48 Year old that wants to be a Corporate Pilot?

bobmrg said:
A potential employer's insurance carrier will dictate whether or not this person gets hired. The carriers for the corporations for which I flew wanted a first-class medical and an ATP, but the hiring situation was drastically different then.

Bob
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Very different. Seeing ads these days for 1000 hours total, 500 multi for corporate stuff.

Ryanb said:
Regionals as in what? Part 121 Regionals sure aren’t hiring at 250.
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mscard88 said:
Negative. No Regional is hiring at that level. 10-15 years ago, yes. But not today. Think it goes from 900 hours if military, a reduced amount if a graduate from a college program, otherwise the minimum is 1500 hours for a Regional job.
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They’re signing contracts to keep people from going to work for competitors once they have the hours. There’s no pay and there’s a time limit (long) on finishing the 1500 hours and ATP.

Not the best idea to sign anything until you’re actually going to go to work for someone, IMHO. But people do it. I think it gives a tiny seniority bump over classmates in the resulting final class they take, also, but I’d have to ask someone to confirm that who did it.

I know of one person who signed well before 1500 hours because they knew where they wanted to go and got the offer from that place. They were well above 250 though. Closer to 1000.

So “hired” as in not paid, not working yet, a promise of a bonus for early signing, and a very small seniority bump. If those things appeal to someone, they can sign up early at a number of places.
 
kayoh190 said:
His age won't be a problem, but not being a people person could be. Corporate flying is not just about flying the airplane - in just about all jobs there'll be a customer service component to it. He'll be required to at least fake it*.



*Now that I think about it, my ex would have made a GREAT corporate pilot. :p
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THIS.

In many cases you don’t have flight attendants in corporate. That means you get to handle the HNWIs. And money does funny things to some people.

I fly corporate right now. Some people are just normal. Some are super rich and yet super nice and respect. And at least 1/3rd of them are downright douchebags. And as the pilot, you get to deal with all their BS.

It is definitely the part about corporate flying that I like least. And I actually enjoy interacting with people in normal settings.

If he’s not a people person and not willing to swallow the pride and self respect, then he might want to look into cargo.

Boxes don’t *****!
 
A lot depends what he wants to fly. There’s light years difference between right seat King Air and left seat Gulstream.
 
denverpilot said:
Mmmm in the current hiring environment, about seven years, not light years. :)
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Im still guessing longer than 7. But, I’ve been out of the corporate loop for several years now so who knows.
The Gulfstream/Global jobs were always who you knew, not what you knew.
 
Kritchlow said:
Im still guessing longer than 7. But, I’ve been out of the corporate loop for several years now so who knows.
The Gulfstream/Global jobs were always who you knew, not what you knew.
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The video posted above is an example of that not always being true, but for the most part, yeah.

Shaun was an ERAU grad, did time in other stuff and found John. They’ve been flying that G-IV together now for about seven years.

One neighbor is part of the NASCAR Air Force. He’s a trip. Not in a bad way. Just opinionated. Imagine that. :)

The other two pilot neighbors, she work for a fractional net company, and he was flying Docs from Denver to western KS in a C90, but I heard he left there for better pay somewhere else.

They’ve both been gone so much (normal) I haven’t had a chance to ask him what he switched to. :)
 
The way to get a good corporate job is to network. If you're an introvert that doesn't like people, it's not gonna work out so well. He'd probably be able to get a lower tier charter job though, they will hire anyone. A hawker operator near me was looking for f/o's with 750 hours. That was unheard of 4-5 years ago. But the sad part is that once your buddy gets his hours, this boom might be well past.

Also, if he doesn't even have his ppl, how is he going to know if he likes to fly or not? He has a long way to go before he will have the option to choose what kind of flying job he gets.
 
Here’s a really super typical job posting right now. Seeing these weekly from all over the country.

Your buddy can find these if he looks. It’s not hard to find them.

This is a small manufacturing company in the Midwest. I removed their location since this isn’t a job board but it’d be easy to figure out who it is.

The “helicopter experience” is non-standard. But interesting.

The line about Microsoft Word is kinda... hilarious.

And no, there wasn’t any pay scale listed with this one.

This is just from an aggregator site that anyone can sign up to receive.

