A different kind of checklist

flyingcheesehead

flyingcheesehead

Touchdown! Greaser!
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This one's not for an airplane, it's for a checkride. :yes:

I'm flying an Arrow IV with the god-awful gear auto-extender system and it was messing me up on some things, plus I kept forgetting the exact airspeeds, power settings, etc. for all of the various maneuvers.

So, I made a checklist for the commercial maneuvers as a reminder to make sure I'm getting into the right configuration before I start the maneuver, plus it's a "cliffs notes" for the PTS tolerances.

I flight-tested it yesterday and ended up having to add "Auto-extend - Disable" to Lazy Eights, Power-on Stalls, and Steep Spirals. Finicky system I tell ya! In fact, looking at it now the only maneuver where you DON'T have to disable the auto-extend is steep turns! :mad: No wonder most planes have had it removed.

Anyway, I remember doing something like this for my private too (basically just quickie-notes on the PTS tolerances) and figured this could be a starting point for anyone. So, here ya go.

Again, questions/comments/suggestions are most welcome! Haven't shown this one to a CFI yet.
 

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Wha-? The only time I had to disable the auto extend on the Arrow, was, um, never.

I was also running different MP/RPM combinations.
 
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I used to know a guy who forgot to disable it before doing a loop...gear extended UP, and the maneuver didn't turn out quite so goodly ;)

Fly safe!

David
 
Good checklist, Kent. One possible addition is: "Clearing Turns". I nearly failed my Commercial checkride because of that.
 
EdFred said:
Wha-? The only time I had to disable the auto extend on the Arrow, was, um, never.

I was also running different MP/RPM combinations.
Click to expand...

On my model, you pull up the lever and slide the locking pin through.
 
EdFred said:
Wha-? The only time I had to disable the auto extend on the Arrow, was, um, never.
Click to expand...

Didja ever do a Chandelle? If the Arrow you were flying had the auto-extender and it didn't come out on a Chandelle, it was broken.

Supposedly, it'll extend at idle power up to 95 knots and it'll extend at any power setting below... 80? Something like that. Unfortunately, this particular one will extend at idle at about 115 KIAS, and at 20"MP or so which I'm using for a lot of maneuvers it'll extend below 90-95. Really freakin' annoying. It'll extend at any speed below 16" MP too, which makes flying the pattern interesting - You have to extend the gear to not climb.

I wonder how hard it is to have the system yanked... The old Arrow there didn't have it.

I just don't think it'd be good form to fly an entire checkride with it off. :no:
 
tonycondon said:
little early Kent?
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No. It will extend at any power setting below 80 knots. No, 80 knots isn't a power setting, but if your speed is below 80 knots it'll extend at any power setting.

Speaking of power settings, I'm about to experience engine failure. G'night. :hairraise:
 
I thought I recall it only extended when the MP was below a certain level 15" maybe, and below a certain airspeed, 100 comes to mind. Not below a certain MP or a certain airspeed. In a Chandelle you better not be at less than 15" of manifold pressure.

Then again it was a rental.
 
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I like the "Cliff Notes" concept - reminder and preparation. I came across a similar one online and use it as an instructor guide when I teach for the commercial.

But I'm not too sure I'd pull it out at a checkride and use it as an in-flight checklist.
 
Ron Levy said:
A loop in an Arrow?:eek:
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The only thing to prevent it is the reg that says you have to abide by the limitations in the AFM...and, unfortunately, I think we ALL know people who are willing to disregard that particular regulation when it suits their fancy.

Fly safe! (and don't disregard regulations)

David
 
midlifeflyer said:
I like the "Cliff Notes" concept - reminder and preparation. I came across a similar one online and use it as an instructor guide when I teach for the commercial.

But I'm not too sure I'd pull it out at a checkride and use it as an in-flight checklist.
Click to expand...

Why not? The PTS places a lot of emphasis on the use of checklists...

I only get to fly these once a week, and it'd be pretty silly to screw up a checkride by flying a maneuver with a misconfigured aircraft.
 
EdFred said:
I thought I recall it only extended when the MP was below a certain level 15" maybe, and below a certain airspeed, 100 comes to mind. Not below a certain MP or a certain airspeed. In a Chandelle you better not be at less than 15" of manifold pressure.

