A320 Rotation Technique for Takeoff

[ted6357]

1. Would you say this Embraer 190 is rotating at 5 degrees per second [if not 10 degrees per second!!]?

2. Do you think the PF knows the tailstrike angle and purposely rotated very quickly to just below that angle and stopped there for liftoff?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckrtgJIOVEI

 

[denverpilot]

Looks to me like the pilot was pitching to a specific angle and stopped at that angle. It flew off a tiny fraction of a second prior to him stopping with plenty of space between the tail and the ground in a freeze frame, even if it hadn't flown off.

 

[Sluggo63]

Whatever. I've flown out of John Wayne, we just used close in Departure Procedures like anywhere else, it's still V2+10, then reduce thrust and hold V2+10 to 3000' AFE.

I don't know what airline/aircraft you were flying out of SNA, but we have 4 pages worth of 10-10 pages describing how to do a takeoff out of SNA. You're right, it is V2+10 to 3000', but our procedures have us reducing to "Quiet Power" at 850' and flying with that reduced power setting to 3000'. As far as I know, SNA is the only airport we fly into that has these "Quiet Power" settings, which are less than the standard Climb Thrust that we use everywhere else.

Granted, we only fly A300s into there, which I don't fly, but the instructions are in there for those guys.

 

[fiveoboy01]

Looks like a pain in the butt LOL.

"Noise complainers" are some of the worst people on the planet, I swear.

If you want no noise, buy a place in the middle of nowhere..

 

[RotorAndWing]

I don't know what airline/aircraft you were flying out of SNA, but we have 4 pages worth of 10-10 pages describing how to do a takeoff out of SNA. You're right, it is V2+10 to 3000', but our procedures have us reducing to "Quiet Power" at 850' and flying with that reduced power setting to 3000'. As far as I know, SNA is the only airport we fly into that has these "Quiet Power" settings, which are less than the standard Climb Thrust that we use everywhere else.

Granted, we only fly A300s into there, which I don't fly, but the instructions are in there for those guys.

Our terminology was "quiet thrust" which was a ridiculously low thrust setting

I was making a point to yet another "henning story"

John Wayne has/had a very unique departure procedure I have seen duplicated nowhere else. Serious, I flew out of there commercially every 2 weeks for 2 years and I don't think there was one flight that didn't have several people scream in terror. The departure path is directly over the most expensive neighborhood in the country where the cheapest house is around $2MM, not a ghetto, so it's okay to scare the crap out of everyone.

Not sure why passengers would "scream in terror" over such a procedure, with flaps out and V2+10 and such reduced thrust the deck angle is less than a Normal Departure or a NADP.

Yep, that was always an interesting departure, it was not unusual to have people screaming in fear when they did a Vx climb then chopped the engines and pushed over so everyone got light in their seat. I heard they quit that though.

The "chop the power" is another over dramatization

No where in the NADP does it specify to rapidly reduce power to quiet thrust. We always brought the power back gradually and lowered pitch smoothly and continued to 3000' AGL.

 

[Bill]

Try riding in an airliner departing KSNA (John Wayne/Orange County Airport, CA). That noise abatement departure feels very wrong to any pilot who doesn't know what's going on, and to many who do.

I've ridden out of there several times, I thought it was fun and always enjoyed the max perf takeoff.

 

[Sluggo63]

Our terminology was "quiet thrust" which was a ridiculously low thrust setting

Yeah, from my understanding, Quiet Power is much lower than Climb Thrust. We don't have such a thing in the MD-11, so I don't know how much lower it would be.

I was making a point to yet another "henning story"

Got it... I surely don't want to get in the way of the cross fire!

Not sure why passengers would "scream in terror" over such a procedure, with flaps out and V2+10 and such reduced thrust the deck angle is less than a Normal Departure or a NADP.

I don't know about "screaming in terror." I think the large reduction in noise/deceleration may make a few first time passengers nervous, though.

 

[ChemGuy]

I don't know about "screaming in terror." I think the large reduction in noise/deceleration may make a few first time passengers nervous, though.

You guys up front need to ride waaayyy in the back more often. Normal people. Bad choice of words. Many non-pilot people will freak out over some slight turbulence, bank angle, etc. I was on a flight from MEM to ATL last year. Several older ladies in a group. We hit some bumps and it was "oh lordy" & "help me Jesus". He must have listened as we landed ok.

I really wanted to scream bloody murder through some of it and really scare them.

And not everyone reduces power smoothly as they nose over on a NA departure. I have been on a few out of SNA that were chop and push. Same thing I do on Young Eagle flights if the kids along say they like roller coasters. 90% of the time they ask for seconds. None have puked yet.

 

[fiveoboy01]

Flew out of SNA on Monday in an A319. I think we were #5 with a Southwest flight departing at 7:00 sharp

I thought the departure was a little steeper than normal but none of this wild stuff I might have expected. The level-off was barely noticeable.

 

[Larry in TN]

I suspect that whenever possible the airlines used reduced takeoff (and sometimes reduced climb too) for fuel and maintenance savings, but some runways are too short for that.

We do use flex power whenever possible but it's not for any fuel savings. Flex power takeoffs actually burn more fuel. It is for engine wear. A flex power program will significantly extend the life of the engine's hot section.

Is it a Vx takeoff or is some extra airspeed built up before the climbout?

No published Vx or Vy in a transport jet. As has been mentioned, initial climb is at V2+10. V2 is "takeoff safety speed" and is the speed at which we would climb to the acceleration altitude in the event of an engine failure.

Once through acceleration altitude (usually 800' to 1000' and is when we start the clean up) we accelerate right up to 200 kts (if still in airspace with a 200kt limit) then right on up to 250 kts. Out of 10,000' we accelerate again to our profile climb speed which can be anywhere in the 270kts to 310kts range depending on aircraft, weight, conditions, and cost index.