A330 Engine Failure & Rejected Takeoff at Manchester

Statistically speaking how long would one have to video every takeoff to capture an engine failure such as this? Pretty cool video!
 
The angle of this shot makes it looks like a non-event, but I'm sure it was quite a busy cockpit!


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Isn't the plane designed to automatically stop if there is a power loss on takeoff?
 
bnt83 said:
Ummm. Airbus pilots please weigh in. Is that the pilots doing the rudder movements or the rudder bias system?
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That's the pilot doing the rudder. If the autopilot is engaged then the computers would take over and trim the rudder. However the pilot would not be using the autopilot during the takeoff run.
 
MultiMediaWill said:
Isn't the plane designed to automatically stop if there is a power loss on takeoff?
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No, the pilot has to make the reject by closing the thrust levers and maintains directional control. The auto brakes will engage and the spoilers will deploy. The pilot also has to deploy the reversers.
 
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Imagine being in that plane. Good time for it to blow at least it wasn't in mid take off..
 
LDJones said:
Better on the ground than somewhere over the Atlantic.
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Yes and no. I'd rather have an engine fail in cruise than on takeoff, but I'd also rather not be in the middle of the Atlantic when it fails, and I've never flown an Airbus.
 
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For those who don't know there are variety of systems installed on jets, to aid in yaw control during engine failures. Specifically, the Cessna Citation series typically have an electrically armed, bleed air driven actuator on the rudder system. Granted these aircraft are cable operated controls not hydraulic.

The rudder bias system is installed to assist the pilot in controlling the sudden airplane yaw resulting from an engine failure at high power settings, such as are used for takeoff. It is an electrically controlled, bleed air operated system with fail safe characteristics
High pressure bleed air is ported continuously from each high pressure manifold to respective sides of the rudder bias cylinder piston. An asymmetric thrust condition between engines results in a difference of pressures ported to the rudder bias cylinder. The differential pressure causes the rudder bias cylinder to exert force on the rudder torque tube in a direction which will correct for the asymmetric thrust. The rudder bias cylinder applies force to the rudder bias arm. This force results in approximately 125 to 150 pounds of force being applied to the rudder pedals to assist the pilot during an engine out condition. As power is reduced, the amount of rudder pedal assist is automatically reduced. Rudder trim may be added as required to assist the rudder bias system in an asymmetrical power situation
 
I just hope that if my airplane ever decides to break on takeoff that there isn't some fool with a camera taping the whole thing. I hope even more that if I ever screw the pooch that there isn't some fool with a camera taping the whole thing. The only thing worse than mucking up is mucking up in front of an audience.
 
I've been thinking about how nice features like autofeather and rudder boost would be on piston twins. I wonder if there would be some way to have a rudder boost using fuel pressure.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I've been thinking about how nice features like autofeather and rudder boost would be on piston twins. I wonder if there would be some way to have a rudder boost using fuel pressure.
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Be relatively easy to do, could even use a Hydraulic pump on each engine to keep the system seperate from those that keep the engine alive such as fuel or oil pressure.
 
Skylane81E said:
Be relatively easy to do, could even use a Hydraulic pump on each engine to keep the system seperate from those that keep the engine alive such as fuel or oil pressure.
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True, but I hate adding systems that don't need to be added. On a Navajo with two hydraulic pumps you could use those. Other advantage with fuel pressure (thinking post-servo) is that it will change with an engine failure. Either fuel goes away resulting in a loss of pressure or spark goes away, which will drop RPMs and result in less fuel flow and a loss of pressure.
 
RotorAndWing said:
No, the pilot has to make the reject by closing the thrust levers and maintains directional control. The auto brakes will engage and the spoilers will deploy. The pilot also has to deploy the reversers.
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Just to get additional clarification (I have VERY little time in a A320 sim) - the auto brakes will automatically come on once the pilot(s) pull the throttles back to idle- not while in the TOGO position even after the single engine is lost? (This is a question- not a statement.)

I.E. auto brakes- not auto unless the power is reduced to idle.
 
This might be a stupid question but would the A330 have enough thrust from one engine to make the climbout and return to the airport? Logic would dictate that all airliners could do so with only one engine, but I'm curious.
 