Then again it was a rental.
Click to expand...

From the POH:

"Gear extension is designed to occur, even if the selector is in the up position, at airspeeds below approximately 95 KIAS with power off. The extension speeds will vary from approximately 75 KIAS to approximately 95 KIAS depending on power settings and altitude. The device also prevents the gear from retracting at airspeeds below approximately 75 KIAS with full power..."

The system is really pretty darn simple, there's a second pitot sticking out the left-hand side of the plane, so there's really no complicated sensing of power and airspeed, just how much air is going into that pitot. Level in the pattern, it seems to happen just about 15-16" MAP, and a lot of the maneuvers set it off too.

On the chandelles, obviously forward airspeed will be reduced but there will be a fairly high power setting. I'm guessing that there may be enough twisting of the propwash that the left wing might blank the gear extender pitot. Who knows. This particular airplane likes to extend the gear at slightly higher airspeeds and power settings than it's really supposed to anyway. Piece o' junk. :vomit:
 
or perhaps the microswitch on the throttle is malfunctioning, making the gear extender think that it is always at idle...

stick your hand out the left window in flight and ask yourself if the wing is blanking out anything.
 
EdFred said:
I thought I recall it only extended when the MP was below a certain level 15" maybe, and below a certain airspeed, 100 comes to mind. Not below a certain MP or a certain airspeed. In a Chandelle you better not be at less than 15" of manifold pressure.

Then again it was a rental.
Click to expand...

I was climbing out of Alamosa CO with one on a really hot day, barely climbing and the gear dropped.... Get rid of the system, most people have as most of them don't work as they should and can put you in a bind. One of my checklist items on an Arrow is to lock out the auto extend.
 
tonycondon said:
or perhaps the microswitch on the throttle is malfunctioning, making the gear extender think that it is always at idle...
Click to expand...

Microswitch? I don't think there is one...

stick your hand out the left window in flight and ask yourself if the wing is blanking out anything.
Click to expand...

The window is in front of the wing, so that'd be a useless demo. Now if there was a window way in back by where the auto-extend pitot is, and I had someone to stick their hand out there while I was in slow flight way behind the power curve (like the end of a Chandelle)...

Maybe I'll just have to tape some yarn back there, eh? ;)
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Why not? The PTS places a lot of emphasis on the use of checklists...

I only get to fly these once a week, and it'd be pretty silly to screw up a checkride by flying a maneuver with a misconfigured aircraft.
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Like the oral, there are things you can look up and things that your should know. To me anyway, pulling out a checklist for some of the maneuvers could be viewed as,

"Hmmm. I'm in a canyon and the wind is blowing me in the wrong direction. I'd better make a steep turn to the left. right now!

"But wait! I'd better pull out that checkkist firs....."

Besides, there are only, like 2 or 3 configurations altogether anyway, aren't there?
 
well how does the auto extender know when the throttle is pulled back then Kent? and yes it sounds like a yarn is in order.
 
tonycondon said:
well how does the auto extender know when the throttle is pulled back then Kent?
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Read my post again. :p The second pitot that's used for the auto-extend is mounted on the left side of the fuselage, right in the prop wash. When you lower power, there's less prop wash and if the airspeed is low enough, down goes the gear. Likewise, if you're at idle but in a dive, it should stay up (rather than rip itself off by auto-extending above Vle).

Jeez, now I'm gonna have to play with it some more...
 
hmmmmmmm ok i finally realized why you were babbling about propwash. i still seem to remember something about a microswitch on the throttle though. although keep in mind ive got like nil Arrow time. the flight school i went to had one that most people used so i did learn a little about it.
 
There is a microswitch in the throttle. We would lock up the auto extend, but still have to deal with the buzzing of the alarm unless we pushed the prop ever so slightly forward.
 
yea thats what i thought Ed. looked up some stuff, the buzzer goes off anytime the throttles back and gear is up, or if the auto extender goes off. my bet is that microswitch is how the autoextender knows that the throttle is back. too many variables trying to measure propwash, imo
 
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