A Very Odd Question, I'm Guessing

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Tom.F

Filing Flight Plan
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Tom.F
Hi all,

I'm a writer working on a piece of fiction, and I'd like to propose this question to you and see if you have solutions to a logic problem. The story takes place in the future where an incident has eliminated most of mankind (not nukes). One of the survivors is a pilot who's been calling on radio for years without contacting anyone. He has access to any possible radio equipment, and after years of no success, is willing to think outside the box. Again, he can get virtually anything that's available.

My problem is distance. I'd like him to be able to have one, fleeting conversation with someone who answers like either another pilot, or control tower. Just enough conversation so he knows where they are. The distance would be approx 400 miles. I think this rules out LOS, even though I could have the ground transmitter on a mountain.

Any ideas of what a desperate man might do to try to contact another human being in his plane. There would be no competing signals of any kind. Unlimited budget, but it has to fit into a single engine, 4 seat civilian aircraft.

Any thoughts are appreciated.
 
If I provide a solution to solve this problem, will I get credit for it in your book? :)
 
1. Would short wave do the trick? The people on the other end will be just as desperate to hear from him, and will have equal resources and plenty of trial and error time.
2. Credit? How about a hearty handshake?
3. Pigeons would be awesome, but I'm really hoping for that human voice. Now a parrot...!
 
Radio Interferometric Angle of Arrival - I bet you people thought I was making fun of Angle of Attack Indicators!! :D
 
Yeah, my google got angle of attack. Trying the longer description
 
Check with your local shortwave club. Those guys have all kinds of gadgets, tricks, handhelds, and antennae for chatting all over the world. They install their gear in cars, they could do it in an airplane, too.

The trick would be explaining why a pilot, with possibly two radios already in his airplane, would decide to carry shortwave gear. Maybe he's made contact from the ground, so he loads up something in his plane to go searching? But you want him to contact another pilot or control tower, so someone else would have to be trying the same thing.
 
Tom.F said:
Hi all,

I'm a writer working on a piece of fiction, and I'd like to propose this question to you and see if you have solutions to a logic problem. The story takes place in the future where an incident has eliminated most of mankind (not nukes). One of the survivors is a pilot who's been calling on radio for years without contacting anyone. He has access to any possible radio equipment, and after years of no success, is willing to think outside the box. Again, he can get virtually anything that's available.

My problem is distance. I'd like him to be able to have one, fleeting conversation with someone who answers like either another pilot, or control tower. Just enough conversation so he knows where they are. The distance would be approx 400 miles. I think this rules out LOS, even though I could have the ground transmitter on a mountain.

Any ideas of what a desperate man might do to try to contact another human being in his plane. There would be no competing signals of any kind. Unlimited budget, but it has to fit into a single engine, 4 seat civilian aircraft.

Any thoughts are appreciated.
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Why would it have to work in a small single? If he could do it from the ground, would that work as well? If it is necessary to the story to have him do it in an airplane, then you wind up having him (her) figure out how to do a trailing longwire, which is an engineering feat in and of itself. Give us more of what you are trying to achieve.

Thanks,

Jim
 
first he would need a tubro aircraft and go high second a com radio out of something like a 125 hawker 2 pieces but puting out 13 to 18 watts carrier .at fl20 with 15 watts that thing could go 400 miles easy. i hope some of the big iron guy's jump in as i am guesssing .however it is only a novel with some built in wiggle room.
 
Lots of airliners and ocean crossers also use HF radios.

I'd imagine a HF on the top of a mountian would carry some range
 
Jim,

He's tried ground without success. He used his radio for years, systematically trying to reach another pilot. He flies daily. Now, years later, he calls mostly just to entertain himself, a private joke. It should be stupid luck that he would make contact, and it's completely unexpected. This is a world with very few survivors, and many of them not worth talking to. It's not just the voice that's exciting, it's the voice of a like-minded person. A reasonable voice. A pilot's voice.
 
HF. Think ours could easily reach out 800 miles or more on a good day.
 
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Tom.F said:
Jim,

He's tried ground without success. He used his radio for years, systematically trying to reach another pilot. He flies daily. Now, years later, he calls mostly just to entertain himself, a private joke. It should be stupid luck that he would make contact, and it's completely unexpected. This is a world with very few survivors, and many of them not worth talking to. It's not just the voice that's exciting, it's the voice of a like-minded person. A reasonable voice. A pilot's voice.
Click to expand...
He could be using the standard VHF aircraft radios, while just encountering some unusual propagation...like tropospheric ducting. Tropospheric ducting is a great mode for me near the great lakes, where there are commonly temperature inversions due to weather or the lakes themselves....I often see up to 400 mile ranges on my VHF ham rigs (which are close in frequency to aircraft radios).
 