——

Airline Transport Pilot certificate – Multi Engine
2000 hours Total Time
1000 hours Pilot In Command
500 hours Multi Engine Time
Turbine Experience
Must have and be able to retain a first-class medical certificate
Excellent safety record, No FAA violations, accidents, or incidents
Pass background checks to including those in accordance to TSA/HS regulations, and must release a copy of his/her FAA Airman Certification Record
Working knowledge of FAR Part 91 and 135 operations
Ability to travel 60-80% of the time
Must have a professional appearance and behavior
Must be exceptionally reliable and very timely
Must be willing to relocate and live within 1 hour of [nice little midwestern town that’s cold in winter]
Additional preferred requirements include:
Bachelor’s degree or equivalent work experience
Previous experience in FAR Part 91 and 135 operations
CE510 and/or CE525 Type Rating
Helicopter Experience
Working knowledge of Microsoft Office productivity suite
 
Dav8or said:
Why not indeed. If it makes him happy then do it. The last thing I want to do when I retire is go back to work... on somebody else's schedule and somebody else's rules. It's just me. I'd rather fly and have fun as a hobby than fly, make it a job and kill the fun.
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I can totally relate, I spent too much of my life working under someone elses rules, some people thrive in that environment though.

paflyer said:
How’s his health?
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A few weeks ago he just completed his 3 Triathlon, doesn't drink or smoke from what I can see his health is fine.

Groundpounder said:
The way to get a good corporate job is to network. If you're an introvert that doesn't like people, it's not gonna work out so well. He'd probably be able to get a lower tier charter job though, they will hire anyone. A hawker operator near me was looking for f/o's with 750 hours. That was unheard of 4-5 years ago. But the sad part is that once your buddy gets his hours, this boom might be well past.

Also, if he doesn't even have his ppl, how is he going to know if he likes to fly or not? He has a long way to go before he will have the option to choose what kind of flying job he gets.
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Might not be true, not many people find flying airplanes as "romantic" as it once was. It's so hard to get kinds interested in this wonderful activity. He likes to fly, I took him up a few weeks ago. He's one of those, See it + Like it = Do it type people.
 
Here’s a 135 operator who has fleet of mixed Gulfstreams and Falcons. Looking for a non-typed FO for a Gulfstream V.

It isn’t a very big list of requirements. It’s all about the flight time right now. And of course, a personality fit at interviews and whatever they’re willing to pay. Again, no pay scale offered on this one.

So there ya go. Tell your friend to do the math and decide if he wants to get from zero to 2500 hour Hero flying whatever and whenever and he can have his “corporate” flying job. 60-80% travel and probably on call to go anywhere at any time as long as it doesn’t break crew rest rules, or bend them too hard.

He’s retired so I assume the money isn’t what he’s after. He should be aware it can be pretty low if he’s that young and retired from IBM, comparatively anyway.

How fast can he get to 2500 hours? Or more importantly 1500 multi? That’s up to him.

Will this hiring be here in a couple of years if he goes REALLY fast and spends a LOT of money? Nobody knows.

Probably better odds than flipping a coin right now with airline retirements and growth combined.

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Minimum requirements:
At least 2500 hours Total Time (Fixed Wing)
1500 hours Multi-Engine time
FAA 1st Class Medical
Valid Passport
Ability to obtain and maintain CANPASS authorization for unrestricted travel to/from Canada as a commercial pilot.
Compliant with ICAO Annex I – 2.1.10 as it pertains to aircraft engaged in international commercial air transport operations with more than one pilot
 
If it was me, 80K you can buy a nicely equipped airplane and at least resell it and get HALF your money back...lol
 
FloridaPilot said:
He retired from IBM but always wanted to learn how to fly so he wanted to fly as a corporate pilot. I thought it would be difficult at his age to get hired. So how would he take the trek can he purchase his own plane
to make the hours? I don't think he wants to be a CFI. He is NOT a people person...like I am :)
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It might be tough if he's not a people person, since it's a customer service job as much as a technical one. I'm not the most outgoing, chatty, person in the world, but I can be friendly and helpful when required, without too much effort.

If he's retired at 48, he must have been successful at his job. How is he going to like starting over at the bottom of the food chain? Only he can answer some of these questions, certainly we on the internet, who don't know him, can't.

On the other hand, he's not too old at 48. And if that was his dream, and he can afford it, then he should go for it.
 
