#%@*!!! .... $$$$

txflyer said:
Can throttling over chocks collapse the nose gear like that? I wouldn't think so... they're not that big....?
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I don't think the pilot was throttling over chocks since the props are swept back like the engines weren't producing much power.
 
Everskyward said:
I don't think the pilot was throttling over chocks since the props are swept back like the engines weren't producing much power.
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Yeah, my guess was that it collapsed on landing.
 
Immediately prior?

txflyer said:
It is not a home field craft, so we don't know how frequently it was flown.

Rumor has it, the actuator's were recently worked on..... :dunno:
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I'm wondering what happens now. I don't think our local guy is going to fix this plane.

How will they get it out of here?
 
txflyer said:
It happened on the tie down ramp. After they got out and came back from what I understand.
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So you're saying they got in, started the engines, then the nosegear collapsed?
 
That's almost exactly the way the local saga started, prior to the discovery of the actuator dimension issues. This one may be different, but much to early to call.

txflyer said:
Not sure. Just heard 'recently.' :dunno:

A&P said he's glad he's not the one who worked on it.
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dell30rb said:
Nosegear collapses happen.
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Yep, they do. We recently had a training school Seneca at our little field that looked much like this. Sat there for months and months. Messed up nose gear, bent props, I figured salvage based on the overall condition and avionics. They did patch it up and fly it off the field though, but I guess it could have been the salvage guys?
 
Dav8or said:
Yep, they do. We recently had a training school Seneca at our little field that looked much like this. Sat there for months and months. Messed up nose gear, bent props, I figured salvage based on the overall condition and avionics. They did patch it up and fly it off the field though, but I guess it could have been the salvage guys?
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Most likely whomever bought it from the insurance.
 
If it rolled forward up one chock and then rolled back with the over-center lock askew, the failure mode would have been more predictable as it's been explained here.QUOTE=Everskyward;1259534]So you're saying they got in, started the engines, then the nosegear collapsed?[/QUOTE]
 
txflyer said:
I'm wondering what happens now. I don't think our local guy is going to fix this plane.

How will they get it out of here?
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Getting it ferryable shouldn't be too difficult of a job. Two props, prop the nose back up, fix what's damaged up there, and then fly it to wherever will do the engine teardown inspection, or wherever will pull the engines to send them off with a teardown. Really not a big deal. When our 310 got geared up about 20 years ago (well before I started flying it - owner made the mistake of loaning it to someone) they just propped it up, put the gear down, put new props on, and got a ferry permit to fly it the 10 miles with the gear down to its home airport.

A 421C is worth enough that it shouldn't be in any worry of being totaled by the insurance company.
 
Charlene had a nose gear collapse before I bought her, it collapsed on roll out, low power, they had Continental tear down the engines, put new props on and fixed the minor nose damage, good to go!:D
I know one thing about the 421 market, good B models are hard to find, the broker that had a buyer for Charlene just bought it from the guy I sold her too! :D Apparently the buyer he had couldn't find a better plane and wanted her! :D
 
Wait, so Charlene is going to yet another new home?
 
Everskyward said:
I don't think the pilot was throttling over chocks since the props are swept back like the engines weren't producing much power.
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I'm not sure I'm 100% on board with the direction of the bend being truthful for how much power the engine was making. I've seen full power strikes bend them back and an idle power strike that bent one tip back and the other forward
 
N747JB said:
Charlene had a nose gear collapse before I bought her, it collapsed on roll out, low power, they had Continental tear down the engines, put new props on and fixed the minor nose damage, good to go!:D
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I had a nose gear collapse, actually it never extended, years ago in a C-320. I never got the three green, only two, and the tower confirmed the gear was trailing. It ended up looking pretty much like the picture. Once the weight was off the nose a mechanic reached in and pulled the nose gear to an extended position. They braced it with a piece of wood and towed it back to the hangar. They inspected the engines and repaired the nose and skin. I remember I was surprised that they only replaced two of the six blades and bent the rest back. Seems like it took a month or two but the airplane was back flying like normal and I believe it still is.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Wait, so Charlene is going to yet another new home?
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Yes, the broker emailed me and I passed it along to the guy I sold it to, and boom, less than a week later she's in for a pre-buy!:dunno: It's funny I talked to the pilot this morning and he said it's the most squawk free airplane he has ever flown and can't understand why the guy is selling it! :D
He is looking at Citation I S/P's right now for under $400K, I keep telling him the buying part is the cheapest part of owning a 30+ year old jet, but he's in love with the thought of flying higher, and faster. Oh well, I didn't listen either. :nono:
 
A local guy has just spent a year redoing a 501 and now wants to sell it in that price range. I thought about it for about 15 seconds.

