9yo pilot

[Lance F]

You look like a couple of very happy kids. Which one are you, the picture looks old, very old.

John

I'm the CFIG with my student in my lap. About 27 years ago I bet. We used black and white film to record turning at waypoints in glider competition way back then. I had someone use that camera for the picture.
And how about that X body Skylark.

 

[Anthony]

I worked as a pin boy in a bowling alley when I was eleven years old, over 100 years ago........

There, fixed it for ya John.

Oh look, I'm still here, amazing.


John

Why yes, it is amazing.

 

[John Baker]

Thanks Anthony, I truly appreciate the help, although, as I recall it, it was 57 years ago. Then I am getting on in years, so I could be wrong, they say memory is one of the first things to go. It could have been 100 years ago, I guess.

John

 

[Anthony]

Don't worry John, I am an anti Nanny stater who abhores government over stepping its bounds. In these situations, the problem is usually the parent's judgment or lack thereof.

I hung from scaffolding, and out of windows to paint when I was a kid. Most times I did it because I was told to, not because I got paid. I left the house at 8 or 9 AM and came back for dinner. As long as I was home for dinner, it was no bid deal pretty much were I went or what I did unless it was illegal or disrespectful to others. We had no play dates or much parental supervision. We sorted out our own rules, teams, games and penalties. We rarely stayd inside unless the weather was really bad. This was probably starting around 7 or 8 years old.

Sound familiar? I am am a few years less than 100.

 

[John Baker]

Remember pulling a carrot out of the ground, wiping it on your jeans and eating it?

We used to use roofers hatches as tomahawks, the telephone pole behind my house was nothing but splinters from tomahawk throwing practice.

Trash can lids as shields for rock fights in the gravel alleys.

Taking off into the woods for the whole day with your buddies exploring and looking out for great wild beasts.

Neighborhood moms or dads yelling for their kids to get home for dinner.

Having a few sips of beer with your dad & his buddies.

Playing hockey on steel wheeled clamp on roller skates in the street in the summer.

Going to the emergency room for stitches after playing hockey on steel wheeled clamp on roller skates in the street in the summer. My dad thought that was funny, he said your weren't playing hockey if you didn't need stitches after the game. That was when a few stitches cost just a few dollars instead of the thousand or so they charge now.

How about that Daisy Red Rider BB rifle, every ten year old had one. I think the glass companies subsidized them.

Calves sucking on your hand at a farm we visited in the summer.

Riding your sleigh down "dead mans hill" (15th Ave.) in the winter. Winter usually meant a few bumps and bruises as well.

Great years to be a kid.

John

 

[Trapper John]

Where does stuff like polio fit into that list?

 

[n20junkie]

I dont see how a 9yr old can make a decision that involves risk. Most 20 year olds cant.

Yes kids drive machines, i did, but my parents made decisions.

I wasn't given the biggest 4 wheeler made, kids don't drive top fuel dragsters.

Mabe he can fly but decision making skills is what seperates kids from adults. Hence the age of consent.

A kid cant consent to have sex, for a good dam reason, but he can decide if the weather, aircraft, rest requirements, outside pressure and so on are all good for a safe flight.

I don't think so.

 

[gismo]

I dont see how a 9yr old can make a decision that involves risk. Most 20 year olds cant.

Yes kids drive machines, i did, but my parents made decisions.

I wasn't given the biggest 4 wheeler made, kids don't drive top fuel dragsters.

Mabe he can fly but decision making skills is what seperates kids from adults. Hence the age of consent.

A kid cant consent to have sex, for a good dam reason, but he can decide if the weather, aircraft, rest requirements, outside pressure and so on are all good for a safe flight..

Given that the kid's parents are quite likely to supervise the entire flight from a nearby location with direct visibility of the kid's balloon, what decision making skills do you think will be needed?

 

[Jim Logajan]

As I read the Child Pilot Safety Act, despite the fact that this is an ultralight vehicle, it is still a violation of that Act, which does not limit its applicability to exclude ultralight vehicles. Note that the FAA definition of "aircraft" is "a device that is used or intended to be used for flight in the air," which this vehicle is. Of course, there is little under that law which could be done, since the only penalty therein is revocation of the pilot certificate of the PIC permitting the child to manipulate the controls for the purpose of setting a record, and the PIC in this case doesn't have a pilot certificate to revoke, but it still appears to me to violate the Act.

