430W upgrade to 650..... Worth the money?

Unit74

Unit74

Final Approach
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Unit74
I am looking to get ahead of the power curve and do the ADS_B install. I have a 430w and it is ties to a panel mounted 496 as well. Also have an iPad and Stratus 2 on Foreflight Pro. Then I thought about upgrading to a GTN650 in the process

Short of the cool factor of touch screen, is there any logical reason to switch over? For about the same price or less, I can do a 530w instead of the 650.

I don't really want to spend any money at this point, but if I'm gonna do the GDL88, I might as well trade in the 430 on a 650 if it adds value and functionality. I plan on selling this plane in a few years to go with a 180-ish knots airplane, which I have not decided on yet. I'm basically time building in this Archer. I know the ADSB should be a big plus on resale as we get much closer to 2020. Shortly after, it won't be worth anything as all aircraft will (should) be compliant.

What say the peanut gallery?
 
Peanut One reporting in. I would stay with the 430W. You can get airways on the 650 and some coolness in operation but functionally not much else. On an ADS-B input from a GDL-88, you will get TargetTrend and can track more traffic (8 versus 32?).

Your operative word was "sell". You have a WAAS unit and the 650 is nice, but not for the money difference.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
Not worth it in my view currently owning a 430 and a GTN650.
Check the subscription prices for the GTN. Know you cannot swap data cards between devices with the GTN. Personally I find the touchscreen only format a PITA in turbulence. Consider install cost and I doubt you will get your investment back in a couple years when you sell.
 
Unit74 said:
I am looking to get ahead of the power curve and do the ADS_B install. I have a 430w and it is ties to a panel mounted 496 as well. Also have an iPad and Stratus 2 on Foreflight Pro. Then I thought about upgrading to a GTN650 in the process

Short of the cool factor of touch screen, is there any logical reason to switch over? For about the same price or less, I can do a 530w instead of the 650.

I don't really want to spend any money at this point, but if I'm gonna do the GDL88, I might as well trade in the 430 on a 650 if it adds value and functionality. I plan on selling this plane in a few years to go with a 180-ish knots airplane, which I have not decided on yet. I'm basically time building in this Archer. I know the ADSB should be a big plus on resale as we get much closer to 2020. Shortly after, it won't be worth anything as all aircraft will (should) be compliant.

What say the peanut gallery?
Click to expand...

I've flown both, I'd stick with the 430W. Maybe spend the extra for a MX20 or just more avgas.


Touch screens are a nice "oh wow" but many pros like the knobs, I can go direct to the nearest field never looking at the unit, just off touch, and in bumpy air too.
 
I wouldn't. And I'm not replacing my 530W with a 750, either. I could see upgrading to a 750 if you wanted the bigger screen (and a new 750 is about the same price installed as a new 530W, and not much less than a used 530W), but not 430W->650 -- just not enough incremental capability to justify the cost to me. But if you aren't going for the big screen, I'd say find some other capability your plane doesn't have but you'd like on which to spend that money.

And yes, I've flown with all the boxes under discussion.
 
Well dawg gone it.... You guys aren't helping me waste my money well.


Sounds like I'll just do the GDL 88. You guys are right.....when I sell, there is no way I'm gonna recoupe the $20k I was looking at on this project. I'd think the GDL would sell itself assuming I move up close to 2020. I know that if I saw a plane already compliant, it may sway my purchase.
 
Why not just upgrade your transponder to the garmin 330 es,for dab,you already invested in the Foreflight,stratus package.
 
Different question, sorta....

I'm not concerned about the additional capabilities so much as I'm wondering if now isn't the sweet spot in terms of 430W value. I can get a decent amount on a trade in, so trading up to equipment that'll be supported for longer has some merit, right?
 
Avidyne just came out with an STC'd box that is a direct plug and play for the 430's rack.

This is substantial because the GTN's require new wiring and guts and the whole sh-mere all over again.

I'd look into that.
 
