EppyGA
Touchdown! Greaser!
And after the pat down they say something about a drug test!
6 Year Old gets TSA Pat Down
- Thread starter EppyGA
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And after the pat down they say something about a drug test!
ScottM
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iBazinga!
TSA is groping everyone.
But they claim to have stopped 350 possible terrorists.
So it makes complete sense to inconvenience millions, reducing over all productivity at a huge cost to stop a potential Capt. Underpants from lighting his junk on fire while on a plane.
But they claim to have stopped 350 possible terrorists.
So it makes complete sense to inconvenience millions, reducing over all productivity at a huge cost to stop a potential Capt. Underpants from lighting his junk on fire while on a plane.
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And after the pat down they say something about a drug test!
I bet five bucks the TSA will fine these people for videotaping that in the secure area just to show they are above the law and set an example for others to not try it...... Time will tell.
ScottM
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iBazinga!
I'll bet that they do that and then have the DoJ go after PoA for posting kiddie pornI bet five bucks the TSA will fine these people for videotaping that in the secure area just to show they are above the law and set an example for others to not try it...... Time will tell.
ajstoner21
Cleared for Takeoff
It may or may not be ridiculous to pat down a 6 year old, but I would hardly call that groping. Looked like a pretty standard pat-down to me. Are the pat-downs unnecessary? maybe.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
Try doing that to a little unrelated girl in a public place and see what happens. Disgusting on more levels than I can count on my fingers and toes.
sba55
En-Route
"Maybe"? Seriously. They accomplish nothing.
Not only are they unnecessary and pointless, the TSA cost us - the taxpayers - billions every year. That's without the billions in lost productivity factored in. And they are a disgrace.
Well, hopefully that TSA agent wasn't a convicted felon like some TSA clerks. I can't believe parents are gutless enough to let these thugs close to their children
airbornejohnny
Line Up and Wait
as if everyone is guilty until proven innocent. i cannot stand security personnel at airports either. all their procedures are known, and any actual terrorist would have a way to get through. having an aggrivating experiance at the airport just fills the need for us to have something else to whine about...
silver-eagle
En-Route
You want to take offense, you should see the BS someone in a wheelchair needs to go through. Worse is when said chair is electric. Still worse is when the person uses O2.
What I saw of the pat down of the 6 year old is that the woman did the best job she could. It is, after all, her job. She might not have had a choice.
What I saw of the pat down of the 6 year old is that the woman did the best job she could. It is, after all, her job. She might not have had a choice.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
She hsould get a better job where she doesn't have to sexually assault children. "I had no choice" has been the excuse du jour of war criminals everywhere.
mantakos
Final Approach
If you're going to pat-down anybody, then you have to pat-down everybody. If you exclude little girls, then little girls become the vehicle to use to smuggle contraband on board.
-harry
-harry
sba55
En-Route
No. There's some serious flaws with that logic.
If the pat downs were effective, and if the were terrorists trying to smuggle contraband on planes, and if it were morally appropriate to subject your own population to this treatment, then your argument would work.
As it stands, though, the pat downs aren't effective as anyone with even the slightest idea about the massive security holes at airports knows. There aren't any terrorists trying to smuggle contraband - otherwise we would surely have seen the effects. And it's morally so far from "ok" that it's not even funny.
mantakos
Final Approach
My argument is "if you're gonna pat down anybody, then you have to pat down everybody". I never commented on whether or not you should pat down anybody.
The guy who lit his underpants on fire tried, and succeeded, to smuggle contraband on board. So apparently somebody is trying. A security measure's deterrent effect can't be measured solely by who gets caught. If you know that these measures have no deterrence effect, then you know the unknowable.
-harry
EppyGA
Touchdown! Greaser!
Did the underwear bomber originate in the US?
silver-eagle
En-Route
Having just come back from overseas and two international airports, I can safely say you get the same treatment there as in the US. They do not pat down everyone. I know that if the scanner tips then you get an extra look. I can also say that carry-ons get scrutinized. And as I said before, you should see what happens to the person in a wheelchair.
What choices do governments have? While not perfect, much like sobriety checkpoints, something is being done. As better technology comes online, terrorists will adapt IF that's what they really want to do. Remember, we thought before 9/11 we had all the protection in place we'd ever need.