Swampfox201 said:
Statistically speaking how long would one have to video every takeoff to capture an engine failure such as this? Pretty cool video!
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Big odds against catching that on video....

Although at Manchester there is really well planned out aviation spectator park at the end of the runway, on any day winter or summer there are plenty enthusiasts out there with camera's. The park also has a few neat aircraft on display including a BA Concorde

I fly out of Manchester on Sunday bound for Florida via JFK...I hope our takeoff is less eventful than the A330 attempted launch...:hairraise:
 
A - there is always an audience in Britain - plane spotting is a sport.

B - See that yaw - enough power there if after V1 to take that off but Simon may have gotten a hair cut at the end of the runway!

C - comments in the video guessing - definitely not a compressor stall. Geesh - hows that gonna happen at 70kts on a take off roll?

Every thing worked the way it was supposed to . . . fire trucks got there forthwith.
 
Mattl said:
Just to get additional clarification (I have VERY little time in a A320 sim) - the auto brakes will automatically come on once the pilot(s) pull the throttles back to idle- not while in the TOGO position even after the single engine is lost? (This is a question- not a statement.)

I.E. auto brakes- not auto unless the power is reduced to idle.
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Correct.
 
david0tey said:
This might be a stupid question but would the A330 have enough thrust from one engine to make the climbout and return to the airport? Logic would dictate that all airliners could do so with only one engine, but I'm curious.
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Yes, transports are certified to fly on one engine. The airplane will accelerate and take off, climb on a single engine.
 
comanchepilot said:
C - comments in the video guessing - definitely not a compressor stall. Geesh - hows that gonna happen at 70kts on a take off roll?
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Compressor stalls can happen when a piece of the compressor lets go, which in that case would be one of the blades on an axial compressor stage. BTDT.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Yes and no. I'd rather have an engine fail in cruise than on takeoff, but I'd also rather not be in the middle of the Atlantic when it fails, and I've never flown an Airbus.
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We did a mx test flight on a Duke today after new right engine install. No issue on takeoff but on landing the right engine didn't want to throttle down as we were landing. Had to kill it right after touchdown. A bit of excitement. We think the throttle cable linkage slipped.
 
Mattl said:
Just to get additional clarification (I have VERY little time in a A320 sim) - the auto brakes will automatically come on once the pilot(s) pull the throttles back to idle- not while in the TOGO position even after the single engine is lost? (This is a question- not a statement.)
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Auto brakes are armed in the RTO position for take off. (RTO = Rejected Take Off) The system isn't active until reaching a certain airspeed. I believe that is 80 knots in the 320. Below 80 knots, the autobrakes will not activate. Above 80 knots, one or two things have to happen. I don't remember exactly what, but pulling the power levers to idle will do it. Loss of an engine is NOT one of the things that will activate autobrakes for very good reason.
 
LDJones said:
We did a mx test flight on a Duke today after new right engine install. No issue on takeoff but on landing the right engine didn't want to throttle down as we were landing. Had to kill it right after touchdown. A bit of excitement. We think the throttle cable linkage slipped.
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How is your Duke experience progressing? I haven't noticed any comments about it in a while. I'm always interested in stories about big piston twin ops.

Regarding the A330 video, that's some nice airmanship...the pilot jumped right on it and really showed excellent skills.
 
david0tey said:
This might be a stupid question but would the A330 have enough thrust from one engine to make the climbout and return to the airport? Logic would dictate that all airliners could do so with only one engine, but I'm curious.
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Most definitely, YES.
 
david0tey said:
This might be a stupid question but would the A330 have enough thrust from one engine to make the climbout and return to the airport? Logic would dictate that all airliners could do so with only one engine, but I'm curious.
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Can't link it from iPhone, but there's a very good video of a 757 losing an engine during rotation (filmed by the same guy I think). Just search "757 bird strike Manchester" on YouTube.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Auto brakes are armed in the RTO position for take off. (RTO = Rejected Take Off) The system isn't active until reaching a certain airspeed. I believe that is 80 knots in the 320. Below 80 knots, the autobrakes will not activate. Above 80 knots, one or two things have to happen. I don't remember exactly what, but pulling the power levers to idle will do it. Loss of an engine is NOT one of the things that will activate autobrakes for very good reason.
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On the A320(319) the auto brakes and spoilers arm at 72 knots. And the settings on Airbus are "Low", "Medium" and "Max". On takeoff the auto brakes are selected "Max".

