Accelerated IFR?

linuxjim

Pre-takeoff checklist
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JJ
Hello All
First post. I got my PPL and a plane last year. Im looking into my IFR and wanting to get your opinions on the accelerated 10 day IFR programs vs. Traditional training. Are they worth it? And also if there are any programs here in the Midwest in or around Chicago, where I'm based, that you might recommend. Thanks.
 
Hello,

I just recently did a 'finish-up course' with AFIT after flying on a more or less regular basis over 8 months. My instructor was very experienced and know after a very short time were our focus has to be to get me ready for the check ride. I was very happy with the instructor and the plane, they found for me and can highly recommend it.

You should expect very intensive flight training during the days, but it is definitely worth it.

Martina
 
Talk to Ron Levy here. He does those. They come to wherever you are.
 
Done it, highly recommend it.

Not for everyone: if you're young, have no problem retaining information and have more time to spare, then it might not be the best or most cost effective path. But for somone like me, who can't even remember what day of the week it is and have a very busy schedule that's hard to plan, it was the only way. But make no mistake - you'll eat, sleep and drink IFR 12hrs a day, every day. It's like drinking from a firehose. No time for anything else during this period.
 
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I did it out in Kansas. Had a great experience. I chose not to do it at home to avoid any distractions. It really was my only choice to be able to commit the time. I recommend that you go into your accelerated training with fundamental IFR knowledge in tact. So, it was a lot of book learning for me and helped with retention so I didn't feel like I was drinking from the fire hose. The actual training consists of a lot of flying for sure but was a ton of fun.

I don't think it is for everyone but for me was really my only choice. And, I am glad I did it.
 
Mmmmm fast food training


Better to think of it as getting your private again.

I fly real IFR/IMC for a living

Not a fan of fast food training.

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Mmmmm fast food training

Better to think of it as getting your private again.

I fly real IFR/IMC for a living

Not a fan of fast food training.

He's adding extra skills to his piloting skill set, not trying to become a brain surgeon. Doing it on an intensified basis may actually have advantages.
 
If you can devote the entire time to it, I think they are great. If you can't...I'd go the traditional route. I did the traditional but I still devoted all my time to it, so it was like an accelerated course.
 
It depends on the student, and the student's commitment to both the training and flying a bunch right after the training is complete.

First, the training is incredibly intense. Most of my students say they were surprised by the level of intensity -- 8-9 hours a day, 10 days in a row, plus an hour or more of homework every night. If you do this on vacation, make sure you're off work for 14 consecutive days, because you'll probably need the other four days at the end to recover before going back to work.

Second, that which is quickly learned is as quickly forgotten unless as quickly exercised. In order to "fix" the newly/quickly learned material in your brain, you must fly one or two IFR hops a week for four to six weeks starting immediately after the practical test. If you don't, within a month, you'll be as though you never took the course (well, not quite that bad, but you certainly won't be ready to launch solo into the IFR system in real IMC).

Third, you'd better be proficient in the plane in which you will take your training. No trading your 172 on a Bonanza two weeks before the IR course, getting five hours transition training from your local CFI, and expecting the IR course to go well. This is especially true for lower-time pilots with no experience in anything but the simple trainer in which they got their 50 XC PIC who then bought something heavy and/or complicated and/or really different, and immediately try to get their IR in it. If you only fly 30 hours a year, and they're the same 30 hours year after year, you probably need a quick proficiency cram course (a commercial pilot flight maneuvers program would be about right) prior to the IR course.

Fourth, you'd better know the nuts and bolts of any IFR GPS or autopilot you have in the plane. While I can teach you how to fly GPS approaches in the normal course of training, the 10-day curriculum doesn't have enough time in it to teach you a Garmin 430 from scratch, no less one of the older, harder-to-use units. If all you know is "direct, enter, enter," it will add at least a day to the program. Add to PIC's daily rate your instructor's expenses for a day, and it's a whole lot cheaper to spend $150 or so and 8-12 hours on your computer with one of the good GPS training courses from Sun Flight Avionics or the like, and then try out your new knowledge on the free Garmin simulator before I get there. For the autopilot, knowing the manual on it is important, including its capabilities and limitations, and any required preflight operational check.