To me it would depend on how much single pilot IFR I was flying, and how well I could use the 430w box. The GTN series boxes are much more user friendly unless you know the GNS box so well you can do it by clicks and feel without looking at it. You gain no great functionality, except for Victor Airways, but you gain a lot operating ease. I fly mostly VFR underneath with the occasional pop through a layer, most of the clouds I fly around though have monsters living in them and I have seen what happens when you run into them, so I prefer to avoid that. For my purposes, the 430W works, especially with the G-500 to display the information. Without the G-500 I would want a larger display, too bad they don't make a certified version of the G-3TS. When I bought the GTN radios hadn't been introduced yet, but I knew something better was in the pipe, the 430W was the cheapest radio I could get that gave me full features and full functions for GPS approaches, and gave all the data to drive the G-500. If it was available at the time I would have put in the 750.
 
frfly172 said:
Why not just upgrade your transponder to the garmin 330 es,for dab,you already invested in the Foreflight,stratus package.
Click to expand...

Why spend the extra money over installing a GDL88 to install a GTX330ES and not get the free weather and traffic on the panel. Both are great. I have both a GDL88 and ForeFlight/Stratus. Going with a GTX330ES makes very little sense to me unless you already have a GTX330 and can just update it.
 
John Collins said:
Why spend the extra money over installing a GDL88 to install a GTX330ES and not get the free weather and traffic on the panel. Both are great. I have both a GDL88 and ForeFlight/Stratus. Going with a GTX330ES makes very little sense to me unless you already have a GTX330 and can just update it.
Click to expand...

I'm confused, how does the GLD88 replace the need for the Extended Squitter transponder?j Seriously interested as I have a GTX-327.
 
Mistake Not... said:
Different question, sorta....

I'm not concerned about the additional capabilities so much as I'm wondering if now isn't the sweet spot in terms of 430W value. I can get a decent amount on a trade in, so trading up to equipment that'll be supported for longer has some merit, right?
Click to expand...

maybe, but it still isn't worth it to me. I haven't been flying for too long, but IMO the 430W was a huge step from the previous gen GPSs. Although the 650 is very nice, I don't see the same leap that the 430 was in its day.

also, you could argue that hanging on to your 430 will get you to the point where used 650s hit the market. although your 430 will be worth less, the 650 will, too.
 
You only need ES above FL18, and the GTX 327 is not upgrade able to a 330ES regardless.

The GDL 88 gives you both UAT and ES capabilities.

As far as only doing a 330ES....if you already have 330 that may be the preferred route for compliance. However, you will got get FIS or TIS capabilities. You will only be ADsB out. If you do not have a 330, it would be foolish to spend almost as much on a 330ES as a GDL88 which will give you ADSB in. And it will give you all the traffic and weather on your GPS screen.

A point of note, although the aspen unit, and maybe the Avidyne will talk to a Garmin product, the Rangr will not. That came from the Rangr guys mouth.


And, you must have a WAAS gps somewhere in your bird. If not, some boxes have WAAS, but the price of the box just went up significantly.
 
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txflyer said:
Avidyne just came out with an STC'd box that is a direct plug and play for the 430's rack.

This is substantial because the GTN's require new wiring and guts and the whole sh-mere all over again.

I'd look into that.
Click to expand...

Avidyne announced the IFD440 over two years ago and it's still vaporware.
 
cheap weenie said:
Avidyne announced the IFD440 over two years ago and it's still vaporware.
Click to expand...


I just noticed it in a magazine the other day, and had never seen it before ...

They were advertising it like it was new ... :dunno:

What you mean by vaporware? It's not ready for prime-time? I really know nothing about it, but if it slides right into the rack and works, that would save a ton of money.
 
frfly172 said:
Why not just upgrade your transponder to the garmin 330 es,for dab,you already invested in the Foreflight,stratus package.
Click to expand...


I just did this too. Awesome upgrade with stratus 2 and iPad. About $1400 all in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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txflyer said:
I just noticed it in a magazine the other day, and had never seen it before ...

They were advertising it like it was new ... :dunno:

What you mean by vaporware? It's not ready for prime-time? I really know nothing about it, but if it slides right into the rack and works, that would save a ton of money.
Click to expand...

http://www.aopa.org/News-and-Video/All-News/2012/July/5/Avidyne-IFD440-seeks-to-replace-GNS430s

Vaporware meaning it's been advertised and hyped for a long time but it's never actually become available to purchase.
 