The ACLU (in the US) would complain if any part of the society were excluded. What is fair treatment for one is fair for all.
What choices do governments have? While not perfect, much like sobriety checkpoints, something is being done. As better technology comes online, terrorists will adapt IF that's what they really want to do. Remember, we thought before 9/11 we had all the protection in place we'd ever need.
The ACLU (in the US) would complain if any part of the society were excluded. What is fair treatment for one is fair for all.
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Bob Noel
That is not always true.
For example, the exhibitionist may not mind the nude-o-scans, but it should be clear that subjecting some people that were victims of sexual abuse to the nude-o-scan or the tsa groping would not be fair.
steingar
Taxi to Parking
People overseas have not necessarily written into their laws protections of the citizens from unreasonable search and seizure. Such protections have the side effect that they can potentially make us less safe. But they are the cornerstone of our society.
silver-eagle
En-Route
You're always free to travel by some other method. If money were no object, I'd take the Citation charter from my local airport; if time were no object, boat, train, car, or bus.
What are the costs vs what is being prevented? And as you say, one can not measure the cost/effect on us as individuals or as a society.
What are the costs vs what is being prevented? And as you say, one can not measure the cost/effect on us as individuals or as a society.
Pilawt
Final Approach
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Pilawt
This cheery little TSA blog on the subject certainly has an ominous ring to it.
Meanwhile, another eight-year-old on his way to Disneyland got the TSA tickle here at Portland yesterday ...
Meanwhile, another eight-year-old on his way to Disneyland got the TSA tickle here at Portland yesterday ...
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bigred177
Cleared for Takeoff
It appears now that grandmas are now more dangerous than children.
So what if the parent doesn't consent? They have already shown that they will fine you for not completing the procedure if you start it.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20054000-503544.html
So what if the parent doesn't consent? They have already shown that they will fine you for not completing the procedure if you start it.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20054000-503544.html
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PilotAlan
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PilotAlan
1 - You inadvertently put your finger on it. The government wants to be SEEN as doing something. But appearance is not reality. What has not yet been assessed is the lack of effectiveness of the TSA and the security theater put in place.
Even the US Supreme Court precedents talking about administrative searches (airports, courthouses, etc) require that the search be narrowly focused, and *effective*. You don't get to claim a constitutional exception for something that doesn't work.
2 - The US Constitution specifically does NOT take the position that "fairness" is the standard. In order to perform intrusive searches even under the relaxed standards of exemptions, the government must have specific, articulable suspicion that this one specific individual deserves heightened scrutiny.
We have, as a society, forgotten that the government must justify its intrusions with *facts* that are specific to one certain person and/or one specific thing.
sba55
En-Route
I don't know that of course. I was only saying that we don't know that they DO have an effect. Maybe the TSA could offer free massages?
Those do have a proven effect, which is more than can be said for all of the other TSA nonsense. In the light you described, I agree with your post of course.This Flyertalk post (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/trav...8-6-year-old-girl-groped-new-orleans-tsa.html) about this incident has gotten almost 1000 replies in the few days since this happened. Wow. Maybe there's hope yet!
alaskaflyer
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Alaskaflyer
Until the networks trot out legions of happy faced slobbery morons on the sidewalk who are happy to tell the camera how they will do whatever so long as they feel safe and besides it's no big deal. Like last time.
sba55
En-Route
Very well said
denverpilot
Tied Down
They could say "Life is hard. Wear a helmet.", and let the "market" come up with solutions.
One airline could specialize in "security" with expensive tickets and pat-downs for the nervous, another could say "Fly at your own risk" just like DisneyLand, still others could offer flight training for those who suddenly realized their stress level would be too high on the cattle cars, and still others would build telecommuting/teleconferencing gear to avoid travel altogether.
"They" don't technically have to "do" anything at all beyond what voters ask for, mainly so the Congresscritters can keep their cushy jobs that blow up their over-inflated egos. Oh, and what the airline unions pay grandly for them to do so they don't have to do it themselves and include it in the price of a ticket.
[Disclaimer: I work for a teleconferencing manufacturer for two more weeks. We require VP approvals for travel and an explanation of why our own technology couldn't be utilized. Most folks outside of Sales and equipment installers, don't travel at all.]