N747JB said:
Yes, the broker emailed me and I passed it along to the guy I sold it to, and boom, less than a week later she's in for a pre-buy!:dunno: It's funny I talked to the pilot this morning and he said it's the most squawk free airplane he has ever flown and can't understand why the guy is selling it! :D
He is looking at Citation I S/P's right now for under $400K, I keep telling him the buying part is the cheapest part of owning a 30+ year old jet, but he's in love with the thought of flying higher, and faster. Oh well, I didn't listen either. :nono:
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N747JB said:
Yes, the broker emailed me and I passed it along to the guy I sold it to, and boom, less than a week later she's in for a pre-buy!:dunno: It's funny I talked to the pilot this morning and he said it's the most squawk free airplane he has ever flown and can't understand why the guy is selling it! :D
He is looking at Citation I S/P's right now for under $400K, I keep telling him the buying part is the cheapest part of owning a 30+ year old jet, but he's in love with the thought of flying higher, and faster. Oh well, I didn't listen either. :nono:
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I've definitely noticed no shortage of demand for good cabin class twins. In fact it seems that I've seen more people buying in the past year than in the preceding 5. Wayne is probably more tuned into the realities of the market and my impression might be skewed by hanging out on the Twin Cessna forum.

I do think you're right about it being hard to find a good 421B especially. Cs are worth enough more that you see most folks put the money into those.
 
wabower said:
A local guy has just spent a year redoing a 501 and now wants to sell it in that price range. I thought about it for about 15 seconds.
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I'm surprised you spent that much time thinking about it.
 
wabower said:
It was a slow news day at the airport and the plane was parked about 50' from the glass door.
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Sounds like the time we thought about a Cheyenne. Although I was flying it at the time.
 
wabower said:
A local guy has just spent a year redoing a 501 and now wants to sell it in that price range. I thought about it for about 15 seconds.
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Email me the specs if you have them, I don't want to see this guy buy a bucket of crap, he's a nice guy, but knows less about airplanes than most folks. :D He's looking at one he can buy for $325-350K and I told him to look at better ones for not much more money and it would be cheaper in the long run. :D
 
Ted DuPuis said:
I've definitely noticed no shortage of demand for good cabin class twins. In fact it seems that I've seen more people buying in the past year than in the preceding 5. Wayne is probably more tuned into the realities of the market and my impression might be skewed by hanging out on the Twin Cessna forum.

I do think you're right about it being hard to find a good 421B especially. Cs are worth enough more that you see most folks put the money into those.
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If you look at the ads on the B's most of them have been for sale for a long time, some of them for years. The problem is they all need something, paint, interior, avionics or heaven forbid, engines!:eek: Figure $60K per side for a reman installed, and it's hard to make a case for a runout, unless it's ready to go except for the engines, just too much to spend bringing them up to speed. :dunno:
The C's aren't much better, but at least they are newer and later models have glass windshields and trailing link gear. :yes:
 
I'll track him down and determine status. Amazing number of them listed now.

N747JB said:
Email me the specs if you have them, I don't want to see this guy buy a bucket of crap, he's a nice guy, but knows less about airplanes than most folks. :D He's looking at one he can buy for $325-350K and I told him to look at better ones for not much more money and it would be cheaper in the long run. :D
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Plenty of B models I've seen out there with heated glass windshields.
 
wabower said:
I'll track him down and determine status. Amazing number of them listed now.
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Yes, with asking prices all over the place! I am trying to keep him from "saving" money by buying one with high time engines. It's hard to explain the 500 hours remaining ain't much when it's gonna cost the price of the airplane to overhaul one of the engines! :mad2::mad2: Too many out there with under 1500 hour engines that won't sell for much more than a 2500 hour engine airplane. ;)
 
N747JB said:
Yes, with asking prices all over the place! I am trying to keep him from "saving" money by buying one with high time engines. It's hard to explain the 500 hours remaining ain't much when it's gonna cost the price of the airplane to overhaul one of the engines! :mad2::mad2: Too many out there with under 1500 hour engines that won't sell for much more than a 2500 hour engine airplane. ;)
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It's not much different in the piston twin world. Charlene is a beautiful example of a 421, and 421s are still desirable to many. But as my friend who donated the 310 to Cloud Nine pointed out, with two engines at TBO he couldn't sell the plane in spite of it being a beautiful example with many other positive attributes.

