A new level of jerk-dom amongst pilots

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Maxmosbey said:
Jay really had my sympathy at the start of the thread, but then he started lashing out at anyone and everyone. He lost my support around page four.
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As usual with threads like this, people like you insinuate your way into the conversation and twist things until the victim is the bad guy.

At no point have I "lashed out at anyone" specifically in this thread -- but I'll make an exception with YOU. The world is now populated with slimy, morally relativistic people who can spin a situation their way, no matter what the facts. It's a truly sad state of affairs, and this singular "ability" can directly and indirectly be blamed for the hyper-charged political "debate" (AKA: "Shouting match") in America today.

The facts in this story are clear. I shared the story here to vent, and as a warning to others. The fact that you are able to defend the actions of these pilots says more about you than you are probably able to admit.
 
RMCN172RG said:
I don't like being lumped into a certain group either.

I can easily see my wife applying pressure to move to the beach, expecially at those low off season rates.

If they are like Myrtle Beach this time of year then they don't even cover the cost just help to offset it a little.

I've eaten the first night and switched hotels when they weren't up to the better halfs standards.

We don't know the whole story so let's play nice with each other. :fcross:
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What part of "the story" would you like to hear, Ray?

The part where they took my company's car and didn't return it, even though they stayed at a competitor's business?

Or the part where I chose to let them eat dinner in peace, rather than make a scene?

What part do YOU think is missing? The pilot's? If you're really THAT suspicious of my motives, call me and I'll give you the jerk's name and phone number. You can call him and ask him yourself.
 
I'm an A&P/IA. I don't work on airplanes for a living anymore though. I just like to be around airplanes. When I used to work on planes for a living, I would give them a bill, and they would always look at it with a frown and pay up grudgingly. So now people call me up and ask me to work on their planes. Sometimes I throw my tools in the truck and drive out to the airport and work on someone's plane, just to stay in the game and give me a reason to go out there. I don't know what to charge them. Sometimes I work pretty hard, most times I goof off. When it comes time to pay up, a lot of times I just try to figure up about how much time I "actually" spent working on their airplane, how much I have in parts, and leave them a note telling them to pay me what they think my time is worth. Almost every time, I get paid more than I thought that I deserve. I've even offer to give some of it back sometimes, and every one has just smiled and waved off the offer. The point is that I think most pilots and aircraft owners are decent and more than fair. I've been stiffed a time or two. No doubt about it. But what the heck, it isn't worth getting all upset about it. I'm just saying that you have to keep it in perspective.
 
NetNinja said:
This far along and you haven't bothered to check on the car which is "just 3 minutes away". You know this doesn't even begin to reconcile with the level of wrath Jay.

You may just find the car with a full tank of gas, a twenty dollar bill under the mat, and a thank you note.
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Never owned and operated a small business, have ya Ed?

Sometimes the fires are all around, and you just gotta pick the biggest one to fight. That car is waaaaaay down my list of worries.
 
Jay Honeck said:
As usual with threads like this, people like you insinuate your way into the conversation and twist things until the victim is the bad guy.

At no point have I "lashed out at anyone" specifically in this thread -- but I'll make an exception with YOU. The world is now populated with slimy, morally relativistic people who can spin a situation their way, no matter what the facts. It's a truly sad state of affairs, and this singular "ability" can directly and indirectly be blamed for the hyper-charged political "debate" (AKA: "Shouting match") in America today.

The facts in this story are clear. I shared the story here to vent, and as a warning to others. The fact that you are able to defend the actions of these pilots says more about you than you are probably able to admit.
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Wow Jay, great post. I never ever defended the guys that took your car and used it to find a better motel. In fact I said several times they were wrong. I simply said you are getting way too worked up about this. Calm down Jay.

By the way, what were you trying to warn us of?
 
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SCCutler said:
And, by the way folks, read carefully what you are responding to; several have ascribed harsh things to Jay which he did not say.
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Thank you.

Reading comprehension in the age of 28-character "tweets" is definitely on the decline.
 
Jay Honeck said:
What part of "the story" would you like to hear, Ray?

The part where they took my company's car and didn't return it, even though they stayed at a competitor's business?

Or the part where I chose to let them eat dinner in peace, rather than make a scene?

What part do YOU think is missing? The pilot's? If you're really THAT suspicious of my motives, call me and I'll give you the jerk's name and phone number. You can call him and ask him yourself.
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I said and you quoted before the above full response, with my highlight above.

ME said:
I can easily see my wife applying pressure to move to the beach, especially at those low off season rates.
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I don't see why wondering what prompted him to go to the beach hotel makes me suspicious of your motives?
 
Maxmosbey said:
Wow Jay, great post. I never ever defended the guys that took your car and used it to find a better motel. In fast I said several times they were wrong. I simply said you are getting way too worked up about this. Calm down Jay.
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Okay, fair enough. How's this for a revision?:

"The fact that you are able to condemn MY actions in this thread says more about you than you are probably able to admit."
 
