A-4 vs F-18

Late to the game. I've seen both teams in everything since the Phantom days. Each airplane has characteristics that make it interesting, and they tailor the routines to each type. I liked the A-4's but I don't think they'd be very impressive today, especially when the tac demo gang is flying current stuff. Speaking of which, the demo teams do a great show for timing and precision, but I'd rather watch the single-ship tac demo that better shows the capabilities of the airplane(s).

Nauga,
who doesn't have five friends with big enough watches
 
The link is compromised and gives security warnings.

You’re not quite understanding how stick forces and g-suits work. But never-mind.
 
I was a Navy brat. My father was stationed at NAS Lemoore in the mid 80's with VA-303, when they transitioned from A-7s to F/A-18s (and thus became VFA-303). I was so excited about my dad's new airplanes, and so even though I grew up with the Blue Angels flying A-4s, I was beyond thrilled when they switched to the 18s. Incidentally, this was near the same time that Top Gun came out, and when I decided that I would fly planes when I grew up. 30 years later (I'm 40 now), I'm finally making that dream come true. Even if it's not in the cockpit of an F/A-18 :)
 
Sierra Echo said:
I was a Navy brat. My father was stationed at NAS Lemoore in the mid 80's with VA-303, when they transitioned from A-7s to F/A-18s (and thus became VFA-303). I was so excited about my dad's new airplanes, and so even though I grew up with the Blue Angels flying A-4s, I was beyond thrilled when they switched to the 18s. Incidentally, this was near the same time that Top Gun came out, and when I decided that I would fly planes when I grew up. 30 years later (I'm 40 now), I'm finally making that dream come true. Even if it's not in the cockpit of an F/A-18 :)
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Howdy neighbor. I lived in Lemoore 81-87
 
luvflyin said:
Howdy neighbor. I lived in Lemoore 81-87
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HA! We absolutely were neighbors! I was going to Neutra Elementary at the time. '84 - '87.

Was at Pt. Mugu before, NAS New Orleans after.
 
Cooter said:
The link is compromised and gives security warnings.

You’re not quite understanding how stick forces and g-suits work. But never-mind.
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Start at 13+00. The finalists for the team have to pass a weight lifting test for selection. Basically hold off 35 lbs with your right arm for 30 minutes.

 
Velocity173 said:
Start at 13+00. The finalists for the team have to pass a weight lifting test for selection. Basically hold off 35 lbs with your right arm for 30 minutes.
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He commented that it takes 40lbs to move the stick in the Hornet, which it doesn't. I also tend to doubt that they trim 40lbs of pressure onto the stick. It may reach that under G-loads, but I think that is exaggerated. The G-suit also doesn't jump, it inflates in relation to the G on the aircraft. It could interfere with precision, but it isn't going to send the aircraft out of control into another aircraft. That could easily be fixed by not inflating the right thigh.

The point is that they have at least one dead pilot because of it.
 
Cooter said:
He commented that it takes 40lbs to move the stick in the Hornet, which it doesn't. I also tend to doubt that they trim 40lbs of pressure onto the stick. It may reach that under G-loads, but I think that is exaggerated. The G-suit also doesn't jump, it inflates in relation to the G on the aircraft. It could interfere with precision, but it isn't going to send the aircraft out of control into another aircraft. That could easily be fixed by not inflating the right thigh.

The point is that they have at least one dead pilot because of it.
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He's not talking about the nose being electrically trimmed forward. The 35-40 lbs is from a physical spring attached to the stick. Nauga could tell you all about how they came up with this since it was tested at PAX River in 86. A very tragic accident resulted from this.

No argument about the safety issue of not having a G suit. You know way more about that than me. I think they're just choosing the lesser of two evils by not going with one.
 
Velocity173 said:
He's not talking about the nose being electrically trimmed forward. The 35-40 lbs is from a physical spring attached to the stick. Nauga could tell you all about how they came up with this since it was tested at PAX River in 86. A very tragic accident resulted from this.

No argument about the safety issue of not having a G suit. You know way more about that than me. I think they're just choosing the lesser of two evils by not going with one.
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All the jets I've flown have a spring attached to the stick. Actually not all, but most. It provides an artificial feel that simulates real aerodynamic forces. If that is what you're talking about, then it is weighted at the bottom and increases pressure under G-loads. It isn't a constant force. If it's something specific to the Blue's jets, I haven't heard about it, but that's possible.
I've flown the F-18 sims, I would have remembered having to man-handle a 40lb weight around.;) I do remember the Tomcat listing a required 65lbs of force to manipulate the stick. That may or not have been accurate, but if so, it would only have been at max G loads.
 
Cooter said:
I've flown the F-18 sims, I would have remembered having to man-handle a 40lb weight around.;)
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Have you flown a Hornet sim with the downspring mod the Blue Angels Hornets have? There is a detachable spring assembly to preload the stick so that you have to hold aft *force* (not position) to maintain neutral stick. I would not have guessed it's 40 lb at neutral (~1g) but that number is tossed around. Of course that force increases as the stick is deflected.

Cooter said:
If it's something specific to the Blue's jets, I haven't heard about it, but that's possible.
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It is.

Velocity173 said:
Nauga could tell you all about how they came up with this since it was tested at PAX River in 86. A very tragic accident resulted from this.
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The accident had nothing to do with the downspring.

Nauga,
reminiscing
 
IMG_3090.JPG

An RC Blue Angel A-4 that I donated to a local restaurant. In the process of building another one.
 
Hornets! Watch the first and last takeoffs!

 
FWIW, the blues do fly in the configuration naugs describes. My bud (previously mentioned), did have to do the 35 lb stick hold 30 min test during his finalist interview for that reason. I don't pretend to know the ins and outs of it (nor do I intend to argue the merits of it, or a better way of doing things), and I agree cooter, no fleet F/A-18 has 40 lbs artificial stick force, or at least it has never felt like it.
 
AKBill said:
I overhauled the engine in the A-4's the Blue Angles flew in the early 80's, it had 4 fuel nozzles per burner can vs 1 fuel nozzle per can the fleet A-4's flew. Watched them doing their practice maneuvers as I ate lunch sitting by the hanger doors in Pensacola. All that for $350/mo...:)

I must say I did like the A-4 show then again I like any airshow..
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Why the extra nozzles?
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Why the extra nozzles?
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The Pratt & Whitney JP-52-408 was a variant of the J-52. The 408 is what the Blue Angles used flying the A-4 Skyhawk. It had 8 burner cans and 4 fuel nozzles per can, to increase thrust by putting more fuel into the combustion chamber. I think it produced about 12,000lbs of thrust.
 
Blues 5 and 6 arriving at KBFI on 31 July 2018 after a show. A friend's husband works for Boeing and they couldn't use their tickets for a Boeing party at the Museum of Flight, so she gave them to us. Great show.DSC05599.JPG
 
Enough Blue Angels! Thunderbird time!

4-f-105.jpg


F-105
 
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