Velocity173 said:
Dick Karl got burnt out on that job also. He enjoyed the experience but sure seemed to indicate that being on callall the time and catering (emptying chitter) to pax got old. Don’t think I could do it unless I really needed a job.
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Without his saying so in any form, I got the impression he realized the exacting job of being PIC in a jet was bumping him against personal limits that had been established long ago, and the added responsibility of carrying passengers made that realization even more acute. He weighed his age and skills against the demands and was found wanting. However, this was a mere undertone in his columns and never expressed outright.

He also intimated about but didn't expand on feelings he was cheating his wife out of years promised to her long ago, years that were supposed to be shared once the pressure cooker life of a cancer surgeon and department head at a large university hospital was over.

I always enjoyed his columns. With a bit of investigation, I discovered he wrote his first published Flying piece in July 1998, twenty years ago. How does time escape our grasp so easily?

EDIT: Date calculation correction. Lost my place in the space-time continuum
 
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3393RP said:
I always enjoyed his columns. With a bit of investigation, I discovered he wrote his first published Flying piece in July 1998, thirty years ago. How does time escape our grasp so easily?
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Hang on now, 1998 was only 20 years ago. No need to make us feel older than we really are.
 
3393RP said:
I'm pretty sure the fact Karl was a Flying columnist had everything to do with him scoring a position as a FO and later captain between the ages of 68 and 72.

JetSuite received a lot of free ink during his employment there.
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He wrote about how he finally landed an interview, after many rejections, in a column. I don't recall it had anything to do with being a columnist, but there was a well timed coincidental phone call reference or something that clinched it.
 
Yeah it goes fast when you add incorrectly. It’s not 2028 yet.
 
bobmrg said:
One of the most boring parts of corporate flying is waiting...sitting in a pilot lounge readin newspapers and magazines that you read on the last two trips while your passengers are in meetings and three-martini lunches. Oh, and there is the “We’ll be back at the airport at 4Pm; be ready to go...”. At 8PM you are still waiting; the IFR flight plan you filed expired hours ago, and SURPRISE!! When your passengers return they have changed their plans.

It is not unalloyed joy.

Bob
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You forgot the part about the endless Snickers-bar & Diet-Coke-from-the-FBO-vending-machine pilot lunches.:)
 
Everskyward said:
It might be tough if he's not a people person, since it's a customer service job as much as a technical one. I'm not the most outgoing, chatty, person in the world, but I can be friendly and helpful when required, without too much effort.

If he's retired at 48, he must have been successful at his job. How is he going to like starting over at the bottom of the food chain? Only he can answer some of these questions, certainly we on the internet, who don't know him, can't.

On the other hand, he's not too old at 48. And if that was his dream, and he can afford it, then he should go for it.
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Cobol, Pascal and C++ Programmer been with IBM for 30 years.

mscard88 said:
View attachment 66032
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Why do you say that? Is there a better way to get your hours?
 
This may or may not be completely relevant to this thread, but I thought I'd share. As many know I am thinking about switching careers myself (engineer -> pilot). One thing I have done is tried to talk to as many pilots (corporate/airlines/cargo/etc) as possible. I have a list of questions I have compiled that I usually ask, which helps me get a feel for what their career has been like.

I had a phone conversation about a week ago with a guy I met over on APC. Like me, he was an engineer in the aerospace industry and was miserable (for a list of reasons - many of which I share). He made the jump and he said it was the best thing he ever did. He made the jump in 2007 (right before the economic downturn). He is now flying for FedEx - in fact, him and his wife just volunteered to go to Germany for 2 years. He gets a hell of a housing allowance (like more than my monthly pay LOL - he can pocket whatever he doesn't use) in addition to his normal pay. His career path was flight instructor -> King Air -> SkyWest -> FedEx. He did all this in a 10 year time span. I've really enjoyed talking with pilots. I've yet to talk to any who regretted the career or had negative things to say about it in general. Sure it isn't all rainbows and unicorns all the time. The guy I talked to last said you typically get the disgruntled vocal minority over on APC - so be careful over there.

Anyways...I would say go for it! Especially if he is retired.
 
