91.413 and new transponder
- Thread starter WannFly
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Plano Pilot
Line Up and Wait
§ 91.413 ATC transponder tests and inspections.
(a) No persons may use an ATC transponder that is specified in 91.215(a), 121.345(c), or § 135.143(c) of this chapter unless, within the preceding 24 calendar months, the ATC transponder has been tested and inspected and found to comply with appendix F of part 43 of this chapter; and
(b) Following any installation or maintenance on an ATC transponder where data correspondence error could be introduced, the integrated system has been tested, inspected, and found to comply with paragraph (c), appendix E, of part 43 of this chapter.
(a) No persons may use an ATC transponder that is specified in 91.215(a), 121.345(c), or § 135.143(c) of this chapter unless, within the preceding 24 calendar months, the ATC transponder has been tested and inspected and found to comply with appendix F of part 43 of this chapter; and
(b) Following any installation or maintenance on an ATC transponder where data correspondence error could be introduced, the integrated system has been tested, inspected, and found to comply with paragraph (c), appendix E, of part 43 of this chapter.
Nathan Miller
Pre-takeoff checklist
Since the answer has been provided, I'll ask another question -
Whaddya get??
Whaddya get??
WannFly
Final Approach
Nathan Miller
Pre-takeoff checklist
Sweet transponder, brah
Gawd, I feel like a douche talking like that. Going back to my normal mode.
Who's installing it? Self install under IA supervision? Do you have a shop on your field who can do the 91.413? Mobile shop who can come to you? Or are you in uncontrolled airspace and you can fly (with your transponder powered off) to a shop that can certify it?
Gawd, I feel like a douche talking like that. Going back to my normal mode.
Who's installing it? Self install under IA supervision? Do you have a shop on your field who can do the 91.413? Mobile shop who can come to you? Or are you in uncontrolled airspace and you can fly (with your transponder powered off) to a shop that can certify it?
WannFly
Final Approach
The avionics shop close by... the plane is there for other stuff (the dumb upgrade project that i posted) already and my 2 year is not even due .. well its due now but when i flew in it was not due. i am in controlled environment, i guess i can ask for a takeoff without transponder if i needed to..
I dont use the shop in my field (unless i absolutely have to), they are used to working on biz jets and charges similar amounts for spam can as well. I can put in the time to do it and they will allow me to wrench if i wanted to... unfortunately the day job comes in the way and more importantly i am fairly lazy
Yeah just get the check done on it, takes all of 15 minutes to do.
gacoon
Pre-takeoff checklist
I cant believe a shop would sell you and install a new device without all the required checks and logbook entries. I would call them on it.
Greg Bockelman
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I thought the same thing. Check your logbook. It might have already been done as part as the installation.
Let'sgoflying!
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My installer did not have the equipment, time or interest in the testing. But he did an outstanding job at a great price! (345)
(if you figure out how to adjust the internal lighting I'd be interested)
(if you figure out how to adjust the internal lighting I'd be interested)
Note that transponder swaps, EVEN if it's just a slide-in replacement, is not a LEGAL owner-performed task.
Nathan Miller
Pre-takeoff checklist
I never had to do one in the first place.
Nobody has suggested otherwise.
bnt83
Final Approach
That was never a regulatory requirement anyway, that was a rebate qualification requirement. Perhaps some equipment have an ops check flight written into the installation manual but not the equipment I used.
The ICA for that particular system should define what needs to be accomplished to RTS after dinking with it post initial install.
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Interesting. So you don't have to recheck the performance requirement per 91.227 and as indicated in the ADS-B Memo below?
Nathan Miller
Pre-takeoff checklist
My shop used (h)(2). No certification flight here..
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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After I installed my transponder, I called the TRACON (I am inside the 30nm ring of death) and the tower at the Class C where I was going to get it tested. No problem with either. TRACON made it clear that I needed to stay out of the Bravo and not cross into Canadian airspace, and don't fly in the Canadian airspace, and stay out of the Canadian airspace, and be real sure not to cross the border. Seriously.
ISU_Radar
Pre-Flight
When my 345 was installed ( a little over a month ago ) the shop definitely did all of the required checks and logbook sign offs as part of the install. I agree with others to double check your log books.
Nathan Miller
Pre-takeoff checklist
bnt83
Final Approach
As does almost every other shop... Test flights are not required
bnt83
Final Approach
You said "re certification flight" the flights were never mandatory as all parameters can be tested on the ground with the appropriate tools..
It was required to operate them on a flight in "rule airspace" to receive rebates.
My bad. Wrong wording. Meant "performance" flight. So to clarify, if replacing a xspndr or ADS-B the shop will usually use a ramp tester for the ADS-B 91.227 performance check? What if I were to replace a Skybeacon, could I still comply with a performance check flight as I do not have any ramp test equipment?
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe
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I think the FAA officially calls it the "Mode C veil", but... RoD sounds better.
thomasdr72
Pre-takeoff checklist
So... Part 43 Appendix F says the 91.413 check on a transponder can be done with the unit on the test bench.
And, the 91.227 check can done during a 91.407(b) test flight IAW para H(1) above...
-but-
Of course, it's still not a "Preventive Maintenance" task as per FAR 43, Appendix A. So, you are required to retain the services of an appropriately rated individual... And that individual will always always be required to take credit for the maintenance actions that they perform by making entries in your logbook.
And even so, won't satisfy the IFR requirements under 91.411, but that isn't necessarily what the OP was asking anyway.
V/r,
And, the 91.227 check can done during a 91.407(b) test flight IAW para H(1) above...
-but-
Of course, it's still not a "Preventive Maintenance" task as per FAR 43, Appendix A. So, you are required to retain the services of an appropriately rated individual... And that individual will always always be required to take credit for the maintenance actions that they perform by making entries in your logbook.
And even so, won't satisfy the IFR requirements under 91.411, but that isn't necessarily what the OP was asking anyway.
V/r,
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WannFly
Final Approach
Interesting Q. The way I read it is, you have to go do the performance test flight, show the results to the proper rated person to get a sign off. I am not sure if that person can be AP/IA. Can it?
The interesting part of the question is that there is plenty of guidance on the initial install of an ADS-B system, but "none" on if you replace a separate ADS-B OUT item like a Skybeacon. For example, once a Skybeacon is installed initially the alteration is signed off by an IA. If the beacon breaks afterwards it falls under Part 43 maintenance as a parts replacement where an AP can perform it. While my original question was wrong, since part 91.227 is a "performance" requirement one would think the AP would have to note the replacement beacon conformed. Hence the refined question.