GTN gives you airways, a little bigger/better screen, interface much like Garmin Pilot App (great if you have both). I had a 430 and upgraded to get WAAS and the avionics shop gave me $4800 credit for the 430.
 
cheap weenie said:
Avidyne announced the IFD440 over two years ago and it's still vaporware.
Click to expand...
True, Avidyne still has not received certification. They have although just this week announced on their forum that they have successfully completed all required testing necessary for certification and are expecting that certification to be awarded this week. Perhaps, perhaps not. It is possible though that there will be another option announced in time for Oshkosh.
 
Henning said:
I'm confused, how does the GLD88 replace the need for the Extended Squitter transponder?j Seriously interested as I have a GTX-327.
Click to expand...

An ES transponder is one of two choices available to comply with the 2020 rule, the other being totally non transponder based on UAT technology. For the light piston crowd, UAT is often the cheaper route and provides more function. If you are a regular user of the flight levels, than ES is required. Here is a comparison:

Feature/Issue:..................1090ES............UAT
........................................GTX330ES.......GDL88
Fly Above FL180...............Required
Never above FL180...........Optional...........Optional
Needs Position Source........Yes..................Yes
Built In Position Source........No..................Optional
ADS-B In.............................No...................Yes
Garmin List Price................$4,796.............$3,995
 
FORANE said:
Not worth it in my view currently owning a 430 and a GTN650.
Check the subscription prices for the GTN. Know you cannot swap data cards between devices with the GTN. Personally I find the touchscreen only format a PITA in turbulence. Consider install cost and I doubt you will get your investment back in a couple years when you sell.
Click to expand...

Neither the 650 nor 750 is touchscreen only. They have knobs for those who wish to use them.

That said, the 430W is knob-only and, to me, that is a slow PITA in all conditions. With my 750 I anchor four fingers on the right side of the center stack (there is a nice anchor point there in my Cessna) and enter data with my thumb in turbulence. I have done this in moderate turb where things are levitating in the cockpit. It is slower than in smooth air but still not as slow as knobs. And in smooth air it is lightning fast to enter anything.

But the OP asked about 430W vs 650. Not sure I see a BFD there. The important thing is to get WAAS so you can fly LPVs! :D
 
petrolero said:
Neither the 650 nor 750 is touchscreen only. They have knobs for those who wish to use them.

That said, the 430W is knob-only and, to me, that is a slow PITA in all conditions. With my 750 I anchor four fingers on the right side of the center stack (there is a nice anchor point there in my Cessna) and enter data with my thumb in turbulence. I have done this in moderate turb where things are levitating in the cockpit. It is slower than in smooth air but still not as slow as knobs. And in smooth air it is lightning fast to enter anything.

But the OP asked about 430W vs 650. Not sure I see a BFD there. The important thing is to get WAAS so you can fly LPVs! :D
Click to expand...


Thanks for pointing out the knobs... Since January 2012 when I regularly began using my 650, I only needed to resort to the knobs once in heavy turbulence.

The finger grips work well.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
I'd either keep the 430W and get a used MX20 or trade in for upgrade to 750 but not the 650.
 
What about adding a second 430w?
 
skynewbie said:
I'd either keep the 430W and get a used MX20 or trade in for upgrade to 750 but not the 650.
Click to expand...

I have one that came out of my plane with a screen that's about to go out (vertical lines abound!)

I'm not a big fan of the MX20 because it is just a display. It was fine for its day but today I'd say it is just as good, if not better, to use an iPad.
 
I have decided to just go with an ADSB unit for now. Not sure which one just yet. Need to compare them.
 
Avidyne reps at OSH were taking deposits on their slide in's but saying "expect delivery in six months."

I'll probably keep using our 430W as long as they're supported. I paid big bucks for it and it works solid as a rock. Does the job.

Pretty soon, I can see where you could end up having just the standard T-pack and the most basic navigator in the panel, and you could have an ipad or other device and google glasses, and it looks like a full glass EFIS with HUD and "enhanced vision."
 
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