A "Duh" Win-Win Idea for FBO's and Renters

[VWGhiaBob]

One of the things we all hate about most FBO's is minimums. That is, if we want a plane all day or overnight, we are often held to minimums that make the trip too costly.

Here's an idea to get around minimums. I have approached 3 FBO's and they are all open to it...

It's a bit like selling an empty seat on an airline...better to get some money than none for the airplane and the owner if it's on lease back...

The idea: Consider waiving minimums if the plane is not booked and seems like it's not going to get booked.

For example, this coming weekend, I need a plane from Friday pm through Sunday am, but don't want to incur a 6 hour minimum. An FBO has agreed that if the plane is not booked by Friday, I can have it for that time period with no minimum.

The wins: I get a plane for an extended period, and the FBO / Owner get some money rather than none or only a quick "pop-up" flight.

No FBO I've approached has turned down a reasonable offer like this. For those of us checked out at multiple FBO's in metro areas, the odds of this working get even better.

Just wanted to share this idea which has worked well for me, and I feel it benefits the FBO and owner as well. Would love to see this more formally adopted on a wider basis.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Most every FBO I've dealt with that has a written policy for daily minimums has waived them in situations such as you describe. Others apply it to some aircraft in the fleet and not to others.

Part of it is certainly the length of the daily minimum and the time I've actually flown but in about 20 years of renting aircraft (I was part owner of an airplane for a while), I have paid a daily minimum once.

 

[SixPapaCharlie]

I would love something like this.
I have to rent a plane next month and I had to call around probably 10 different airports before finding one locally w/o a daily minimum charge.

I have never rented before and I had no idea how much it costs. crazy.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Keep in mind that daily minimums are not a rule but a preference. An FBO with a small number of aircraft and a large amount of training or local flying is likely to have and enforce substantial daily minimums. One with plenty of aircraft but few renters may not even have daily minimums at all.

There is a wide variety between those two points. And reasons why an FBO might waive them for a specific trip. You don't know unless you ask.

 

[dukeblue219]

Here's an idea to get around minimums. I have approached 3 FBO's and they are all open to it...

It's a bit like selling an empty seat on an airline...better to get some money than none for the airplane and the owner if it's on lease back...

The idea: Consider waiving minimums if the plane is not booked and seems like it's not going to get booked.

I've actually never rented from a place that didn't make it clear that you should contact them if minimums are an issue. They didn't want to ever have to charge for them. It was never an issue when I was renting -- I just rented the planes that rarely flew (like the DA40 at a cessna pilot center, or the non-G1000 172S's at another school) and they would happily waive the minimums as long as I was flying it a decent amount and brought it back relatively soon. A two week trip was out of the question, but a weekend home was fine.

 

[jtheune]

The other option is to ask if you can rent the plane and agree to fly off the minimum hours over time. I did that one year that I wanted to take an arrow to Osh for a week. I ended up with 14 extra hours that I had to fly off before the end of the year for accounting purposes.

 

[frfly172]

Rent the more expensive aircraft,or the one no one likes. Better chance of making a deal.

 

[MAKG1]

Rent the more expensive aircraft,or the one no one likes. Better chance of making a deal.

Be careful. Sometimes "no one likes" an aircraft because it's butt ugly. BFD. Sometimes, it's because it's a TAA. Good. Sometimes it's because it breaks all the time or the owner defers repairs that he shouldn't. That's another ball of wax.

 

[gkainz]

sub-let the airplane when you get to your destination and split the rental income with the FBO ... or not ...

did I just say that?

 

[VWGhiaBob]

The other option is to ask if you can rent the plane and agree to fly off the minimum hours over time. I did that one year that I wanted to take an arrow to Osh for a week. I ended up with 14 extra hours that I had to fly off before the end of the year for accounting purposes.

John T...great idea! Hadn't thought about that one. Coupled with the idea in this post, greatly increases chances of getting a plane for a trip!

 

[Gucci Pilot]

I would usually take the misfit and they have no problem with minimums. The Cessna 150 taildragger that never flew or the Arrow when there were no commercial students.

 

[flyingron]

Yep, the FBO I used to use offered that if I wanted to fly a couple of their planes that never moved, I'd be happy because they are always available and they never rent. On a line with mostly 172's and the like an odd Musketeer was an interesting change of pace. Don't know why people didn't fly it.

 

[Henning]

Yeah, I have found that many times you can negotiate away the minimum on a low use airplane. The good thing is the low use ones are typically the traveling planes that work out well time in flight and/or load wise. The hourly increase is offset by the increase in speed to a greater or lesser extent depending, and as you said, at least the plane gets 3 hrs billing instead of 0 since no one is going to spend for the 6 minimum on less than 6 hrs of flying.

 

[LDJones]

Keep in mind that daily minimums are not a rule but a preference. An FBO with a small number of aircraft and a large amount of training or local flying is likely to have and enforce substantial daily minimums. One with plenty of aircraft but few renters may not even have daily minimums at all.

There is a wide variety between those two points. And reasons why an FBO might waive them for a specific trip. You don't know unless you ask.

In 35 years of flying with many stretches of not-owning (hence renting), I've never had the daily minimum charged. It's always existed, but seldom if ever charged. Most extended trips were below the daily minimum....but had enough overall hours to make them happy.

I think it exists to give them an out if someone wants to fly three hours away, sit for a week, then fly back.

 

[jonnyjetprop]

All great points and I have had the same experiences. Often the more expensive, complex aircraft are the easiest to deal on.

One thing I would add is if the FBO is still hard up on charging a daily minimum and you still really want to rent that plane, try to work out a dry rate for the unused time. An example is if the daily minimum requires the FBO to charge 12 hours and you only flew 4, try to see if they will charge you the normal rate for the 4 hours actually flown and a lower rate for the 8 hours where you didn't operate the plane. Fuel can make up to half the rental cost and you didn't burn any fuel for those 8 hrs.

 

[MAKG1]

All great points and I have had the same experiences. Often the more expensive, complex aircraft are the easiest to deal on.

One thing I would add is if the FBO is still hard up on charging a daily minimum and you still really want to rent that plane, try to work out a dry rate for the unused time. An example is if the daily minimum requires the FBO to charge 12 hours and you only flew 4, try to see if they will charge you the normal rate for the 4 hours actually flown and a lower rate for the 8 hours where you didn't operate the plane. Fuel can make up to half the rental cost and you didn't burn any fuel for those 8 hrs.

You also didn't burn any tach time, so no maintenance overhead.

Honestly, if you need to go that far, the FBO is run by jerks and you might consider renting from someone else.

 

[Henning]

All great points and I have had the same experiences. Often the more expensive, complex aircraft are the easiest to deal on.

One thing I would add is if the FBO is still hard up on charging a daily minimum and you still really want to rent that plane, try to work out a dry rate for the unused time. An example is if the daily minimum requires the FBO to charge 12 hours and you only flew 4, try to see if they will charge you the normal rate for the 4 hours actually flown and a lower rate for the 8 hours where you didn't operate the plane. Fuel can make up to half the rental cost and you didn't burn any fuel for those 8 hrs.

I always try to work a dry rate regardless.