Matthew said:
My wife and I stayed at Jay's place out on the island (and we'll be back someday). They really do go out of their way to help out the pilot community. But, he has a business to run and being taken advantage of by the very people he's trying to support sucks. Jay, I hope you've had the chance to blow off some steam, and can get back to enjoying your place.
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Yup, I feel much better now! :goofy:

Since you guys were here, we've finished our new "prototype room" -- the one that will set the standard for all to come. 6 weeks of work (and WAY too much money) has resulted in all-new EVERYTHING, from the plumbing up.

And now, we're working on the kitchenette room Spike and his family stayed in this past summer. Spike, you won't recognize it when we're done. The paint on the walls will all actually be the SAME COLOR! :wink2:
 
Jay Honeck said:
Okay, fair enough. How's this for a revision?:

"The fact that you are able to condemn MY actions in this thread says more about you than you are probably able to admit."
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Jay, I don't condemn your actions either. Well, maybe I did condemn something, but all in all I understand you are mad at this guy. I was just trying to be a friend and say move on Jay, let it go. But evidently you don't want that. Fine, I'm OK with that. Tell me though, what am I not able to admit. If you don't want to say it on line, you can send me a PM.:D
 
jsstevens said:
Having read the thread and read numerous posts of Jay's over the years (here and the old r.a.p groups) I think the crux of his displeasure is he views pilots as family (or our tribe as Gordon Baxter once attributed it) and so he feels betrayed - not by some stranger, but by a family member. That's the source of the wrath. Not $54. Not rudeness in general. Betrayal! By a family member!

And Jay, clearly I'm reaching inside your head a bit, so if I'm all wet, say so.

Clearly they were a bit rude about the whole thing and took advantage of a courtesy offered by a business. Have any of you ever gone to a local store, talked over a purchase decision with someone knowledgeable and then gone home and bought the item of the web for less? Similar deal. Sat in Panera using the free wireless and didn't buy anything? Not exactly the same, but still...

John
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No, John, you're right on the money.

I am USED to being ripped off by humanity. Everyone, from the tax man to the lowest beach-dweller, tries to get into my pocket. It's accepted, and a way of life, sad to say.

But pilots? Never. Pilots have ALWAYS been a cut above the rest of the world -- they are the wheat that has separated themselves from the chaff of humanity, by going through the not insignificant difficulties of learning to fly -- and then experiencing the joy and wonder of flight. How can anyone do these things, and not be changed by it -- for the better?

To be dope-slapped by PILOTS is what makes this so...wrong. To be then further dope-slapped by so-called pilots on this group is just dumping salt in the wound.

In my experience, people behave the way you EXPECT them to behave. I have always held pilots in the highest esteem, and have been rewarded with wonderful treatment in return. My life has been truly blessed by the company of pilots, and I belong to many pilot groups, both social and civic, that are built around this premise.

To come across evidence that perhaps my preconceived notions (and desires) regarding pilots is wrong bothers me. A lot.
 
rpadula said:
Ah yes, Internet Tough GuyTM responses.
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:rofl:

Yes, that was a pretty egregious example of a lack of courtesy on the part of the pilots and revenge can feel sweet, but if you are going to be in the service business these things will happen. If your immediate reaction is to have your blood pressure go through the roof maybe you need to reconsider what you do. (Not talking about Jay in particular but some people are obviously not a good fit for a job in the service business) I've seen some pretty eye-rolling things too but as long as they don't cross over into being unsafe you just need to laugh about it.
 
jesse said:
I know of a lot of young pilots - not sure I know a single one that is an ******* and won't bend over backwards for you.
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That's great to hear.

I personally don't know any "******* new pilots" either -- I was quoting a friend, and allowing as how it may be true that new pilots aren't cut from the same cloth as the "old-timers".

I'm hoping it's not, although God knows everything else in aviation has changed.
 
plus, twitter has a 140 character limit, not 28
 
So have I been a Dope slapper?

Why is this not legitimate and dope slapping?

me said:
I don't see why wondering what prompted him to go to the beach hotel makes me suspicious of your motives?
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Jay Honeck said:
That's great to hear.

I personally don't know any "******* new pilots" either -- I was quoting a friend, and allowing as how it may be true that new pilots aren't cut from the same cloth as the "old-timers".

I'm hoping it's not, although God knows everything else in aviation has changed.
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Actually I thought about it some more. I know one. The rest are all good.
 
Jay,

Having read your posts about both your properties over the years, if I ever find myself in your area, I would love to stay with you.

As a charter pilot, your comments in your opening post, (two guys, two single rooms, not sure if the trip is a go or not) made me think that these guys are charter pilots. I am not condoning their behavior and I certainly would have handled this differently, but let me offer a different perspective.