A318/A319/A320/A321 FLIGHT CREW OPERATING MANUAL

AIRCRAFT SYSTEMS LANDING GEAR

BRAKES AND ANTISKID - DESCRIPTION

AUTO BRAKE - GENERAL Applicable to: ALL

GENERAL The purposes of this system are : to reduce the braking distance in case of an aborted takeoff to establish and maintain a selected deceleration rate during landing, thereby improving passenger comfort and reducing crew workload.

SYSTEM ARMING The system arms when the crew presses the LO, MED, or MAX pushbutton switch if: Green pressure is available. The anti-skid system has electric power. There is no failure in the braking system. At least one ADIRS is functioning. Note: 1.Auto brake may be armed with the parking brake on. 2.MAX autobrake mode cannot be armed in flight.

SYSTEM ACTIVATION Automatic braking is activated: at the command for ground spoilers extension (Refer to DSC-27-10-20-C Speed Brakes and Ground Spoilers - Speed Brake Control), for LO and MED mode. at the command for ground spoilers extension and the aircraft speed is above 40 kt, for MAX mode. Therefore, if the aircraft makes an acceleration stop and begins to decelerate when its speed is under 72 kt, the automatic braking will not activate because the ground spoilers will not extend. For autobrake to activate, at least two SEC's must be operative.

SYSTEM DEACTIVATION The system deactivates : When it is disarmed (Refer to DSC-32-30-10-A Auto Brake - System Disarming). When the ground spoilers retract. In this case it remains armed.

SYSTEM DISARMING The system disarms when: Flight crew presses the pushbutton switch or, One or more arming conditions is lost or, Flight crew applies enough deflection to at least one brake pedal when autobrake is active in MAX, MED or LO mode. After take-off/touch and go.
 
Can a Boeing 747 sustain lift and/or climb with 1 out of 4 engines working? 2/4? 3/4?
 
I thought it looked like a compressor stall. I wonder what the wind was.

I saw the exact same thing happen at the Farnborogh air show once. It was one of the huge Russian An-999999's or whatever they call them. The guy is rolling down the runway for takeoff and there's a loud bang and a fireball ejects from the engine, the airplane stops on the runway. Hilarity follows.

A real crowd pleaser for sure!
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Compressor stalls can happen when a piece of the compressor lets go, which in that case would be one of the blades on an axial compressor stage. BTDT.
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No, that's not a compresser stall, the technical word for that is 'explosion'. ;)

A compressor stall is caused by disruption of the airflow through the engine. A cross wind can cause compressor stalls in some airplanes. Often the engine is undamaged after a compressor stall.

Compressor stalls on takeoff runs are, if not common, certainly something that happens from time to time.
 
JimNtexas said:
No, that's not a compresser stall, the technical word for that is 'explosion'. ;)

A compressor stall is caused by disruption of the airflow through the engine. A cross wind can cause compressor stalls in some airplanes. Often the engine is undamaged after a compressor stall.

Compressor stalls on takeoff runs are, if not common, certainly something that happens from time to time.
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Not necessarily true that a blade liberation results in an explosion. A single compressor blade can break (it happens), and might even make it through the core without much secondary damage. However the resultant airflow disruption can create a compressor stall, especially at high power.

Now if I had to guess, it's probably just a garden variety compressor stall, but I just wanted to point out another potential cause folks might not be familiar with. :)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Not necessarily true that a blade liberation results in an explosion. A single compressor blade can break (it happens), and might even make it through the core without much secondary damage. However the resultant airflow disruption can create a compressor stall, especially at high power.

Now if I had to guess, it's probably just a garden variety compressor stall, but I just wanted to point out another potential cause folks might not be familiar with. :)
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Farmiliar with variable inlet guide vanes and variable stator vanes typically moved by a large band that hooks them all together powered by a fuel operated hydraulic actuator? Surge valves? etc. Very, very high parts count. Seems like many things could cause comp stall.
 
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