Also, tropospheric ducting causes very clear, strong, signals, but can be at times fleeting.
 
Velocity173 said:
HF. Think ours could reach out 800 miles on a good day.
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As a non-pilot, am I wrong to guess that HF means High Frequency? Is 800 miles at high altitude? What kind of distance could we expect with the altitude limitations of his airplane, AND considering he probably, in early years, flew with oxygen and climbed as high as he could. After years, he just gave up on it. The people on the other end could be transmitting from a mountain base of 14K feet.
 
Googling tropospheric ducting now!
 
Tom.F said:
As a non-pilot, am I wrong to guess that HF means High Frequency? Is 800 miles at high altitude? What kind of distance could we expect with the altitude limitations of his airplane, AND considering he probably, in early years, flew with oxygen and climbed as high as he could. After years, he just gave up on it. The people on the other end could be transmitting from a mountain base of 14K feet.
Click to expand...
(HF=high frequency, which is a bit of a misnomer, because it is somewhat low compared to most frequencies used today)
A plane really only gives you disadvantages while using HF frequencies, and no real advantages...the very large antennas required for HF tx/rx makes GOOD signals nearly impossible from the air, while easy on the ground. VHF, on the other hand, does not need big antennas, and gives you much better results from the air.
 
WE HAVE A WINNER!

Tropospheric ducting is exactly what I'm looking for. It combines so many things I need, and it can be random, and it would rely on the luck of both parties being on the correct frequency at the same time, something that would only happen if our pilot made the random calls so often that luck would enter into it. I really love this idea. I believe it will make the fiction plausible, and so fleeting and temporary.

Thanks so much. Thanks to all who replied.
 
One years supply of vowels and consonants?

If this fiction goes, the beer's on me. I'll come back here and link it.

Thanks again!
 
Tom.F said:
As a non-pilot, am I wrong to guess that HF means High Frequency? Is 800 miles at high altitude? What kind of distance could we expect with the altitude limitations of his airplane, AND considering he probably, in early years, flew with oxygen and climbed as high as he could. After years, he just gave up on it. The people on the other end could be transmitting from a mountain base of 14K feet.
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Pretty much what Tawood said above. If you're talking a small single engine piston aircraft, HF wouldn't be a normal setup unless ferrying the aircraft across the pond. HF radios use big antennas that you'll find on transcontinental airliners or in my case, military aircraft.

Range varies by several factors like power output, night vs day, season, weather etc. Since the wave is bouncing off the ionosphere, I don't think altitude plays a major role. I can tell you I've contacted our base in Germany sitting on the ground in Hungary though. I was never pleased with the reception on HF. It's also not used much today in the military with the introduction of sat comm.
 
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Tom.F said:
One years supply of vowels and consonants?

If this fiction goes, the beer's on me. I'll come back here and link it.

Thanks again!
Click to expand...
Hey, you get published, then I want a signed copy!
 
So, is his airplane flyable? If so, why doesn't he just take a flight and look for signs of life and make radio calls from altitude? If not flyable, why not? Does the engine run? If not, how is he charging his aircraft battery? If he is using a battery charger, who is operating/maintaining the power grid that allows him to have AC power to power his charger?
 
hotprops said:
first he would need a tubro aircraft and go high second a com radio out of something like a 125 hawker 2 pieces but puting out 13 to 18 watts carrier .at fl20 with 15 watts that thing could go 400 miles easy. i hope some of the big iron guy's jump in as i am guesssing .however it is only a novel with some built in wiggle room.
Click to expand...

You don't really have a clue, do you?
 
Get two cans of Campbell's Chicken Noodle Soup and a piece of string 400 miles long. See where I'm going with this?
 
Tom.F said:
WE HAVE A WINNER!

Tropospheric ducting is exactly what I'm looking for. It combines so many things I need, and it can be random, and it would rely on the luck of both parties being on the correct frequency at the same time, something that would only happen if our pilot made the random calls so often that luck would enter into it. I really love this idea. I believe it will make the fiction plausible, and so fleeting and temporary.

Thanks so much. Thanks to all who replied.
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Expect a hell of a lot of people writing your publisher saying that you have no idea what you are talking about.
But as a fellow author who HAS to be absolutely technically correct, I wish you the best of luck.

Jim
 
weirdjim said:
Expect a hell of a lot of people writing your publisher saying that you have no idea what you are talking about.
But as a fellow author who HAS to be absolutely technically correct, I wish you the best of luck.

Jim
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Yeah, but you write technical articles for aviation publications. This guy is writing cheap fantasy fiction. The threshold for accuracy is miles apart. His readers are far less likely to notice.
 
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