Fifth, you must be academically prepared. If your only IR ground training before the 10-day course is one of those 2-day written test cram courses, you won't know anything but the answers to the written test, and you will not be able to finish the IR flight course in ten days -- figure two to four days extra to learn all the material that would otherwise be learned in a real IR ground training course. I recommend any or all of the following, choice based on your own learning style (and whether or not you can sit still for Martha King):

• Formal IR ground school of 40 hours or so classroom plus home assignments (like those offered by many flight schools and community colleges)
• Self-paced computer based training course like Jeppesen's FliteSchool
• DVD course like King or others
• Book learning, using a good training manual like Bob Gardner's Complete Advanced Pilot or Bill Kersher's Instrument Flight Manual, and/or the FAA Instrument Flight Handbook and FAA Instrument Procedures Handbook

In addition, you should study the following books:

• Current FAR/AIM (especially the ASA version with the list of recommended FAR's and AIM sections for IR/CFII)
• FAA AC 00-6A Aviation Weather
• FAA AC 00-45F Aviation Weather Products

Finally, you must dedicate yourself entirely to the program. Don't just turn off your Blackberry -- leave it in the office. Explain to your family that this isn't a vacation, this isn't even work -- they can't expect you to participate in anything other than your training for the duration. Forget about catching up on your reading (other than IR training books) or email or internet chat. You will eat, sleep, and breathe instrument flying for 10 days, and if you clutter your mind with, or spend your time on, anything else, it won't happen on schedule.

With this preparation, you will find a program like PIC's productive and useful. You'll get real IR training, including sim training (which is highly useful in making the flight time more productive -- teach on the ground, practice in the plane), from a highly experienced instructor (PIC's average 8000 hours) with real-world IFR experience, and you will be well-prepared for actual IFR operations. You will also experience real IFR flying in real IFR weather -- something I consider invaluable, and something your local time-building CFI with no significant real IFR experience may not be comfortable doing. Without this preparation, you'll just end up tired and frustrated – and your instructor will, too, because s/he wants you to succeed just as much as you do.
 
I did the PIC course and it was exactly what I needed. There's no getting bored at the rate things are fed to you in that course. Everything C'Ron says above is absolutely true (obviously he knows as an instructor). I was initially told that some CFI from Salisbury would likely be my instructor, but C'Ron had another commitment that week and I got a nice guy from Tennessee who was excellent as well. He knew my avionics well (called me up and told me to have my laptop with the Garmin 480 sim available for our ground stuff so we could practice "button mashing" on that). He took home the book on my autopilot the first night and learned that.

As for the "quickly learned...quickly forgot" comment. Frankly, I don't think that tediously learned is any less quickly forgot. No matter how you got your IR the trick is exercising the skills lest it goes away. Perhaps not forgotten, but it's not as automatically remembered as you would need it to be to be on top of your game.
 
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Thanks for all the great info. This is helpful as I prepare. I have taken some traditional lessons and have signed up for ground school so I hope this will help. I have 50 hours in my Super Viking and 6 hrs actual IMC. Ill definitely spend a a few more hours on the 430w. I'm sure another key to success is a good instructor and structured program. I'm not confined to Chicagoland so I would appreciate any additional recommendations on instructors or locations.
 
I did it out in Kansas. Had a great experience. I chose not to do it at home to avoid any distractions. It really was my only choice to be able to commit the time. I recommend that you go into your accelerated training with fundamental IFR knowledge in tact. So, it was a lot of book learning for me and helped with retention so I didn't feel like I was drinking from the fire hose. The actual training consists of a lot of flying for sure but was a ton of fun.

I don't think it is for everyone but for me was really my only choice. And, I am glad I did it.

Prairie Air Service?
 
I'm not confined to Chicagoland so I would appreciate any additional recommendations on instructors or locations.
As you have your own plane, PIC will send an instructor to you with a transportable sim, or you can travel to the instructor's location, or you can meet at another location of your choosing (somewhere south of the Mason-Dixon might be a good idea for a Chicago area trainee this time of year -- I've taken a couple of NJ clients to NC in the winter). You can learn more about PIC, which has been doing this for about 35 years, by checking http://www.iflyifr.com or calling 800-I-FLY-IFR.
 