CC268 said:
I've yet to talk to any who regretted the career or had negative things to say about it in general. Sure it isn't all rainbows and unicorns all the time. The guy I talked to last said you typically get the disgruntled vocal minority over on APC - so be careful over there.
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You probably weren't talking to anyone 10 years ago. I'm not picking on you by any means, just pointing out that this industry is and has always been very cyclical. Right now is a huge boom. But we have had booms before. And a whole lot of busts.

People are very upbeat now because pay is finally starting to rise and people are seeing a genuine path to progression both the the left seat and to majors. Those things didn't exist much 10 years ago.

10 years ago there were a ton of miserable pilots.
 
Fearless Tower said:
You probably weren't talking to anyone 10 years ago. I'm not picking on you by any means, just pointing out that this industry is and has always been very cyclical. Right now is a huge boom. But we have had booms before. And a whole lot of busts.

People are very upbeat now because pay is finally starting to rise and people are seeing a genuine path to progression both the the left seat and to majors. Those things didn't exist much 10 years ago.

10 years ago there were a ton of miserable pilots.
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No I wasn't talking to anyone 10 years ago ha. I was in high school then. But this fella did start his career 10 years ago. I know better than to post anything positive about flying careers because it typically ends in a beat down haha. The reality is that many industries are cyclical - aerospace as whole certainly is. Pilot's are not the only ones who are affected by it, although pilots can certainly see some of the worst of it, unfortunately. I work in the aerospace industry (space specifically) and I've been through a furlough and a handful of layoffs in the past 3 years. A few years back they laid off a bunch of engineers across all US sites, only to turn around and hire a bunch of folks down in Mexico, India, and other high growth regions. I'm currently working overtime so that upper management can hire more people outside of the US (they use our overtime to justify the hiring of more people - except they don't hire here they hire elsewhere lol). Just wait till they start sending all our engineering jobs overseas. We had a VP say that we can train engineers all over the world to do the same thing you guys do.

My point is, this type of BS happens across all industries, all career types, etc. There's no guarantees in life, but I won't be one of these guys who sits in a cube for the next 40 years because someone told me it was the "easy" or "safe" route. I probably should stop posting about it though lol
 
CC268 said:
No I wasn't talking to anyone 10 years ago ha. I was in high school then. But this fella did start his career 10 years ago.
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He started learning at the right time, when people were very negative about the industry. @Fearless Tower is correct. The industry is cyclical. People tend to forget the bad times when things are good, and vice versa. This goes double for younger people who weren't around for the other side of the cycle. Timing is everything.
 
Everskyward said:
He started learning at the right time, when people were very negative about the industry. @Fearless Tower is correct. The industry is cyclical. People tend to forget the bad times when things are good, and vice versa. This goes double for younger people who weren't around for the other side of the cycle. Timing is everything.
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I do understand. I wasn't trying to undermine those who have been there.
 
CC268 said:
I do understand. I wasn't trying to undermine those who have been there.
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And I wasn't trying to discourage people from trying. Just letting them know there is another side to the story than the situation now. I knew plenty of people who hit the wrong side of the cycle. In fact I did too, only I was with a company that managed to survive. How, I'm not sure.
 
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3393RP said:
Wow, prices have gone up quite a bit in the last decade.

My nephew went to ATP in 2007 when he was 23. The cost was right around $40K. He made captain at JetBlue six months ago.
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Yowzers. No kidding. It was ~$30-50k when I was looking at it back in summer of 2001. Then after early September, the whole market tanked and kaboshed those dreams.
 
I'm thinking the Aviation job market is a reflection of what is going on in the economy. When the economy busts, (And it will, don't fool yourself) The Aviation jobs go along with it, people stop traveling and companies want to save so they will go with teleconferencing.
 
FloridaPilot said:
I'm thinking the Aviation job market is a reflection of what is going on in the economy. When the economy busts, (And it will, don't fool yourself) The Aviation jobs go along with it, people stop traveling and companies want to save so they will go with teleconferencing.
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Recessions do take their toll.
But teleconferencing is something that I've heard about for at least 25 years. Still waiting for the just-around-the-corner mass adoption, LOL. It'll never take over from face to face imo. Human nature just doesn't change.
Just look at the appeal and proliferation of low cost airlines.
 
