#%@*!!! .... $$$$

This is the 421 to Varieze conversion kit.

What was the verdict? Landed hard on the nose gear and had a couple prop strikes?
 
All three actuator's still show green!

Unofficial verdict?

I don't know if I should rumorize since it might cornhole the owner and what he's going to say.... PM me? I don't want to start trouble....
 
AirDC said:
This is the 421 to Varieze conversion kit.

What was the verdict? Landed hard on the nose gear and had a couple prop strikes?
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That was clever.... :D

I guess that's those new U-tip Varieze 421 props ....
 
Its the $120k hamburger at Brenham.
 
Nosegear collapses happen. Possible he PIO'd it, but sometimes they fold up on their own.

At least its nicely parked on the tie down spot.

Reminds me of some pics a friend sent of a club WarriorII that had been pranged and went in a ditch, ripping the wing halfway off and obviously totaling it. Someone had taken the time to put the canopy cover on :goofy:
 
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oh well, let the insurance deal with it. I'm sure the owner can buy another one or downgrade/upgrade as he wishes. Beats the heall out of trying to sell it before the dual prop strike.
 
Some problems with actuator length have started to crop up, resulting in failure to maintain function of over-center lock. They think a skip off of the nose gear during landing can trigger a failure mode.
 
hindsight2020 said:
oh well, let the insurance deal with it. I'm sure the owner can buy another one or downgrade/upgrade as he wishes. Beats the heall out of trying to sell it before the dual prop strike.
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My immediate thoughts as well.

You can't give twins away right now..... :redface:
 
Really? How much difference in book value for the '78 421 in the picture (prior to the gear-up) between now and three years ago? And is it up or down?

txflyer said:
Because they're so cheap, folks are starting to see some value.
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wabower said:
Some problems with actuator length have started to crop up, resulting in failure to maintain function of over-center lock. They think a skip off of the nose gear during landing can trigger a failure mode.
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That's (I think) what happened to RJ in his 421 at SAT
 
Very similar situation and the research by his shop led to the discovery of the potential problems in other units.

DavidWhite said:
That's (I think) what happened to RJ in his 421 at SAT
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Twin Cessnas are known for nose gear issues, as Wayne has pointed out. Sometimes the pilot's fault, sometimes the shop, but often neither. It is not a superior design.
 
wabower said:
Really? How much difference in book value for the '78 421 in the picture (prior to the gear-up) between now and three years ago? And is it up or down?
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That's newer than that I think, it has trailing link gear, didn't that start in 81?
 
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There are worse things. Ooops I came in hot and the runway is crop duster length.

Dtch_02_zps468a83f8.jpg
 
Info from Flightaware database, appears to be FAA registration. But maybe they're guessing at it.

Henning said:
That's newer than that I think, it has trailing link gear, didn't that start in 81?
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wabower said:
Info from Flightaware database, appears to be FAA registration. But maybe they're guessing at it.
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Either that or it's been wrecked before and had the wings changed, maybe stolen and had a data tag swap.:dunno:
 
FAA database is consistent with Flight-aware information. Maybe you're looking at it wrong.

Henning said:
Either that or it's been wrecked before and had the wings changed, maybe stolen and had a data tag swap.:dunno:
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wabower said:
Really? How much difference in book value for the '78 421 in the picture (prior to the gear-up) between now and three years ago? And is it up or down?
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I just parrot what I hear. I don't have a 421 blue book. :nonod:
 
Don't believe all of it, whoever said it was probably doing the same thing. :wink2:

I keep copies of various pricing guides because I need them, and talk to one of the top Twin-Cessna brokers who lives here.

Average retail prices for that model are up a tiny bit, from $270k to $280k, and the transportation-value airplanes are most-always at the top of the resale heap.

I haven't looked, but suspect that others haven't fared as well.


txflyer said:
I just parrot what I hear. I don't have a 421 blue book. :nonod:
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wabower said:
Don't believe all of it, whoever said it was probably doing the same thing. :wink2:

I keep copies of various pricing guides because I need them, and talk to one of the top Twin-Cessna brokers who lives here.

Average retail prices for that model are up a tiny bit, from $270k to $280k, and the transportation-value airplanes are most-always at the top of the resale heap.