A bunch of things:

The FAA was directed by the Child Safety Act to produce a report not later than 6 months after its enactment in 1996. One reference I found stated that as of 1999 the FAA had still not published anything. Hmmm.

Additionally the whole point of Part 103 is to carve out an exception to the FAA glossary definition for aircraft. You overlooked the very first qualifying sentence of Part 1, Sec. 1.1 General Definitions: "As used in Subchapters A through K of this chapter, unless the context requires otherwise:"

On one hand, the Child Safety Act is a statute outside those subchapters, and doesn't refer to anyone's definition of "aircraft" though it does refer to the FAA regulatory definition of pilot in command.

Furthermore, the Child Safety Act refers to the need for a Private Pilot certificate (and appropriate medical,) which reinforces its intended scope as falling within Part 91, not Part 103 where such certificates (and indeed the word "aircraft") do not exist. And the Act's sanctions - well, if taking away non-existing certificates isn't a dead give-away about its intended scope, I don't know what is. So would the Act apply to ultralight vehicles? "Context requires otherwise."

I find the act poorly written, since it also probably meant to say "holds at least a private pilots certificate...." Otherwise a literal read seems to suggest that a PIC can't allow commercial and ATP certificate holders to take the controls!?

In addition, I suspect that this might be considered to violate state child endangerment laws.

All in all, I think it's a dumb stunt which suggests the parent's haven't the judgement they should in order to hold FAA pilot certificates. When the kid's 14, he can solo legally.

There are no age limits mentioned in Part 103, so the comment about legal solo at 14 is a bit baffling.

I see nothing particularly dumb about the attempt. You need to be specific in your objections. Other than your odd conflation of Part 91 age requirements with those of Part 103, why would 14 years old be okay and 9 years old not? Do you know that he does not know how to select landing sites? Does he have problems reading air currents? How are is his aeronautical decision abilities, and how did you determine them? Is there something you know specifically that makes him unprepared?

The rationale you've provided for your judgment on the parent's judgment appears to be unfounded in facts, and is heavy on irrational emotion.

 

[Palmpilot]

edit: Also, the Child Pilot Safety Act is just another kneejerk reaction to an accident. "Think of the children!"

I thought the AOPA did a remarkable job of heading off much worse knee-jerk proposals, such as prohibiting children from receiving instruction, etc. The law we ended up with is pretty harmless, IMO.

 

[John Baker]

Where does stuff like polio fit into that list?

Your right, polio was there. My brothers best friend came down with it. I remember visiting him in his iron lung, just flat out horrible.

But then we did not have to worry about drive by shootings either. We fought with our fists, not knives, guns, & boots. When our opponent was down, we waited for him to collect himself and either quit or continue on.

We did not kick him when he was down, it was considered an act of cowardice. Our friends did not help, we handled it on our own, unless it was more than one on one.

Even with polio, and all our freedom from adults, and BB guns, I think it was a much safer time to grow up.

I didn't know one kid who had a Uzi.

Now days, the kids are either smothered with attention or completely ignored, depending on which side of the tracks they live. The side that have balloons and airplanes is not the side that ignores their children.

John

 

[Trapper John]

Now days, the kids are either smothered with attention or completely ignored, depending on which side of the tracks they live.

That may be what you hear about on the news, but it doesn't represent reality.

 

[azure]

We did not kick him when he was down, it was considered an act of cowardice. Our friends did not help, we handled it on our own, unless it was more than one on one.

You may not have done things like that, but there were plenty of bully boys in my neighborhood that did. I saw more than one incident where a group of them stood around a defenseless younger child and kicked him mercilessly.

They were not exactly chivalrous toward girls either.

True, kids like that today are more likely to shoot each other, but it wasn't altogether a "kinder, gentler" era.

 

[John Baker]

One of you had this as a tag line. I think it sums up all this overprotective nonsense, from helicopter parenting to helicopter government, (always hovering over ) especially the TSA nonsense at airports that is sucking up billions of our tax dollars.

"Security is mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor do the children of men as a whole experience it. Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure, or nothing." -Helen Keller

John

 

[John Baker]

That may be what you hear about on the news, but it doesn't represent reality.

Nonsense, of course it does.

John