GRG55 said:
Recessions do take their toll.
But teleconferencing is something that I've heard about for at least 25 years. Still waiting for the just-around-the-corner mass adoption, LOL. It'll never take over from face to face imo. Human nature just doesn't change.
Just look at the appeal and proliferation of low cost airlines.
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It already happened. Millions of people conference call every day. Automated. When I started in that biz I was and we still had thousands of conference operators. Most earnings releases, the majority of investors aren’t present in the room anymore, they’re on a conference call.

The much less useful version is with video. Nobody needs to see the side of a technician’s head while they look at a screen and type to fix something. And this coming from someone whk worked for one of the world’s largest videoconferencing manufacturers. We all had it on our desks, even built into our phones with a camera and screen. (I beta tested a number of those devices.)

We “ate our own dog food” and didn’t travel in person. We also almost never needed video. We did Screen sharing, that was useful, but talking heads on video? Nah. Only when the CEO wanted to talk to all of us all over the globe. Nobody cared about video and we got the stuff at cost.

Today at my shop most of our development teams use Google Hangouts for every meeting they have which makes it nearly unimportant where the individuals are physically located for any particular meeting.l

All sorts of people don’t care about face to face anymore. That’s definitely on the decline as a percentage of population, it’s the population rising that makes it look like it’s still as important as it once was.

Conferencing is so massive today it’s a commodity to carriers. Massive sized conferencing capabilities is often thrown in for free on large long-term telecom contracts.

I’ve been out of that biz a long time and even back then the smallest audio conferencing systems owned by carriers handled between 20,000 and 40,000 simultaneous phone calls in conference sizes up to 1024 participants. You dialed a single 800 number and your call could be happening on equipment that size in any of twenty major cities.

The smallest systems I was installing back then had a measly 5760 phone lines. One box the size of a microwave oven handled 2048 calls at a time.

Conferencing is massive. It was massive 10-11 years ago when I left for the second time.
 
GRG55 said:
Recessions do take their toll.
But teleconferencing is something that I've heard about for at least 25 years. Still waiting for the just-around-the-corner mass adoption, LOL. It'll never take over from face to face imo. Human nature just doesn't change.
Just look at the appeal and proliferation of low cost airlines.
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Very true. But the original point still stands. When the economy tanks, companies stop flying. They reduce the amount of flying their people do. They shift some of the essential travel from the internal flight dept to the airlines and the shift non-essential airline travel to conference calls or web meetings or project cancelled or on hold.

The bottom line is the boom is happening now and no one can predict how long it will last. This person is starting from zero and is going to need to get as close to 1500 hours/500 multi as possible to have a shot. Even on a fast track, that's going to take time and a metric sh**ton of money. And as has been pointed out, there is absolutely no guarantee this guy will actually like the job once he gets it. He may well love every last minute of it. But he could also absolutely hate it. Aviation is definitely one of those careers that can turn out to be nothing like you thought it was going to be when you started.

We get so focused on the shiny airplanes that we never even stop to consider the grungy hotel rooms we'll have to share with the captain that snores like a chainsaw or the 14 hours we get to spend reading old magazines and watching Matlock reruns at the FBO and eating the day old shrink wrap sandwiches from the gas station we had to walk a mile to get to just so we can get our 2.5 hours of flying in that day. Obviously that isn't every corporate or pro flying gig. But it isn't unheard of either.
 
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FloridaPilot said:
So, I have a buddy that wants to get into Aviation and wants to be a Corporate Pilot. He is already retired and 48 years of age. He would like to become a Corporate Pilot as a secondary income (part time) but he doesn't have a PPL yet. He asked me what are his chances of getting hired once he gets the 1500 Hours. I have no idea do you think he will?
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At my previous company, they're hiring folks with as little as 1000 hours total with 500 PIC, and they'll give you an AMEL before typing you in a King Air 350. You have to have a commercial fixed wing ticket. The job is not for everyone though.

https://l3com.taleo.net/careersection/ext_international/jobdetail.ftl?job=099234
 
I don’t see reason to jump ahead to the right or left seat of any corporate plane. There is plenty to keep the prospective pilot busy for awhile, PPL, Inst rating, commercial.

There’s easily a CFI job available. I’d think a guy could just take those 1st steps, then continue to reevaluate along the way. At the very least, he could enjoy some private flying, or push it as far as motivation allows.
 
Just took a corporate job at 42 and 600 hours sic in a jet.
 
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