Ron's exhaustive post above should be a sticky post here on POA.
 
Mmmmm fast food training


Better to think of it as getting your private again.

I fly real IFR/IMC for a living

Not a fan of fast food training.

What do you mean by fast food training? Does a 10 day course not teach to the same practical test standards as "fly a bit here, fly a bit there" instrument training over the course of five years and half a dozen instructors?

Accelerated training is how professional organizations train flight students. You don't get your type rating over a six month period, so why should you do your instrument rating that way?

Like Ron said, what is learned fast is lost fast. Easy solution to that: spend the extra time after your training filing IFR and flying in the system.
 
If you want to learn the bare minimum go with an accelerated course. If you want to learn how to really fly, and go beyond the PTS find a CFII who didn't get his training at a 141 school.
 
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EF - I'm planning to do my instrument training at a 141 school. Why do you believe as a general rule that it would be better to go elsewhere?

I did my IFR under 61 from an instructor who went through 141. He was fabulous. My students give me great reviews. Where and how your CFI learned has much less to do with the ultimate outcome than how good your particular instructor is.
 
EF - I'm planning to do my instrument training at a 141 school. Why do you believe as a general rule that it would be better to go elsewhere?

Because 141 schools pretty much are like here's the program, we won't teach you anything beyond what you need to know for the PTS. CFIs that come out of those schools generally teach 'here's what you need to pass the check ride.'

I don't teach to just 'pass the check ride'

Are there exceptions out there? Sure, but they are just that, exceptions.
 
I did a 10 day course out of Addison,Texas. I went in with nothing but my written completed. In 10 days I graduated the 141 school and passed the checkride.

It was the most intense 10 days of my life! I went there so I was not pressured by family and had I been home I'm not sure I would have been able to do it. 8 hour days in classroom, sim, and flying, and then about 3 or so more hours every night in homework. I'm glad I did it this way. if I dragged it out I might still not be finished it.

Even after my checkride I still took a CFI up with me in actual until I was really really ready and comfortable. All is good now. Go for it! VA paid for mine so I cant comment on the value other than it was expensive.
 
What do you mean by fast food training? Does a 10 day course not teach to the same practical test standards as "fly a bit here, fly a bit there" instrument training over the course of five years and half a dozen instructors?
Not just to the same standards, but also the same amount of training. When folks do the 10-day with me, they typically log about 15 hours of sim time, 25-30 in the airplane, and 30-35 hours of ground training. So, it's intensive, but otherwise not any less than what you get over six months with a typical 1-2 times/week schedule.
 
Is anyone familiar with Skyport in Texas? They offer an intense 4 week full time IFR program.



http://redbirdskyport.com/flight-school/instrument-rating-course/


I haven't heard of them.

But, 4 weeks!!! Wow. I wouldn't call that intense.

If you assume 40 flight hours and say 30 hours ground, that is no more than 2.3 hours per day, with 1.3 hours in the air. Excluding weekends, that is 3.5 hours and 2 hours in the air. Sounds like a lot of downtime for an accelerated full time program.
 
But, 4 weeks!!! Wow. I wouldn't call that intense.

If you assume 40 flight hours and say 30 hours ground, that is no more than 2.3 hours per day, with 1.3 hours in the air. Excluding weekends, that is 3.5 hours and 2 hours in the air. Sounds like a lot of downtime for an accelerated full time program.
I've had a few clients for the PIC 10-day program for whom this would have been a much better idea. I guess it comes down to what is "intense" for one person may "overload" for another, but is no more than "relaxation" for a third. :wink2:
 
I've had a few clients for the PIC 10-day program for whom this would have been a much better idea. I guess it comes down to what is "intense" for one person may "overload" for another, but is no more than "relaxation" for a third. :wink2:


I am sure you would know better than me for sure.

As for me, 1.X hours in the air and 1 hour ground per session... that was how I did my VFR ticket. Took forever as I could really only fly weekends. I will not do that again.
 
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