopefully I have my lead throwing tool with me and maybe I can still get out alive.
 
jsstevens said:
I grew up and went to elementary school ~3 miles from an active SAC base (read primary target in case of nuclear war). This was the 1960's. We also did the duck and cover drills. I was pretty sure at the time it was useless form a physical security point of view. But I had in interesting discussion with my 22 yo son this week. He talked about how being able to do something actually makes people feel safer. So it performs some level of function in that regard. Repeated fear stress causes cumulative effects. So, apparently, even useless physical security has long term psychological benefits. And, since we all know the odds are strongly against this type of event, the long term psychological benefits are probably important.
Click to expand...

I was thinking that as well. Security and safety in general is an illusion, but most people need to feel that illusion is real or it's highly stressful for them. The idea that "Duck and Cover" would do anything if your area was nuked seems laughable today, but I suppose in those days the true capability of nukes wasn't understood by the masses like it is now. We also don't much worry about being nuked today like we did in the early days of the Cold War. Really the biggest threat of death for most of us is crashing while driving to or from work.

If people could get comfortable with the fact that security theater is just an illusion, then we could abolish the TSA. Ahh, it's nice to dream.
 
jsstevens said:
I grew up and went to elementary school ~3 miles from an active SAC base (read primary target in case of nuclear war). This was the 1960's. We also did the duck and cover drills. I was pretty sure at the time it was useless form a physical security point of view. But I had in interesting discussion with my 22 yo son this week. He talked about how being able to do something actually makes people feel safer. So it performs some level of function in that regard. Repeated fear stress causes cumulative effects. So, apparently, even useless physical security has long term psychological benefits. And, since we all know the odds are strongly against this type of event, the long term psychological benefits are probably important.

John
Click to expand...

Once the illusion is shattered with real facts, there is no benefit to going back to MakeBelieveville..
I read chemistry books and learned how to make explosives. But that's a story for another day.
Where the heck is the evil laugh sound effect when you need it?
 
Shepherd said:
Once the illusion is shattered with real facts, there is no benefit to going back to MakeBelieveville..
I read chemistry books and learned how to make explosives. But that's a story for another day.
Where the heck is the evil laugh sound effect when you need it?
Click to expand...

Apparently, even when the facts are known, the illusion prevents some level of stress induced harm to the endocrine and other systems. So it does alleviate real harm. Continuous flight or flight stress with nothing to do to alleviate it (which is what we're talking about here) causes actual physiological harm over time.
 
172andyou said:
Click to expand...

While that was a very anti-gun video and seemed pretty obviously set up to be biased, it did illustrate some of the point. One of my friends was killed at Virginia Tech in the 2007 shooting - there were students who had guns and weren't able to stop the shooter (he went in guns blazing and got them first). My friend was shot in the back of the head and died instantly several weeks before her graduation.

Really, the most applicable use of concealed carry for most of us is not running into a mass shooting situation to stop it, it's for someone trying to harm you personally, hold up a 7-11 when you're in there, etc. There you've actually got a clear understanding of who the bad guy is, and you're in a better position to respond. Or if you happen to be in a building where the shooter comes right in where you are, similarly you know who the bad guy is. It's about timing and location.
 
kyleb said:
We were required to take "Active Shooter" training today at work.

I think it really bothered the HR types when I asked if they were providing the weapons and ammo or if we needed to provide our own...
Click to expand...
Next time, just shrug and say, "Doesn't seem too likely. After all, what are the odds of TWO people having guns here....."

Ron Wanttaja
 
Just reinstalling paranoia and compliance with your overloards.
 
kyleb said:
We were required to take "Active Shooter" training today at work.

I think it really bothered the HR types when I asked if they were providing the weapons and ammo or if we needed to provide our own...
Click to expand...

I know at some employers that remark alone would be considered 'verbal abuse' (because it could make the HR person feel bad).
 
Shepherd said:
Active shooter training: The duck and cover nuclear bomb drill of this generation.
True story:
Stage setting: My uncle is a Nobel Prize winning nuclear physicist. I grew up in a town 30 miles north of New York City in the 1950's. We did Atomic Bomb drills, every month in my elementary school. I'm now in 4th grade. I'm a total science geek. Even the teachers call me "Doctor".
My uncle was visiting us one weekend when said "The duck and cover drills are totally useless, and the government knows they are total bxllshxt." He then explained, in graphic detail, what would happen if an atomic bomb detonated over or near NYC.
The next atom bomb drill, I refused to participate. Instead, I repeat what my uncle told me, graphically embellishing the burning and the flesh sloughing off, and the radiation sickness, etc. Kids are crying, one kid is puking, the teacher is so screaming mad she drags me by the HAIR to the Principal's office, where I punch the teacher in the nose, and start my story over for the office staff. Chaos ensues, parents are called. Mom is ticked at my uncle and calls him to yell at him. The next day (at my expulsion hearing) Mom, Dad, my uncle and the man credited with inventing the hydrogen bomb are all in the Principal's office. (I told you my uncle was famous) Dad asks the teacher if she actually dragged me by the hair. When she said yes, Mom hit her so hard she went down like a sack of potatoes. More chaos. Punching the teacher immediately comes off the list of charges. I'm accused of causing a riot and spreading lies by accusing the government of lying to us. My uncle explains that I am not lying, in graphic detail. The other scientist produces Top Secret government files from Hiroshima and Nagasaki showing the effects of an atomic bomb blast and by the way atomic bomb are 100 time stronger now.
When they are done, there is dead silence in the room except for the school secretary who is weeping quietly at her steno machine. My "legal team", parents and I file out in silence.
Dad paddles my backside (but not very hard) for hitting my teacher.
I am not expelled from school.
My teacher is transferred out of the district.
I never participate in another "duck and cover drill".

I carry at least 3 weapons on me at all times. Homey don't duck and cover.
Click to expand...
I am still waiting for your book to be released, this story could be the opening or chapter two. I always look forward to more stories. You know what they say: Truth is sometimes better than fiction.
 
I don't want to mention names.
While my uncle is now dead, the other gentleman is still alive, still a close friend and colleague, and he might not appreciate my using his name in such a sordid manner.
I'll add a footnote when I write my book.
 
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