But he could give it away! :)
 
Ted DuPuis said:
It's not much different in the piston twin world. Charlene is a beautiful example of a 421, and 421s are still desirable to many. But as my friend who donated the 310 to Cloud Nine pointed out, with two engines at TBO he couldn't sell the plane in spite of it being a beautiful example with many other positive attributes.

But he could give it away! :)
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And depending on his tax situation, it was a good idea rather than let it sit somewhere unused and neglected! :D
There is an older 310 sitting at KCNI, it's been there for years, maybe 10+, it was red, now it's sort of a pink color. The FBO has finally started selling parts off of it and I imagine will scrap it out in the next 12 months or so. Looks like it was a great project at one time. :redface:
 
N747JB said:
And depending on his tax situation, it was a good idea rather than let it sit somewhere unused and neglected! :D
There is an older 310 sitting at KCNI, it's been there for years, maybe 10+, it was red, now it's sort of a pink color. The FBO has finally started selling parts off of it and I imagine will scrap it out in the next 12 months or so. Looks like it was a great project at one time. :redface:
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When he donated the 310, one of the things he said was that it was like giving away one of. After all, he'd had it 25 years and it had grown up with them. So I guess I've been a good son-in-law and taken care of it, which was important to him. :)

Too many people don't realize that leaving the plane to rot hurts them and the plane.
 
Nice Citation 650's with fully paid-up engine programs are selling for less than $1 mil. Legacy airplanes are becoming yard art for a number of reasons, including difficulty of financing and MX and fuel costs. I can understand why the values of old Stage-II fuel-guzzle turbojets have fallen like rocks, but some of the nice 731-powered planes are harder to fathom.



N747JB said:
Yes, with asking prices all over the place! I am trying to keep him from "saving" money by buying one with high time engines. It's hard to explain the 500 hours remaining ain't much when it's gonna cost the price of the airplane to overhaul one of the engines! :mad2::mad2: Too many out there with under 1500 hour engines that won't sell for much more than a 2500 hour engine airplane. ;)
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wabower said:
Nice Citation 650's with fully paid-up engine programs are selling for less than $1 mil. Legacy airplanes are becoming yard art for a number of reasons, including difficulty of financing and MX and fuel costs. I can understand why the values of old Stage-II fuel-guzzle turbojets have fallen like rocks, but some of the nice 731-powered planes are harder to fathom.
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It reminds me of an expression I heard in relation to the stock market once, "Trying to catch a falling knife"
This guy is paying cash and I am trying to convince him to look at other alternatives, I did tell him to figure he is going to be the last buyer for any legacy Citation he buys. It's going to be parted out when the engines are runout and it will join the growing list of parted out old Citations. The good news it the used parts should be getting cheaper with higher supply and lower demand. But, as with all things aviation, the prices are probably going up due to high supply and low demand! :mad2:
 




Story goes they landed, got out, went in the FBO, came back, fired up, and BOOM! You see those yellow skooch marks on the asphalt behind the nose wheel? ..........u huh .... :nono:
 
I think I saw you taking these pictures today. I was leaving in a Blue and White Saratoga.
 
JoshJ said:
I think I saw you taking these pictures today. I was leaving in a Blue and White Saratoga.
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Yepper, that was me. White Escalade? I think I saw you guys. Nice plane.

There was a progressive insurance guy out there today..... could have been him. He didn't look too happy. :nonod:
 
Thanks for the updated pictures, it does show that Henning was mistaken,:yikes: when he thought it was a trailing link gear airplane!

txflyer said:
Yepper, that was me. White Escalade? I think I saw you guys. Nice plane.

There was a progressive insurance guy out there today..... could have been him. He didn't look too happy. :nonod:
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