Two pilots show up at your airport needing a place to stay. Pilot one calls you up because he has heard about you on the internet and takes your car with full intention of staying at your hotel. It is their first time there, and while they are looking around, pilot two says "we don't get the opportunity often, so lets stay on the beach" No slight towards your place, just a change of heart. But keep in mind these are charter guys who might have been on duty for several hours without a chance to eat, so they figure as long as we already have the car, let's grab quick bite before we drop it off back at the airport with a full tank or a twenty and a thank you note. Hopefully no harm done. While at the restaurant, you call wanting your car back, rightfully so. Maybe you don't like the tone of his voice, maybe he doesn't like yours, things escalate till he tells you you'll get your car back when he feels like it.

So my long, drawn out point is that I would hope that no pilot, or person for that matter would set out with the intent of screwing you over, however, after an unfortunate sequence of events, I can see how you feel that way.

Or maybe they are just scum.:wink2:
 
And before anyone says it, I was NOT the pilot involved. I just know what a pain in the butt it is to balance rooms, food and transportation while trying to keep the other crew member happy.
 
Dave Theisen said:
Jay,

Having read your posts about both your properties over the years, if I ever find myself in your area, I would love to stay with you.

As a charter pilot, your comments in your opening post, (two guys, two single rooms, not sure if the trip is a go or not) made me think that these guys are charter pilots. I am not condoning their behavior and I certainly would have handled this differently, but let me offer a different perspective.

Two pilots show up at your airport needing a place to stay. Pilot one calls you up because he has heard about you on the internet and takes your car with full intention of staying at your hotel. It is their first time there, and while they are looking around, pilot two says "we don't get the opportunity often, so lets stay on the beach" No slight towards your place, just a change of heart. But keep in mind these are charter guys who might have been on duty for several hours without a chance to eat, so they figure as long as we already have the car, let's grab quick bite before we drop it off back at the airport with a full tank or a twenty and a thank you note. Hopefully no harm done. While at the restaurant, you call wanting your car back, rightfully so. Maybe you don't like the tone of his voice, maybe he doesn't like yours, things escalate till he tells you you'll get your car back when he feels like it.

So my long, drawn out point is that I would hope that no pilot, or person for that matter would set out with the intent of screwing you over, however, after an unfortunate sequence of events, I can see how you feel that way.

Or maybe they are just scum.:wink2:
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A quite plausible explanation, with a few caveats:

1. I never talked to the guys; Mary did.
2. They never said they'd return it when they felt like it, but that's the way it worked out.
3. In Iowa City we get charter pilots all the time, thanks to three major medical centers, a university, Procter & Gamble, etc. Here? Being a tourist-only destination, I can count them on one hand in 6 months.

Also, to have two pilots implies a pretty big aircraft -- there weren't/aren't any bizjet/King Air-type planes on the ramp.

I don't know their motives, nor do I care. You know us nasty old conservatives -- we're only interested in the crime (& punishment) -- not the reasons... :wink2:
 
Dave Theisen said:
And before anyone says it, I was NOT the pilot involved. I just know what a pain in the butt it is to balance rooms, food and transportation while trying to keep the other crew member happy.
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Sure, Dave. Sure. :wink2:

Good idea to clarify yourself. The way some guys skim these posts, two pages from now they'll have you pegged as the guy who "stole Jay's car"...
:cheerswine:
 
Jay Honeck said:
A
2. They never said they'd return it when they felt like it, but that's the way it worked out.
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So does that mean the car was finally returned to the airport? If so, any idea when it was returned and how much use it got?
 
Jay Honeck said:
Apparently you have a problem with reading comprehension? That was a QUOTE about "young pilots nowadays" from another pilot -- not my words.

I'm hoping it's wrong.
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Apparently you have a problem standing by your posts. If you didn't believe it, why did you post it?
 
I don't know why you didn't dump his bags and take the car. Of course, he knows where you live. Getting the police involved would mean no blowback on you, though.
 
I'm bored with this game, now.
 
jesse said:
Actually I thought about it some more. I know one. The rest are all good.
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Hey no need to point me out Jesse! :wink2:

Jay Honeck said:
As usual with threads like this, people like you insinuate your way into the conversation and twist things until the victim is the bad guy.

At no point have I "lashed out at anyone" specifically in this thread -- but I'll make an exception with YOU.
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Naww you NEVER lashed out at anyone:

Jay Honeck said:
Apparently you have a problem with reading comprehension?
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Jay Honeck said:
Honestly, who set up these group vocabulary "rules"? They are asinine.

(Whoops...can I type that here?) :tongue:
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Jay Honeck said:
Never owned and operated a small business, have ya Ed?
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Jay Honeck said:
WTF? Are you for real?

Wow. I don't know what reality you occupy, but it's in a different dimension from this world.
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(Now awaits the next lash out...)
 
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