I haven't looked, but suspect that others haven't fared as well.
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A broker was telling me that twin comanches are a steal, and a heck of a deal according to him. :dunno:

The fuel burn on the twin comanches comes in right around a big single for both engines combined he was saying ... .
 
txflyer said:
A broker was telling me that twin comanches are a steal, and a heck of a deal according to him. :dunno:

The fuel burn on the twin comanches comes in right around a big single for both engines combined he was saying ... .
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Twin prices have been generally pretty low over the past 6 years that I've been looking at them. I haven't really notice them change a ton over that time, but Wayne knows, and the top Twin Cessna broker who Wayne referred to (and who I know as well) know knows better what the trends have been.

When you look at a Twin Comanche vs. a 421, they are very different airplanes. Figure the 421 costs roughly 2.5-3x per hour to operate vs. a Twinkie. They are also designed to serve much different missions. The 421 is more than anything about passenger comfort. Pressurization, turbos, geared engines, and a spacious cabin all contribute to that. The Twinkie is all about efficiency. A lightweight plane, small engines, and smaller cabin all contribute to that.

Personally, I think 310s are the best deals out there right now, but I might be biased.
 
Assuming that picture was taken today with its FlightAware, interesting to see that it apparently flew rarely and then flew down VFR.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Twin Cessnas are known for nose gear issues, as Wayne has pointed out. Sometimes the pilot's fault, sometimes the shop, but often neither. It is not a superior design.
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Not actually a design fault but a maintenance maintainer fault. The gear inspection for the 300/400 series Cessna is a long procedure and one of the parts is getting beneath the pilots floorboard and inspecting the linkage. Since this is a difficult area to access and time consuming, as well as the mechanics who are only interested in putting the plane on jacks and "swinging the gear" it gets overlooked and over time will weaken from lack of maintenance.
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Assuming that picture was taken today with its FlightAware, interesting to see that it apparently flew rarely and then flew down VFR.
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I'll come back and delete this post if y'all think I should, but FYI, there were some chocks under the nose of that plane that magically vanished according to one source I trust. :dunno:

Can throttling over chocks collapse the nose gear like that? I wouldn't think so... they're not that big....?
 
RotorAndWing said:
Not actually a design fault but a maintenance maintainer fault. The gear inspection for the 300/400 series Cessna is a long procedure and one of the parts is getting beneath the pilots floorboard and inspecting the linkage. Since this is a difficult area to access and time consuming, as well as the mechanics who are only interested in putting the plane on jacks and "swinging the gear" it gets overlooked and over time will weaken from lack of maintenance.
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Depends on how you look at it. I agree that if properly maintained then it shouldn't matter, but when was the last time you heard about a Baron or Aztec/Navajo having a nosegear issue compared to a Twin Cessna?

Personally, I think there's a bit of both. The design isn't as good, but shouldn't break if taken good care of. I still am more careful about where I take the 310 vs. the Aztec, even though I take good care of the 310's gear.

txflyer said:
I'll come back and delete this post if y'all think I should, but FYI, there were some chocks under the nose of that plane that magically vanished according to one source I trust. :dunno:

Can throttling over chocks collapse the nose gear like that? I wouldn't think so... they're not that big....?
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I don't think you should delete it at all, nor do I think there's anything suspicious. It just makes me wonder how frequently the plane was flown.
 
I've owned both a Twink and 421 and agree with Ted. Other than having two motors, not much else in common. In fact, a Piper Malibu is a much better comp to a 421.

txflyer said:
A broker was telling me that twin comanches are a steal, and a heck of a deal according to him. :dunno:

The fuel burn on the twin comanches comes in right around a big single for both engines combined he was saying ... .
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Hmmm. Now that you mention it, it does look like two scuffed-up spots on the pavement directly in front of each nacelle. Coincidence?
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Depends on how you look at it. I agree that if properly maintained then it shouldn't matter, but when was the last time you heard about a Baron or Aztec/Navajo having a nosegear issue compared to a Twin Cessna?

Personally, I think there's a bit of both. The design isn't as good, but shouldn't break if taken good care of. I still am more careful about where I take the 310 vs. the Aztec, even though I take good care of the 310's gear.



I don't think you should delete it at all, nor do I think there's anything suspicious. It just makes me wonder how frequently the plane was flown.
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It is not a home field craft, so we don't know how frequently it was flown.

Rumor has it, the actuator's were recently worked on..... :dunno:
 
Ted DuPuis said:
Personally, I think there's a bit of both. The design isn't as good, but shouldn't break if taken good care of.
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Added point: a good design also includes good maintainability. When I'm involved in a design, one of the things I'm concerned with is maintainability and whether or not the person turning the wrench is likely to screw it up or not. It's a big enough deal that it's brought up in design reviews.
 
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